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Frank vs Sandy (Grace)

My arguments were never really addressed in this thread still.

Don't see how it can be added with arguments still on the table
 
A thread's votes can and will be counted as invalid if arguments aren't properly addressed.
 
Okay so if I may sum up some points and thoughts here.

Frank outranges by a mile. Doesn't matter if sandy has the better weaponry if she can't hit frank with them. His sniper skills should be pretty decent since in general frank has shown to be a pretty decent shot, and was actually trained with the use of firearms unlike sandy. Sandy's martial arts are also pointless if she can't get close.

If she tries to run towards Frank in any way she's going to get shot. Especially if she goes the jetpack or helicopter method as stated above. She'll essentially be a sitting duck against a man with a sniper rifle.

Also pretty sure sandy doesn't even use inventions right away, honestly. She's much more straight forward with karate skills because...she loves karate and fighting anyways. She'd want to fight people head on more than anything else.
 
He is wrong tho. They were addressed. I addressed the AOE with the jet pack As for his other arguments. That he could do this. Which is the same as saying Sandy could do this. He could shoot sandy. Sure. But Sandy's invisible. And on a jet pack. Mobility.

Plus. Jet pack counters a lasertrip wire
 
You said one work essentially and that was jetpack, however the jetpack won't also turn invisible because we don't have any reason to believe that and it's not part of the suit. Let's assume sandy is human size because that's how you wanted the thread to be. That's a really big and easy to spot target if it's a jetpack.
 
And the range screws over frank. Cause Sandy being invisible and at a range basically makes knowing where she is impossible. His Attacks would be actual shots on the dark. And since sandy is smart, and has stuff like say, jet pack to get up close, and get up high, jotting her like that would be extremely difficult since frank is aiming for a very small moving and flying target. Plus being invisible.
 
Being invisible doesn't mean shit, I already said that, because whatever she's usig to actually move that distance isn't going to help her in the slightest. Also, jetpacks make noise, last I check. Pretty sure Sandy's does too. Frank should be able to Hear it coming and know where it's coming from.

Sandy's range is absolute garbage either way. Pretty sure Frank's matter manip gun has more range than a dozen meters, and his turrets should still be able to detect the jetpack moving.
 
Being invisible does mean shit. Frank has no idea where his target is. And would be shooting blindly

Sandy is stealthy, and yes a jet pack makes noises. But still blindly shooting at a tiny target. He may know the area he shot be shooting Should sandy get in her jet pack, but that still is gonna require tagging her which is gonna be pretty dang hard. Especially since sandy is also tougher. He doesn't one shot. And she only needs to use the jet pack if Frank starts using AOE. And even then his attacks don't one shot. Sandy takes Frank down pretty fast. Being notably stronger
 
What even is this

Size isn't equalized, no. I don't know where you got that from but we don't just assume Galactus would be the same size as Spongebob. Very few if any of Jacky's reasonable arguments were actually countered, this reeks of the classic blind FRA. Literally nobody but Butters said anything outside of "Sand(y) FRA" and Butters didn't reliably counter Jacky's point.

Threads can be considered invalid if all the facts aren't taken into account. I'm calling that here, this was hardly hashed out.
 
Size equal was removed since it was brought up an issue near the start. But the first vote considering size difference regardless.

And yes. Flight is a reliable counter to AOE attacks. Plus invisibility making frank attack blindly. He wouldn't even know where sandy is.
 
Yes but even after that you stated it was fine in other matches. It isn't.

It really isn't. Jacky countered those and in response you just repeated them back to him. That isn't a debate.
 
That still doesn't effect here cause it wasn't removed. The fights just were some Spongebob fights that Equalised height. But here doesn't use it since neither of us were entirely sure.

His arguments Is frank could shoot her if she uses the jet pack. But that doesn't counter the strength difference, more durability. Aka, could take it should he get a shot in. Note issue that sandy is flying and has better mobility and is small, making her a harder target to hit.
 
Sandy is like two megajoules. She's only twice as strong as frank that's not a one shot territory in the slightest, and Frank's sniper rifles can take down people at least somewhat comparable to him (the zombies) in one shot, so he's going to be causing a lot of damage, especially if he shoots her anywhere vital because thats just how organs and a damn gun works.

Sandy's jetpack isn't going to be invisible, is my point. That's the part that frank is going to shoot at, and a sniper rifle meant to shoot from very, very far away is gone be very helpful. Hell frank also has all the time in the world to just set up motion tracking turrets or any sort of trap to just shoot sandy out of the sky.

This is assuming that sandy starts with either invisibility or flight in the first place, which she hasn't been shown to, with invisibility coming from a one off episode and flight being the only one she might do to get close. Show me that sandy wouldn't immediately go for flight or karate and I'd accept it but I don't think she uses many of her inventions in an actual offensive way, unlike frank who does that shit all the time.

Also if size isn't equalized I doubt that Sandy's jetpack can go too high up considering her size. Assuming it can reach even past the treetops is a bit absurd considering she's smaller than a damn pineapple in-series. Assuming anything of hers can get that kind of height on it is either NLF or wanking (don't care enough to tell ya which).

If sandy is small, her size kills her in the end because she's just way too small and her equipment is far too noticeable and frank has far too much range with a scope that is meant to hit targets from far away, and her range is crap. Frank is arguably lore experienced in fighting, and has the much more versatile and ranged arsenal to go with it and a bigger killer instinct as well.

So frank has better stamina, range, versatility, experience, and instinct. And I say experience, by the way, because sandy hasn't fought in severe zombie outbreaks and killed several psychopaths and military commandos or mercenary groups with actual guns that far outrange her.
 
Sandy isn't 2. She is 4ish that I recall.

If she uses her jet pack yes. It won't be invisible. But it's still Very small, on the move, and still gonna be really hard to hit. Especially put her down considering she doesn't have to get too close. If they start super far away, Sandy goes invisible. Frank would have to blindly attack, and get up closer since his AOE weapons don't have near as much range as his snipers, Then, if his AOE becomes an issue, that's when the jet pack would come out, and she wouldn't need to get up and close cause she still has some range, and stronger/tougher. Her weapons can still cross a decent distance due to her being a squirrel, and her guns having crossed what she looks at as an entire theater. Maybe not gun level in range. But still could have a small distance away and take frank down.
 
Prove to me she starts with any sort of invisibility or hax then.

If not she's going to just approach frank. Nothing in the show ever implies she would use her inventions offensively instead of karate. Once sponge bob was threatened by a group of karate fighters and sandy, instead of pulling out some invention to save him, had to fight through the entirety of the tower instead.

Also okay you're just riding on that range then? Because Frank's one hit weapons still have more range than Sandy's weaponry and some of his weapons have instakill splash damage anyways.
 
That's literally what she did when she had the suit. And it's full arsenal. You go off the basis a lot that frank would start with a Matter Manipulator Gun, same case here

That's because she didn't have her inventions. She literally was just stuck on the island without them. That's a Cherry picked situation.

Still would have to tag her on the air. And while mostly if not completely invisible. and you go off the basis prove that she would pull them out. Yet we have no reasons to believe he would even considering pulling out guns like that to handle a squirrel.
 
He knows there's a squirrel trying to kill him and it's very very far away. Frank is the kind of guy who would rather shoot to take care of situations like these anyways. He's shown a preference for guns.

Also are you implying frank can't hit her at all? Just curious because that's what it seems like.
 
Which guns in specific though?

The odds are very against him. Invisible flying target that has speed equal to him, that he can really only identify by the jet pack and possible sound. Which is also tougher than he is
 
I dunno just guns in general. I mean in the first game he wanted a pistol but that's when he was first introduced to zombies. I'd only assume as he got older and more experienced he adopted a "whatever works" mentality. All of his guns outrange sandy so that's not important. Even the mater gun.

Also that's assuming she gets in a jetpack and not the helicopter, or, still, if she uses the suit over anything else, or any of her hax. Like I said she's shown to be much more preferable to martial arts like karate. I don't know why we'd just assume she'd use everything in her arsenal when she obviously has a penchant for karate.

Also not possible sound. The jetpack does just have sound that's how things like that work. Also frank could just overload the battle field with grenades or just an rpg.

Actually is 9-A weaponry is allowed technically the exo suit is a weapon
 
May I see a few moments of Sandy leading a normal fight with anything but karate?

Like, she leads... everything with it.
 
I will, give me a bit, I have a lot to be talking around. Ain't the only thread I'm on.
 
Actually. There's one thing I'm gonna have to check on first. Cause I know speed was equal. But I'm gonna check if that rule applies to her jet pack speed. Cause that's not really her, and I hear weapons and such or things that increase speed aren't equal in equalized speed. For obvious reasons. If it doesn't equal it. she just blitzes.
 
Speed via equipment is travel speed. If it is x times higher than normal then she'd be x times higher than normal here as well.
 
This can be removed from their pages. Or should be. And probably redone on a different thread or just canned. Since the Jetpack screws it up.
 
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