Free Movement and Time Travel for Doomguy?

[Transcending]

In DOOM 2 Map 14, Doomguy could walk on water, which should give him Free Movement

[MEDIA=youtube]7NE8fpPPvBI:362[/MEDIA]

As for Time Travel, he was stated to fight the demons through time and was called a Time-Walker

So I think he should get Free Movement for his Classic key and Time Travel for his 2016 key.

Agree(Free Movement): 3

EDIT: My argument for Free Movement has changed(because people kept arguing the water wasn't deep), my new argument is that Doomguy could walk on blood, which was deep for two reasons:

1: The first reason is that once you press a certain switch, a long pathway rises up from within the blood. Since the pathway originally existed within the blood and the blood could contain it, the blood's depth should be greater than the pathway's height.

2: The official strategy guide directly confirmed the blood was deep.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Free Movement is fine, but time travel seems rather vague. It might be via him finding random time portals and/or time machines rather than him simply having dimensional travel as an ability.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Agree with DDM

 

[Vietthai96]

Fighting through time is more like it describe him as someone who foughts demon for a really long time, constantly, never-ending. Kinda like a type of flowery language, figurative talking, it also make sense with his immortality/longevity and his habit of fighting demon

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Fighting through time is more like it describe him as someone who foughts demon for a really long time, constantly, never-ending. Kinda like a type of flowery language, figurative talking, it also make sense with his immortality/longevity and his habit of fighting demon

No, they called him a time walker so its probably talking about time travel, it said through time not over time. But like DDM said, it doesnt confirm he has it

 

[Qawsedf234]

I mean, being honest I don't see how it can't just be a shallow pool of water rather than Doomguy just floating around the top. Do any of the modern games showcase him walking on water?

 

[Vietthai96]

I mean, being honest I don't see how it can't just be a shallow pool of water rather than Doomguy just floating around the top. Do any of the modern games showcase him walking on water?

Iirc No, this is more like the limitation of the old game engine that make the guy look like he walked on liquid. In doom 2016, there is also a map for player to re-play the first doom game with the same "graphic"

 

[Qawsedf234]

Iirc No, this is more like the limitation of the old game engine that make the guy look like he walked on liquid

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Doomguy is just walking in shallow water, he's not running across it Naruto/Jesus style.

 

[Transcending]

I mean, being honest I don't see how it can't just be a shallow pool of water rather than Doomguy just floating around the top.

I guess you can make that argument but Doomguy has walked on other liquids that are definitely not shallow since some long objects could sink into them.

 

[Qawsedf234]

guess you can make that argument but Doomguy has walked on other liquids

A dead body is more or less completely unsubmerged on the same liquid.

are definitely not shallow since some l

The video you showed had them in a hollowed out area and over solid terrain.

I think overall this is just Doomguy walking over knee high water but the game is to old to portray that.

 

[Transcending]

A dead body is more or less completely unsubmerged on the same liquid.

That looks like some sort of ability cacodemons have because of two things:

1: We know for a fact a long object sank in the liquid, as shown in the video I linked earlier.

2: We know how deep the liquid is and it's definitely not shallow.

The video you showed had them in a hollowed out area and over solid terrain.

?
Not sure what you mean. These screenshots show what I was referring to. Hopefully they clear any confusion present.

 

[Qawsedf234]

1: We know for a fact a long object sank in the liquid, as shown in the video I linked earlier.

With thin boxes around it and when it went lower the area below it was solid.

2: We know how deep the liquid is and it's definitely not shallow.

I'm just seeing this as when people used to rate Doomguy's base speed as his glitched sidewalking speed that's not intended or easily achieved.

The game is just old, things float on the surface and no modern game features him with this ability.

 

[Transcending]

With thin boxes around it

I do not see this point's relevancy.

and when it went lower the area below it was solid.

Sure, and I won't argue against that. I even showed an image showing exactly how deep the liquid was, so naturally, it would be solid at the bottom. But the depth is more than enough to not be shallow, so my point stands.

I'm just seeing this as when people used to rate Doomguy's base speed as his glitched sidewalking speed that's not intended or easily achieved.

I personally find it being a game limitation to be unlikely. If most of Doomguy's body was to be submerged, he would naturally become slower which would make it much harder to dodge demons, which is especially dangerous in a map with a lot of cacodemons and lost souls. It would also make it much harder for him to not get surrounded by cacodemons/lost souls and makes it harder to aim properly.

It would overall make it much harder for him to survive while it wouldn't if he could actually run on liquids.

 

[Qawsedf234]

y. If most of Doomguy's body was to be submerged, he would naturally become slower which would make it much harder to dodge demons

Why? Just having super strength would be enough to negate environmental speed issues like drag or resistance.

I personally find it being a game limitation to be unlikely.

The issue is... well it is. Because Doom itself as a game can support having trenches underwater to stimulate swimming and plenty of vanilla mods feature it, but with those things Doomguy will outright sink in the liquid and will not run across the water.

The water just isn't deep and its limited to the game's old engine (in fact the sprites for the water are quite literally just retextured floor sprits which is why even denser material like lava doesn't slow you down). There's a reason why modern Doom games don't feature that ability despite showings more or less everything else Doomguy does in those games.

 

[Transcending]

Why? Just having super strength would be enough to negate

This is a fair point but Doomguy would still have to make sure he doesn't submerge too much and at the same time somehow aim properly at the demons, which would be especially hard if he's surrounded by Lost Souls coming at him from all directions at very high speeds. There's a reason why in Doom Eternal Doomguy doesn't use weapons or even punch when he's underwater.

The water just isn't deep

Well, I already conceded to the water point.

(in fact the sprites for the water are quite literally just retextured floor sprits

This is not a good counter in my opinion. While they are retextured floor spirts, it's canonically supposed to represent liquids, which is what matters.

which is why even denser material like lava doesn't slow you down

This point can easily be explained with one of your earlier points

Why? Just having super strength would be enough to negate environmental speed issues like drag or resistance.

 

[Qawsedf234]

which would be especially hard if he's surrounded by Lost Souls coming at him from all directions at very high speeds.

I mean... even in the classic series there are multiple statements about Doomguy wrecking armies of demons that the military got demolished by. This is also the same Doomguy who more or less soloed hell for a couple eons.

Him being skilled enough to fight in some water isn't that wild.

While they are retextured floor spirts, it's canonically supposed to represent liquids, which is what matters.

But it's important that they had ways to stimulate deep water in the Classic engine but never did so and even in the example you gave the floor beneath the liquid was solid and sank into itself.

It's just a non-feat or a gameplay artifact. Look at stuff like Quake which was 3D Doom and how it handled fighting near or around water.

 

[Transcending]

I mean... even in the classic series there are multiple statements about Doomguy wrecking armies of demons that the military got demolished by. This is also the same Doomguy who more or less soloed hell for a couple eons.

In the very beginning of his adventure, before he got a lot of experience, there weren't many such statements. It's important to know that Doomguy became more capable after every fight. Most such statements came after he was already very experienced and capable. Also, the "eons" statement was in reference to the Doom Slayer iirc.

While the idea of him fighting demons in water may not be that wild, it does seem to be unlikely.

But it's important that they had ways to stimulate deep water in the Classic engine but never did so

The exact depth of the water was never stated, so for all we know, it could have been deep, it's just there's no evidence for it being so, which is why I conceded. My point with the other liquid though, stands since it's explicitly not shallow.

even in the example you gave the floor beneath the liquid was solid

I already addressed this earlier:

Sure, and I won't argue against that. I even showed an image showing exactly how deep the liquid was, so naturally, it would be solid at the bottom. But the depth is more than enough to not be shallow, so my point stands.

 

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[XVII]

doesn't doomguy walk on water via sheer speed and not an actual ability?

i'm leaning more towards qawsed on this topic

 

[Transcending]

doesn't doomguy walk on water via sheer speed and not an actual ability?

i'm leaning more towards qawsed on this topic

Well, he can standstill on liquids and he still doesn't sink.

Also, I think it would count even it was sheer speed as the page on Free Movement says "This can be accomplished via sheer speed, by releasing energy that keeps the liquids or gas under their feet stable, or by manipulating the terrain itself to make going through it easier." Also, the literal gif example given for Free Movement is Dash running on water via sheer speed.

 

[XVII]

Well, he can standstill on liquids and he still doesn't sink.

Also, I think it would count even it was sheer speed as the page on Free Movement says "This can be accomplished via sheer speed, by releasing energy that keeps the liquids or gas under their feet stable, or by manipulating the terrain itself to make going through it easier." Also, the literal gif example given for Free Movement is Dash running on water via sheer speed.

it could be because of his super boots or something, since he can double jump and all

if not, then it's ok for me

 

[Transcending]

it could be because of his super boots or something, since he can double jump and all

He only got them in DOOM 2016-

While we are discussing the original Doom from 1993.

 

[XVII]

He only got them in DOOM 2016-

While we are discussing the original Doom from 1993.

oh, ok.

if that's the case then i agree with free movement for doomguy

 

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[Armorchompy]

Disagree with free movement, nothing says that's a deep bed of water.

 

[Transcending]

Disagree with free movement, nothing says that's a deep bed of water.

I conceded on the water point a long time ago, we are now discussing this

That looks like some sort of ability cacodemons have because of two things:

1: We know for a fact a long object sank in the liquid, as shown in the video I linked earlier.

2: We know how deep the liquid is and it's definitely not shallow.

?
Not sure what you mean. These screenshots show what I was referring to. Hopefully they clear any confusion present.

 

[Armorchompy]

You could walk on lava IRL if you could withstand the heat, so I don't think this is a feat. You would sink a little bit and then not anymore.

 

[Transcending]

You would sink a little bit and then not anymore.

But Doomguy was completely standing on the lava. He didn't even sink one bit.

Additionally, there are more examples of Doomguy's Free Movement. Here's one of them


In the video, Doomguy could walk on a liquid, which was clearly deep as once you press a certain switch, a long pathway rises up. Moreover, we also have proof from the official strategy guide itself that the liquid was deep

 

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[Gewsbumpz_dude]

I'm ok with time travel.

Free movement on the other hand, not so much. With the "unbridgeable lava ooze moat" thing (given it is the latest argument), unbridgeable doesn't necessarily mean that it is deep and I think that scan is referring to the fact that the player can't get to the final room to move on with the game without that bridge. Not that this pit of lava is deep.

 

[Transcending]

I'm ok with time travel.

Unfortunately everyone else is against it. RIP

Free movement on the other hand, not so much. With the "unbridgeable lava ooze moat" thing (given it is the latest argument), unbridgeable doesn't necessarily mean that it is deep and I think that scan is referring to the fact that the player can't get to the final room to move on with the game without that bridge. Not that this pit of lava is deep.

2 things.

1: I wasn't referring to "unbridgeable", I was referring to "moat"


2: Pretty sure that was blood and not lava?

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

1: I wasn't referring to "unbridgeable", I was referring to "moat"

Ok. Do we actually know how deep this specific moat of whatever is?

 

[Transcending]

We unfortunately do not have an exact value but the very meaning of moat means that it is not shallow and is rather deep, meaning the shallow argument won't work.

We do have a lower limit on how deep it is though, as stated by me in my original message:

In the video, Doomguy could walk on a liquid, which was clearly deep as once you press a certain switch, a long pathway rises up.

The height of the pathway would be the minimum depth but it is likely far deeper due to the scan from the strategy guide. Either way, it's explicitly not shallow and he would clearly need Free Movement to walk on its surface.

 

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