Frankenstein's Monster debunking and upgrades

[Walker66]

I've seen the changes on the Monster's page and to say I'm shocked would be an understatement. The reason for that is this thread https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2504381

I see that it spread misinformation and doesn't provide actual sources for the claims presented so I think it's time to clear things out. For that I'll leave a source so you can verify what I'm saying. https://www.planetebook.com/free-ebooks/frankenstein.pdf

Here's a claim made by Keeweed The monster has nearly been beaten to death by human, was nearly stoned to death, was easily injured by a gun shot, and ultimately ended his life by sitting himself on fire, all of which is nowhere even close to small building level. That is outright false. True he was AFFECTED by humans attacking him but he was never stated to be in fatal danger. Him being injured by a gunshot doesn't debunk his durability. For example, Deadpool can be hurt by bullets https://imgur.com/a/ZEeUY https://imgur.com/a/Q3QSU Does this mean he's no longer 8-A? No, it doesn't so it's a mute point.

The Monster setting itself on fire is also false since the book says this about the Monster's fate "He sprang from the cabin window as he said this, upon the ice raft which lay close to the vessel. He was soon borne away by the waves and lost in darkness and distance." (last page) The monster never set itself on fire.

Another false claim What he meant by crush the cottage was slaughtering everyone in side of it. If I say "I'm going to massacre a village" I'm not massacring a collection of building, I'm massacring the people within it. That isn't the case at all. The monster says "I could with pleasure have destroyed the cottage and its inhabitants and have glutted myself with their shrieks and misery" (page 162) See as he says crush the cottage AND its inhabitats. He wasn't saying he would just kill the people inside.

Yet another false claim This is shown when the monster has to burn down the cottage to destroy it after the family left, and he constantly has to strangle people to kill them, hell he had to use strangulation to kill a child He never HAD to burn the bulding. It's just a more convenient way to destroy the cottage. And the reason he was strangling people is because killing them in some more outrageous ways would put him in danger. He also killed people to frame others for their murder. He couldn't do that if he tore them apart. Remember, the Monster is very inteligent so he would be careful about those things.

The final claim is Also his speed justification is also pretty bad "as swift as the flight of an Eagle is figuratively language That's false considering Frankenstein actually had a point of reference for his claims "They congregated round me; the unstained snowy mountaintop, the glittering pinnacle, the pine woods, and ragged bare ravine, the eagle, soaring amidst the clouds— they all gathered round me and bade me be at peace." (page 109-110) Not to mention Frankenstein is incredibly smart so he would be able to accurately tell how fast the Monster was and the way he outright says it "I saw him descend the mountain with greater speed than the flight of an eagle, and quickly lost among the undulations of the sea of ice" (page 179). Nothing in that statement shows him being figurative.

But that's not the only showing of speed "I rushed towards the window, and drawing a pistol from my bosom, fired; but he eluded me, leaped from his station, and running with the swiftness of lightning, plunged into the lake" (page 242) This puts the Monster's speed at Supersonic by feats and Hypersonic by claim, not merely superhuman.

So in the end, the Monster is definitely 9-A and has at least Supersonic speed.

Edit: And another thing I forgot to mention. Even if he did set himself on fire (which he didn't) how does that disprove him being 9-A? Bigger structures were destroyed by being set on fire, hell the cottage was destroyed by being set on fire. Once again, by what logic would the Monster being set on fire be evidence against him being 9-A? Answer: it isn't.

 

[The_Archdemon]

bump?

 

[Keeweed]

Sorry for not noticing this earlier, I was planing on a making a Frankenstein's monster match, but never got around to it, anyways. For starters, just saying someone is incredibly smart does mean they can be 100% accurate or are thinking vastly ahead. I can say someone's as fast as lightning during a thunderstorm storm, doesn't mean they're actually as fast as lightning. Second Frankenstein's monster didn't dodge the bullet, he eluded Victor. Flintlocks are inaccurate as hell, he just saw his wife die, and he's in a dark room; there are many reasons he could miss (especially since he isn't a fighter, he's just a scientist (and the monster could have been shot but survived like earlier)). That's also an outlier since he got shot from a gun that was even farther from him, which is one of the reasons RWBY got downgraded from Massively Hypersonic+. Frankenstein's monster was nearly blood lusted when he strangled William, "Frankenstein! You belong to my enemy-to him towards whom I have sworn eternal revenge". Granted I found out he did have better feats, but they're wall level (killings wolves and ripping people apart). The monster nearly got stoned to death by villagers and getting shot isn't a outlier in the monsters case unlike Deadpool. Deadpool not only has like 30 different writers at all times, he also has regen and mostly gets hurt by the writers to show how good his regen is, Frankenstein's monster is actually put into danger from the gun shot and is forced to flee. And the cottage thing isn't 9-A. We have no time frame to know how long it would take to destroy the cottage, a 9-B can easily destroy a cottage if given even 30 seconds. Also I'll need some time to look for it, but there's a quote that heavily implies he burnt himself to death and the graphic novel hints to it even more (but that's not canon).

 

[Keeweed]

ÔÇÿBut soon,' he cried with sad and solemn enthusiasm, ÔÇÿI shall die, and what I now feel be no longer felt. Soon these burning miseries will be extinct. I shall ascend my funeral pile triumphantly and exult in the agony of the torturing flames. The light of that conflagration will fade away; my ashes will be swept into the sea by the winds. My spirit will sleep in peace, or if it thinks, it will not surely think thus. Farewell.'

That smoke is Frankenstein's monster burning himself to death

Also buildings burn down because they're flammable and burn pieces by piece. Being engulfed by lava is baseline 9-A, while Frankenstein's monster died from regular fire. Also to be 9-A the monster has to destroy the cottage with nearly a single hit at worst, and consider how characters like Beowulf (Myth) are barely 9-A despite having a clearer statement pointing to 9-A leads me to believe the monster isn't 9-A. Beowulf actually has a time frame, while Frankenstein's monster doesn't (and has to burn it down which points even more away from him being 9-A).

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Yeah I agree with FM being only 9-B

 

[Walker66]

Good to see you respond. A bit later than I thought but still. And I see you actually give some citations so that's a plus (note: I'm busy IRL so if this turns into a debate my responses will not be very frequent). So let's begin.

For starters, just saying someone is incredibly smart does mean they can be 100% accurate or are thinking vastly ahead. Alright. So what? That doesn't disprove what Victor said. Just saying 'That doesn't mean it can be that' is just an assertion at best and without proof against Victor's statement the point is mute. I can say someone's as fast as lightning during a thunderstorm storm, doesn't mean they're actually as fast as lightning. Yes, but once again Victor has great intellect and could be a pretty good judge. And saying that someone is as fast as lightning and knowing how fast the lighting moves really says something.

Second Frankenstein's monster didn't dodge the bullet, he eluded Victor. The Monster moved AFTER the shot was fired considering how it was described. Flintlocks are inaccurate as hell Oh really? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhw8YGRojlg And that's with a bucket, not a much larger creature. he just saw his wife die If anything that would make him more focused on the target, and he's in a dark room. A dark room illuminated by moonlight to a point where he can make out the Monster's facial expression "The windows of the room had before been darkened, and I felt a kind of panic on seeing the pale yellow light of the moon illuminate the chamber. The shutters had been thrown back, and with a sensation of horror not to be described, I saw at the open window a figure the most hideous and abhorred. A grin was on the face of the monster;" Even if he couldn't see the specific thing seeing the outline of such a creature would give him a pretty easy target to shoot. especially since he isn't a fighter, he's just a scientist You don't have to be a fighter to use guns. How hard it is to shot at someone really close and really tall? and the monster could have been shot but survived like earlier Except nothing says it was shot so that's just an assertion. And think about it. The Monster is an 8 foot tall giant standing not 10 yards away. The dialog indicates that Frankenstein could clearly see where he is and had a clear shot. There was no way he could miss and the it is described that the Monster moved AFTER VIctor shot his pistol and nothing says that he missed and that the Monster moved away so yes, the Monster did dogde the bullet.

That's also an outlier since he got shot from a gun that was even farther from him Those were completely different circumstances. The Monster obviously didn't expect the man to shoot him after he saved the girl. And how exactly can you tell he was further away in that instance? The text indicates that he was pretty close to them "I followed speedily, I hardly knew why; but when the man saw me draw near, he aimed a gun, which he carried, at my body and fired." (page 169) If anything he could have been even closer but you can't say he was further away. Frankenstein's monster was nearly blood lusted when he strangled William Maybe but the Monster grabbed William by the throat to silence him from screaming insults at him not to kill him "The child still struggled and loaded me with epithets which carried despair to my heart; I grasped his throat to silence him, and in a moment he lay dead at my feet" (page 171) This shows the murder was accidental and that if he actually went for the kill he would have done more damage. The monster nearly got stoned to death by villagers No, it hadn't. The monster also says other missiles were invloved and he didn't say he was near death. Deadpool not only has like 30 different writers at all times, he also has regen and mostly gets hurt by the writers to show how good his regen is Then why bullets, there are clearly more impressive ways. And him having 30 writers is irrelevant if he is consitently hurt by bullets yet those have him consitently tank explosions. And if Deadpool isn't enough here are some other characters with similar and greater durability hurt by minor stuff http://i.imgur.com/jDHHwW6.png (for clarity, it's Wilson Fisk) http://i.imgur.com/dF13Pt5.png https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pD2vZ28a3E

Frankenstein's monster is actually put into danger from the gun shot and is forced to flee That's because unlike Deadpool he doesn't have a healing factor.

We have no time frame to know how long it would take to destroy the cottage Considering the implication that he would crush the family and the cottage at the same time he would have to be pretty quick about it. But at least you admit that he meant to actually destroy it.

Also buildings burn down because they're flammable and burn pieces by piece. And why wouldn't the Monster burn the same way? The way you say that makes it seem like the monster would have been destroyed in less than few seconds.

Beowulf actually has a time frame, while Frankenstein's monster doesn't And what time frame was that? The link doesn't say how long it took him. How long did he fight? Seconds? Minutes? An hour? I need some source citations.

and has to burn it down which points even more away from him being 9-A Once again, just because he DID burn it down doesn't mean he HAD TO burn it down.

And since you used non canon material here is a graphic novel of the Monster trying to kill itself by lava

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nyRkHd5A...McxAmyU0koGnrh0cjXY2gwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO018.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TgssY94A...yiTJzAH5E6rHfL5rf5HttACHMYCw/s1600/RCO005.jpg

(Franknenstein Alive Alive issues #1 and #2)

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I think the OP makes sense

 

[Keeweed]

Frankenstein is a human biologist, him being smart doesn't mean he can accurately judge the speed of something running down a snowy mountain, especially since eagles aren't constantly flying at subsonic speeds to make comparisons too. Stop bring Marvel into this, Marvel has extremely strict scaling because of how inconsistent it is. And it having multiple writers is important because those writers have different views on how powerful the character should be. Frankenstein's monster is in the canon novel heavily implied to have burnt himself to death which, depending on how long he survived, a 9-B feat at most. Him being shot and burning to death point to him being 9-B because we have no time frame on the feat. I regret bring Beowulf into this but since I did; Beowulf was violently shaking the entire mead hall and it was stated to nearly crashed down on everyone, that gives us a time frame of seconds for the entire hall to in cave on itself, and he was set on fire , by fire hot enough to melt iron, for multiple minutes but only died due to his old age. Meanwhile The Monster has all the time in the world to destroy the cottage and died to regular fire. To be 9-A he has to pretty much one shot the cottage, which we don't know if he could. 9-B is a much safer option. As for the bullet dodging, he fired the gun but nowhere does it say he eluded the bullet, because Victor would be the subject of the sentence. People in real life elude people with guns all the time none of them are supersonic+. Also you said he didn't know the man was going to shoot him -

The Monster: "he aimed his gun at me and fired"

He clearly had plenty of time to react, he saw the guy aim the gun at him. If he was supersonic+ he could have just dodged the bullet after it fired, but he didn't and fleed, meaning the other time he dodged a bullet an outlier if it's even a feat which it most likely isn't.

• Edit now I'm going to work, see you all in 7 hours

 

[Walker66]

Frankenstein is a human biologist He is an expert in biology of a lot more than just humans "One of the phenomena which had peculiarly attracted my attention was the structure of the human frame, and, indeed, any animal endued with life" (page 50) Which would also include eagles. him being smart doesn't mean he can accurately judge the speed of something running down a snowy mountai Once again, you need to provide actual proof against the claim. Saying 'It doesn't mean he is right' proves nothing. especially since eagles aren't constantly flying at subsonic speeds He says that he was going faster than an eagle can fly, so yeah that should be taken as the Monster being faster than the maximum speeds of which an eagle can fly.

Stop bring Marvel into this Alright, here's DC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etst4t3ES8Y http://m.imgur.com/a/PnYsS6G

And it having multiple writers is important because those writers have different views on how powerful the character should be I already adressed this. It's irrelevant if the it's consistent.

Beowulf was violently shaking the entire mead hall and it was stated to nearly crashed down on everyone, that gives us a time frame of seconds for the entire hall to in cave on itself, And once again you don't show any citations for this. I'm sorry but you've already proven to be unreliable simply on your word alone

Meanwhile The Monster has all the time in the world to destroy the cottage and died to regular fire Like I said already, the implication is that he would destroy the cottage and the people at the same time so he would have to be pretty quick about it. And he didn't die of fire, the novel left the actual fate ambiguous. And once again, fire can destroy buildings far bigger than that cottage so him being killed by fire means nothing.

he fired the gu n but nowhere does it say he eluded the bullet, because Victor would be the subject of the sentenceThe information doesn't have to be spoon-fed to you for every single detail. And as I said, the Monster was in clear view where Victor could have easily taken the shot and he moved AFTER the bullet was fired at him. People in real life elude people with guns all the time none of them are supersonic+ These people usually use covers and move before the shooting starts while the Monster was in plain view and moved AFTER the bullet was shot. Also you said he didn't know the man was going to shoot him No I didn't. I said the Monster didn't EXPECT the man to shoot him so he could have been caught off guard.

He clearly had plenty of time to react, he saw the guy aim the gun at him He didn't say how much time he had to react, he was just explaining what happened. The man most likely just turned around and shot at him. The Monster is an incredibly big target it doesn't take a lot of effort to aim.

And you also mentioned this Being engulfed by lava is baseline 9-A By that logic you can douse the cottage with lava and it would be just fine. Except it can be destroyed by regular fire.

 

[Keeweed]

I'm at work right so sorry, but just going to quickly say John Marsto is 9-B for being caught on fire "can survive being burned for extended periods of time", wooden buildings aren't comparable to people, being caught on fire is a 9-C to 9-B feat, fire doesn't completely ignore durability. I'm not going to be able to respond just want to get the fire stuff out of the way

'But soon,' he cried with sad and solemn enthusiasm, 'I shall die, and what I now feel be no longer felt. Soon these burning miseries will be extinct. I shall ascend my funeral pile triumphantly and exult in the agony of the torturing flames. The light of that conflagration will fade away; my ashes will be swept into the sea by the winds. My spirit will sleep in peace, or if it thinks, it will not surely think thus. Farewell.'

There is plenty to imply he burnt himself to death

 

[Keeweed]

Still at work but I probably have time to respond. To be 9-A Frankenstein's Monster has to pretty much one shot the cottage. All we have is that he would "destroy the cottage" we have no clue how, if he would do it wall by wall, or if he could do it in one shot or if it would take time. Frankenstein, his creator who you say is super smart, tried to punch him to death. His, soon to be made wife, was axed to pieces. He was hurt by people throwing rocks at him, he was hurt by a gun shot and can die from regular fire. All of that points to him not being 9-A. At best he could be possibly 9-A but I highly doubt that because it is nowhere near his consistent showings.

As for the getting shot part, he wouldn't say "he aimed his gun at me" if he didn't see that, he would have just said "he shot me". He's retelling his story to Victor so unless he was adding random fluff into the story he most likely saw the aiming part. Which would make the other bullet dodging an outlier, if he even dodged a bullet from Victor.

And for the Eagle part, if Victor knew he was faster than a Eagle, why would he constantly try to punch the monster to death. The Eagle part is a metaphor, just like in overlord they aren't Massively Hypersonic+ for being "as fast as lightning", just like how the monster isn't subsonic for being "swifter than the flight of an Eagle"

 

[Qawsedf234]

He just has no feats backing a 9-A rating or that he could one shot a cottage. Destroy has multiple definitions and nothing implies in the story that he was capable of destroying a building in one strike.

 

[Antvasima]

Marvel and DC are special cases due to the hundreds of writers all having different ideas regarding how strong the characters are, and generally having no ideas what they are doing in terms of power-scaling.

Anyway, what are the conclusions here?

 

[Keeweed]

I don't think there are any yet.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Walker66]

but just going to quickly say John Marsto is 9-B for being caught on fire "can survive being burned for extended periods of time Actually, I'm pretty sure that was because of many other things listed. And why wouldn't the Monster also be in that situation until he eventually burned away?

There is plenty to imply he burnt himself to death No, what's implied is that he was GOING TO burn himself, but that never actually accured. The actual fate was left ambiguous.

Frankenstein, his creator who you say is super smart, tried to punch him to death Yes, he did. But that was because he had nothing else and was filled by rage at seeing the Monster after he left it. "But I scarcely observed this; rage and hatred had at first deprived me of utterance, and I recovered only to overwhelm him with words expressive of furious detestation and contempt" (page 113) And that was before the Monster explained his story.

His, soon to be made wife, was axed to pieces No, that's what happened in the graphic novel, he never said in the book what he exactly did. Even if he did, so what? Frankenstein didn't finish creating her so using her as a comparison means nothing.

He was hurt by people throwing rocks at him Not just rocks, but so what? He was bruised but he wasn't in any mortal danger.

All we have is that he would "destroy the cottage" we have no clue how, if he would do it wall by wall, or if he could do it in one shot or if it would take time As I already said, the implication of him destroying the cottage and killing the family at the same time implies a very small time frame.

he wouldn't say "he aimed his gun at me" if he didn't see that, he would have just said "he shot me" Why? He could describe something that happened in a very short time frame with that sentence. And like I said, it wouldn't be hard to aim at an 8 foot tall man if he was near you. Not to mention that's the Monster's first actual experience with firearms.

if Victor knew he was faster than a Eagle, why would he constantly try to punch the monster to death Like I said, he was filled with rage at the Monster and didn't have any weapons. And he tried punching the Monster (page 113) before he saw how fast he descended down the mountain (page 179).

The Eagle part is a metaphor, just like in overlord they aren't Massively Hypersonic+ for being "as fast as lightning", just like how the monster isn't subsonic for being "swifter than the flight of an Eagle" I already adressed the metaphor claim. Sorry, but but repeating the same point just doesn't cut it. And the exact quote is "greater speed than the flight of an eagle" so watch out when you put something in quotations.

 

[Walker66]

Marvel and DC are special cases due to the hundreds of writers all having different ideas how strong the characters are Yes, I know that but like I said it's irrelevant if it's consitently shown that the characters with that kind of durability can be hurt by bullets and blades. That was my point.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't see how the cottage quote indicates he could do it in one attack rather than with a few attacks. Its vague and he has no other feats that would support a 9-A rating.

 

[Keeweed]

My phone is about to die so I'm going to say more about the ap soon. On the speed I have said everything I wanted to say and you have said everything you could without us going in circles so I'll let admins or other people decide what they think about it, but on ap I don't agree with 9-A and I'll explain when I get the time

 

[Keeweed]

Now that I have time, the 9-A feat, is only 9-A if Frankenstein's Monster destroys the cottage in one to two hits or shakes the place until it collapses. If he destroys it wall by wall it's 9-B, if he just caught it on fire (which is what he did in the end) it isn't even a feat for him, if he destroys it over a period of time it's 9-B at best. Do you have any evidence to suggest he destroy it in two hits without causing it to collapse from a chain reaction or do you have evidence to say he collapsed it by violently shaking it. Because if I set a house on fire and killed the inhabitants that falls under 'destroying a cottage and killing its inhabitants' (note: not a direct quote). Destroying a wall and having the roof fall on top of everyone also falls under that category and that's 9-B. Do you have anything to suggest 9-A because 9-B or lower fall under the statement he said.

Also being in mortal danger isn't why being hurt by rocks and guns matter, it's that he got hurt at all that's the problem. If I punch you, you're not in mortal danger but I still hurt you. Frankenstein's monster is consistently closer to 9-B than 9-A. He's killed wolves, bears, and can tear people limb from limb; but just like wolves and bears that can rip people limb from limb, people still hurt the monster by punching him and throwing rocks at him, and he's still hurt by bullets. A 9-A wouldn't be hurt by rocks and people and since The Monster's feat is vague it's better to go with the low end.

 

[Walker66]

On the speed I have said everything I wanted to say and you have said everything you could without us going in circles so I'll let admins or other people decide what they think about it Really? You're backing out now? I've made a response to every single of your claim, you are the one repeating them. Sorry, unless you bring some new arguments I'm counting this as you conceding.

Now that I have time, the 9-A feat, is only 9-A if Frankenstein's Monster destroys the cottage in one to two hits or shakes the place until it collapses But as I said before, him destroying the cottage and the family at the same time implies a very short timespan.

Because if I set a house on fire and killed the inhabitants that falls under 'destroying a cottage and killing its inhabitants' Except this is what he says after he is leaves "I was like a wild beast that had broken the toils, destroying the objects that obstructed me and ranging through the wood with a staglike swiftness." (page 162) This is says that the damage would be physicaly done by him considering that's what he did in his angry rampage.

Do you have anything to suggest 9-A because 9-B or lower fall under the statement he said I said it multiple times but you apparently never respond to it. But I'll say it AGAIN, him saying he would have destroyed the cottage and the family inside at the same time implies a very short amount of time.

Also being in mortal danger isn't why being hurt by rocks and guns matter, it's that he got hurt at all that's the problem I already gave you enough examples of characters being hurt by things like that despite the great durability. It doesn't matter if DC and Marvel have more writers, it's irrelevant if it remains consistent.

 

[Keeweed]

The amount of time I'm talking about is seconds at worst. To be 9-A he has to destroy the cottage in a single hit or shake it with enough force to have it in cave on itself. A shot time frame is still too unknown. Also the method matters aswell. One punching the cottage and destroying a wall and causing the cottage to collapse due to a chain reaction both take just as much time as the other but one is 9-B while the other is 9-A. Also how does saying he was going to also kill the family increase the time frame to being seconds. If I light the place on fire and trapped the inhabitants I'm still doing both despite not even being 9-B. Also I'm not backing out, the other stuff was support to him being 9-B but since we keep running in circles I'm going to what matters the most. The time frame does matter but what matters most is the method. In the original thread I bought up the time frame because it being unknown is enough to make the feat not 9-A but since you keep assistanting it's a small time frame, I'll now say how did he destroy the cottage. You're statement about him being a wild beast actually goes against 9-A since it shows that he's destroying it piece by piece in a wild rage, which isn't 9-A. To be 9-A he has to destroy majority of the cottage in one hit, which isn't how he's describing it.

 

[Walker66]

The amount of time I'm talking about is seconds at worst And that's about the time I'm talking about considering he can't have them try to escape.

Also how does saying he was going to also kill the family increase the time frame to being seconds By them not having any time to escape.

If I light the place on fire and trapped the inhabitants I'm still doing both despite not even being 9-B Oh for the love God! Now you're really repeating yourself despite being debunked. I already said why he wasn't going to burn it.

Also I'm not backing out You backed out on debating his speed. Which I've proven enough.

You're statement about him being a wild beast actually goes against 9-A since it shows that he's destroying it piece by piece in a wild rage, which isn't 9-A He wasn't talking about the cottage, he was talking about his surroundings after he was left alone. The point of that quote was to show he meant he was physically going to destroy it.

To be 9-A he has to destroy majority of the cottage in one hit, which isn't how he's describing it Now, you contradict yourself. You say that it isn't clear, but now you say it's definitely not like that without any proof.

 

[Keeweed]

The bullet stuff I don't really care for, I disagree with all the speed stuff but I hate being dragged around only to go in circles. I gain and you loss nothing from me talking about it, I've already said everything I've wanted to say and you said everything you wanted to say. If I destroy a wall and have the building collapse as a result the inhabitants won't have enough time to escape and that would be 9-B. The fire stuff was an example, I was saying there are ways to destroy a cottage and it's inhabitants without being 9-A or 9-B. Also this conversation currently is meaningless. If you convince me he's 9-A that doesn't change the profile, you have to go get an admin, which is why this thread has been going on so many circles because I don't matter if the admins agree with you. I know I'm selling myself short but I don't see 9-A monster and I don't want to run in 20 more circles over a course of 5 days with nothing accomplished.

 

[Keeweed]

Pretty much, I disagree with you, but I'm too annoyed and sick of this thread to care what happens to the monster. You may take this as backing down, but this is a random profile on the internet, giving it days of attention going in circles when I straight up don't matter in the grand scheme of things makes this not worth it (note I think I also dragged you in circles aswell, sorry for that). What do either of us gain from this. A different letter shoved at the end of 9-.... I personally don't agree with 9-A Monster for the reasons I've stated but this isn't worth it for me. This is why I never get on threads with Weekly (because he'll run thousands of circles with you until you die), and it's the reason I'm leaving this thread. I've stated my opinion, now I leave.

Edit: I tried to get the admin from the downgrade thread to come see if this would change their mind and allow you to make the monster 9-A again, but they're on break so you should probably go find whatever admin you want to look at this thread.

 

[Qawsedf234]

But he hasn't proven anything really. A short time span isn't one attack, he even mentions their shrieks and misery which wouldn't happen if it was an instant punch

Cursed, cursed creator! Why did I live? Why, in that instant, did I not extinguish the spark of existence which you had so wantonly bestowed? I know not; despair had not yet taken possession of me; my feelings were those of rage and revenge. I could with pleasure have destroyed the cottage and its inhabitants and have glutted myself with their shrieks and misery.

He just has nothing supporting that he could do it in one shot nor any other feats that indicate he could do it in one shot.

 

[Walker66]

I disagree with all the speed stuff but I hate being dragged around only to go in circles Then make some new arguments and stop repeating the things I've already responded to. I already debunked many of your claims but you just repeat yourself and say 'I don't agree'. You are the only one dragging things on with nothing new to show.

If I destroy a wall and have the building collapse as a result the inhabitants won't have enough time to escape and that would be 9-B How can destroying a single wall make the cottage completely collapse? Shouldn't you destroy at least two? And I'm pretty sure they wouldd have time to run through the door.

The fire stuff was an example, I was saying there are ways to destroy a cottage and it's inhabitants without being 9-A or 9-B Yeah, so what? It's a mute point considering I already explained why in that instance that wouldn't be the situation. This really shows the problem you have: I debunk your claim and you just repeat it, then claim we are going in circles.

If you convince me he's 9-A that doesn't change the profile, you have to go get an admin The point of this was to show you that you are wrong and made some outrageous claims, not just so I can upgrade the Monster. And if you have a problem with me defending my position then too bad. That's debating.

But he hasn't proven anything really. A short time span isn't one attack, he even mentions their shrieks and misery which wouldn't happen if it was an instant punch They would do that even if the cottage collapses on them like that. Besides, why would he need to punch it? He could also have crushed it atop of them. It would have the same effect.

 

[Qawsedf234]

They would do that even if the cottage collapses on them like that. Besides, why would he need to punch it? He could also have crushed it atop of them. It would have the same effect.

Crushing it would be applying a constant amount of energy until it collapses, which would still be a 9-B feat since its a mostly wooden French farmer house. There's no evidence suggesting its a 9-A feat over it being 9-B or just a exaggeration considering there's zero other supporting evidence of a 9-A rating.

 

[Walker66]

Crushing it would be applying a constant amount of energy until it collapses, which would still be a 9-B feat since its a mostly wooden French farmer house Not if it happens fast enough for them not to escape. In a little time frame it would be 9-A. And 9-A is defined like this "Characters/Weapons who can destroy a room or a small building" so yeah, that would be a 9-A feat.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Not if it happens fast enough for them not to escape.

But nothing implies this. The feat is only 9-A if you stretch it to fit that tier. He's consistently 9-B with statements and feats. Him suddenly being 9-A makes no sense and he can accomplish the quote by just being 9-B

"Characters/Weapons who can destroy a room or a small building" so yeah, that would be a 9-A feat.

Only if its in one shot or in a short amount of time. Which again, only fits if you stretch the quote to be 9-A.

 

[Walker66]

He's consistently 9-B with statements and feats Yes, he has more of those but that doesn't mean that's his limit since he has never shown any sign of great struggle.

But nothing implies this. Yeah, it does. If he destroys it with the family still inside with no way to escape then it would fit the criteria. Even if the statement is too vague for your opinion that doesn't solidify him being only '9-B', but '9-B, possibly 9-A'.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think its to vague to even warren that, especially with nothing backing it. But I'll let the mod decide what to do I guess.

 

[Walker66]

I think its to vague to even warren that, especially with nothing backing it I already explained why I think it has merit so I won't repeat myself again. However what I will say is that it's not a matter of inconsistency since those 9-B feats were not shown to be his limit.

 

[The_Impress]

If he isn't exherting himself with those feats, then he should very well be listed atleast 9-B.

I think it's super NLFy to just grant him 9-A based on a quote, which is unsupported to begin with (If I in frusturation say I'll burn down an orphanage, doesn't mean I'm 9-A).

The descending down the mountain quote is unreliable itself, since it definitely isn't his travel speed because gravity is a factor. At best, the feat is his mountaneering skills.

Second quote you literally state as a feat for speed is bogged down by factors like exaggeration, Victor's exasperation, darkness, and delirium.

Also, Walker66, you're commiting multiple fallacies during this thread, so I recommend checking out Fallacies and other such pages listed as important before attempting to argue so vigorously

 

[Keeweed]

Since this thread was brought back up. Here's a character that destroyed a much larger building than Frankenstein's Monster by crushing it. She's 9-B https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Yukako_Yamagishi (not even 9-B+ on top of that)

 

[Antvasima]

So 9-B or "At least 9-B" then?

Are there any other conclusions here?

 

[Keeweed]

I don't think we've reach a conclusion yet, but I am leaning to 9-B (Walker66 hasn't responded yet)

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Yeah 9-B seems correct, I don´t see why this is still a descusion.

 

[Antvasima]

So does anything need to be changed here, or should we close this?

 

[Keeweed]

If everyone else is fine with closing this I'll be fine with it, but I personally think we should wait until Walker says something because I feel like it would be rude to close his thread without him responding.