First LN profile Upgrade for MGK

[EldemadeDityjon]

If anyone don't understand why order is CM type 1. @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless will clarify further.

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Order is Concept, Laws and Fate/Providence of the World. There are many order in the World like time , Creation and destruction. Order is unbound by the concept it governs. For example. Jerga is a concept of hatred for demons that will still exist even if this hate ceases to exist in the world due to him becoming one with the order of the world. Anos can change the one of the order of the world into his own spell/abilities.

This falls under Concepts Alternations. Hence Anos should get below Abilities for Changing Order of destruction into his own spell.

• Law Manipulation (Order is Laws of the world)
• Power Modification (Changed Order of destruction into his own spell)
• Fate Manipulation (Order is Providence he changed that into his own spell. Here Providence is referring to fate you can check the scan if no one understands I will explain)
• Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 ( Order is Unbound by the concept it governs )

Additionally Venozdonor key should get Fate manipulation too because it has same abilities as Order of Destruction in Controlled form. Also one of the scans in the profile already has statements for it being able to destroy the fate. So it should be added.

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Anos himself can manipulate Concept of time With his spell Revide but he states even if that spell is not match for Eugola Raviaz Time Manipulation Sychte which created a Pocket reality and stopped time.

Eyes of Destruction Key Should get (Only powernull).

• Law Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 (Order is Law , Concepts and Providence of the world, Eyes Of Destruction are strongest anti magic which can even destroy the Power of gods who manipulates order)

Anos Also should get Resistance to Fate Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 & Law Manipulation for Walking into Eugola Raviaz time stopped world.

Supporting Evidences.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/first-ln-profile-upgrade-for-mgk.152961/post-5700505

https://vsbattles.com/threads/first-ln-profile-upgrade-for-mgk.152961/post-5700550

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Law Manipulation

Agree: @Theglassman12, @Dereck03, @Elizhaa
Disagree:
Neutral:

Type 1 CM

Agree: @Deagonx, @Dereck03, @Elizhaa
Disagree: @Theglassman12, @Qawsedf234
Neutral: @DarkGrath

Power Modification

Agree: @Elizhaa
Disagree: @Deagonx, @Qawsedf234
Neutral:

Fate Manipulation

Agree: @Dereck03, @Elizhaa
Disagree: @Theglassman12, @Deagonx, @DarkGrath
Neutral: @Qawsedf234

Resistance to Order via Resistance to Time Stop

Agree: @Dereck03
Disagree: @Deagonx, @Theglassman12
Neutral: @Qawsedf234, @Elizhaa, @DarkGrath

Venozdonor Fate Manipulation

Agree: @Elizhaa, @Dereck03
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I'll take a look at this later.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Pretty straight forward, I agree with the upgrade.

 

[Reiner04]

Agree.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Well, before I get into the basis of order itself, I need to get this out of the way. EoD destroying Ivis' time stop isn't enough to say they can destroy order itself. They're merely destroying magic that was used based on the order of time, but that doesn't mean every spell Ivis casts is composed of laws, concepts, and fate. It's like saying that, because I can nullify a mage's fireball, I can also destroy the components they used to cast it when that isn't the case. It isn't resistance to anything but time stop for the same reason.

Or, to put it another way, nullifying a conceptual ability doesn't give concept manipulation (even then, I don't think there's much basis for every god's abilities being conceptual in nature...). So, are there any cases of EoD destroying order itself directly? If not, then I hard disagree on that part.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Now for the other stuff.

-Anos taking the order of destruction and using it as his own isn't really power modification. Just taking an ambient effect leaking out of something and using it as a weapon isn't nearly enough for power modification.

-Nothing in these scans says order is fate. Where are you getting this from? Not only is "providence" not fate in and of itself, but nothing says order is providence, either...

-So uh... The thing about type 1 concepts is that they need to be unbound from the concepts they govern. So for Jerga, if the order he was bound to was that of the hatred of demons, then him continuing to exist as that order after that hatred disappeared, then that would be type 1. However, if he were bound to a different order, then there's no reason for this to be type 1. So could you please elaborate on what order Jerga becomes, please? Because that's very important here.

So yeah, order is law manipulation and type 2 concept hax and literally nothing else. Ngl, it's really interesting seeing how things taken at face value not too long ago are finally facing more scrutiny.

 

[Theglassman12]

Soooo where exactly is the type 1 Concept explanation here? Because I'm not really seeing it in the scans. Also what about providence proves Order is Fate? Providence just means a divine being is protecting it, not literally controlling the fate of others. Lastly why does Anos moving in a time-stopped world give him law and fate resistance? That's just resisting timestop, nothing more.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

So for Jerga, if the order he was bound to was that of the hatred of demons, then him continuing to exist as that order after that hatred disappeared, then that would be type 1

Yes, that's what happened.

However, if he were bound to a different order,

He isn't really.

So could you please elaborate on what order Jerga becomes, please?

He became the hatred for demons itself. When he was alive, his hate against demons was second to none, and right before dying, he thought that it would be a good idea to perpetuate that hate for all time to come even if his physical body was to perish, so he turned himself into the hate for demons itself.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Soooo where exactly is the type 1 Concept explanation here? Because I'm not really seeing it in the scans. Also what about providence proves Order is Fate? Providence just means a divine being is protecting it, not literally controlling the fate of others. Lastly why does Anos moving in a time-stopped world give him law and fate resistance? That's just resisting timestop, nothing more.

Jerga is the concept of hatred for demons, and then Jerga himself later said that even if the hate for demons cease to exist in the world Jerga would still exist, which says he is independent of the objects his concept governs.

Then the narration says the order of Jerga is only a fragment compared to the order of the gods (which would include the god of destruction which anos turned into a castle), and then Zeke says Jerga's order was lesser than that of the gods. In short, Jerga is a type 1 order and gods's order > his.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yes, that's what happened.

He isn't really.

He became the hatred for demons itself. When he was alive, his hate against demons was second to none, and right before dying, he thought that it would be a good idea to perpetuate that hate for all time to come even if his physical body was to perish, so he turned himself into the hate for demons itself.

Nothing in the scans says that, though, so could you please post the scans where he says he is literally the order of hatred for demons? That would help a lot.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Gonna take some mins because his feats are all over the place. Brb.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Soooo where exactly is the type 1 Concept explanation here? Because I'm not really seeing it in the scans. Also what about providence proves Order is Fate? Providence just means a divine being is protecting it, not literally controlling the fate of others. Lastly why does Anos moving in a time-stopped world give him law and fate resistance? That's just resisting timestop, nothing more.

Fuji called you I see
Conceptual Manipulation explanation Oblivion already gave. I guess Keywords clearly mentioned order as laws you don't have any issues with it.

I will remove the fate manipulation part from Anos and Eyes of destruction my bad.

But he should get Law Manipulation Resistance. Eugola Raviaz /Ivis created a world where Time will be frozen for anything Within it for eternity. Anos even before his eyes activated walking freely inside of it ignoring the rules of the reality.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

But he should get Law Manipulation resistance. Eugola Raviaz created a world where Time will be frozen for anything Within it for eternity. Anos even before his eyes activated walking freely inside of it ignoring the rules of the reality.

That is literally just time stop resistance, though...

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That is literally just time stop resistance, though...

It Qualifies for both. It's not just time stop. There is a rule. beside Eugola Raviaz can manipulate order.

The ability to manipulate "laws" that automatically apply themselves upon reality, referring to rules, mandates and even fundamental logical principles/truths/facts that are the way in which a reality may function

Law Manipulation

The ability to manipulate "laws" that automatically apply themselves upon reality, referring to rules, mandates and even fundamental logical principles/truths/facts that are the way in which a reality may function. The laws may or may not have been previously imposed by a higher authority within...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It Qualifies for both. It's not just time stop. There is a rule. beside Eugola Raviaz can manipulate order.

Law Manipulation

The ability to manipulate "laws" that automatically apply themselves upon reality, referring to rules, mandates and even fundamental logical principles/truths/facts that are the way in which a reality may function. The laws may or may not have been previously imposed by a higher authority within...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Okay, so he can manipulate order. Is there an instance of Anos resisting that, and not just a time stop? Because the only context I've been given so far suggests nothing but a conventional time stop.

 

[Dereck03]

I remember talking with Null about Anos' destroying the order of time (when i was clueless about mg) and he told me that he wasn't doing that, he was only destroying the time stop so unless there's scan implying destroying the order of time then it would be just Resistance to Time stop.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Okay, so he can manipulate order. Is there an instance of Anos resisting that, and not just a time stop? Because the only context I've been given so far suggests nothing but a conventional time stop.

Already there is a scan in OP and he literally walked through that World where even Eugola Raviaz got surprised. Sasha and Misha got affected that world which already proves my point. Only Anos wasn't affected. Even though at that time Anos , Sasha and Misha had same magic power due to Gyze.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I remember talking with Null about Anos' destroying the order of time (when i was clueless about mg) and he told me that he wasn't doing that, he was only destroying the time stop so unless there's scan implying destroying the order of time then it would be just Resistance to Time stop.

The point is that Silver White world will Qualifies for Law Manipulation for stoping time for anything Within it or whichever enters it for eternity.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Already there is a scan in OP and he literally walked through that World where even Eugola Raviaz got surprised. Sasha and Misha got affected that world which already proves my point. Only Anos wasn't affected. Even though at that time Anos , Sasha and Misha had same magic power due to Gyze.

Yes, I'm 100% aware of that. That's why Anos has resistance to time stop, which I have no issue with.

The point is that Silver White world will Qualifies for Law Manipulation for stoping time for anything Within it or whichever enters it for eternity.

That isn't law manipulation, that's just a time stop.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

This will be a sequence of events.

-Jerga is about to die, he decides to turn his body into something else.
-Before dying, he knew the hate for demons wouldn't remain forever, so he turned his source/concept into Aske. This caused Aske to serve as a catalyst for the hate for demons back from the mythical age, which remained existing and brainwashed whoever used Aske. Jerga's body was gone but the hate wasn't.
-It is later clarified that, by turning himself into Aske, he became part of the world's order and thus a pure concept that existed incessantly.
-While Jerga's body was gone, the hate wasn't, and it has persisted ever since the mythical age, and it is what Jerga is now.
-When the people from Azeshion (humans) increased their grudge against demons, Jerga became stronger.
-Jerga later clarifies that to kill him, Anos would have to kill everyone from Azesion, the country of humanity (because humans hate demons). And then he says that even if Anos does kill every human to end the hate, Jerga himself will still exist. His existence cannot be erased.
-Jerga states that due to his hate becoming the order of the world, the hate for demons shall persist. This ties back to this scan, where Anos states that Jerga himself had become one with the order of the world. So this means he is the hate itself.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yes, I'm 100% aware of that. That's why Anos has resistance to time stop, which I have no issue with.

That isn't law manipulation, that's just a time stop.

It's only times stop if only there is no rules are applied. Here it's clearly talking about reality where a rules is applied. That's still Law Manipulation. Beside there is clearly mentioned statement for Eugola Raviaz Manipulating Order. He is imposing a Law.

He didn't stopped time he created a world. Read the scan. He created a reality where time gets stopped. That's his newly created reality rule.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Soooo where exactly is the type 1 Concept explanation here? Because I'm not really seeing it in the scans. Also what about providence proves Order is Fate? Providence just means a divine being is protecting it, not literally controlling the fate of others. Lastly why does Anos moving in a time-stopped world give him law and fate resistance? That's just resisting timestop, nothing more.

Anos himself can manipulate Concept of time With his spell Revide but he states even if that spell is not match for Eugola Raviaz Time Manipulation Sychte which created a Pocket reality and stopped time.

It's not just time stop because Anos himself has time stop. Eugola Raviaz who has Order of Time using normal time stop against a character literally goes against narrative. Why would a character use normal attack without any reasoning especially when the narrative displays differently.

There is no reason for Eugola Raviaz to just stop time using normal method where he has Power to Manipulate order. Even Narrative Keywords clearly mentioned that.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

This will be a sequence of events.

-Jerga is about to die, he decides to turn his body into something else.
-Before dying, he knew the hate for demons wouldn't remain forever, so he turned his source/concept into Aske. This caused Aske to serve as a catalyst for the hate for demons back from the mythical age, which remained existing and brainwashed whoever used Aske. Jerga's body was gone but the hate wasn't.
-It is later clarified that, by turning himself into Aske, he became part of the world's order and thus a pure concept that existed incessantly.
-While Jerga's body was gone, the hate wasn't, and it has persisted ever since the mythical age, and it is what Jerga is now.
-When the people from Azeshion (humans) increased their grudge against demons, Jerga became stronger.
-Jerga later clarifies that to kill him, Anos would have to kill everyone from Azesion, the country of humanity (because humans hate demons). And then he says that even if Anos does kill every human to end the hate, Jerga himself will still exist. His existence cannot be erased.
-Jerga states that due to his hate becoming the order of the world, the hate for demons shall persist. This ties back to this scan, where Anos states that Jerga himself had become one with the order of the world. So this means he is the hate itself.

This mostly looks alright, but my one question is if the type 1 stuff is entirely reliant on order, or if Jerga fusing his hatred with it had anything to do with it. Because to me it seems like Jerga still hates demons, which ensures the concept of that hatred remains, which of course means his source is still there, which also ensures Jerga never dies... which in turn means that hatred is never snuffed out.

So tbf I think the Jerga stuff is probably type 1, but idk about scaling it to any other order. I'll wait for more input, though I'm definitely leaning towards agreeing. Thanks for gathering these scans.

Also, I'm not gonna bother with Elde, they're just making absurd claims without the evidence needed to back them up.

 

[Dereck03]

but idk about scaling it to any other order.

Jerga is ultimately a minor order, there are types of rankings in the orders, but so far there is not much information translated (Because the LN has not caught up with these feats), such as Jerga < Order of time < Other orders < Orders of creation and destruction < Nosgalia < Eques.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

If you mean the current type 1 feats of the verse, yes it's only from order feats. Can't think of anything else, even for the WN.

As for the scaling to other orders, its mainly because Jerga is stated to be of a nature lesser than that of the order of the gods. So while Jerga is order, his order is not divine/godly level.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

If you mean the current type 1 feats of the verse, yes it's only from order feats. Can't think of anything else, even for the WN.

No, I meant if Jerga's order being type 1 is due to it being order, and not something on Jerga's part. Because the way I see it, Jerga's source has become that order, so Jerga will continue to live. So long as Jerga lives, he hates demons, and as long as he hates demons, the order of that hatred (his source) will exist as well... which just loops forever and ensures neither will be destroyed, even if everyone else is. If that's the case, why would other orders scale to that?

So while that specific instance is probably type 1, I think it's too reliant on external stuff to say every other order is type 1. I think being stated as "second only to the gods" is a bit too vague to be scalable in this way.

Like I said though, I'm neutral but leaning agree.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Jerga is ultimately a minor order, there are types of rankings in the orders, but so far there is not much information translated (Because the LN has not caught up with these feats), such as Jerga < Order of time < Other orders < Orders of creation and destruction < Nosgalia < Eques.

Jerga < Order of time < Other orders < Nosgalia < Orders of creation and destruction < Eques.

 

[Dereck03]

Jerga < Order of time < Other orders < Nosgalia < Orders of creation and destruction < Eques.

Yes I just remembered that this is true I was going to fix it but thanks for clarifying it.

 

[Fixxed]

Jerga is ultimately a minor order, there are types of rankings in the orders, but so far there is not much information translated (Because the LN has not caught up with these feats), such as Jerga < Order of time < Other orders < Orders of creation and destruction < Nosgalia < Eques.

Honestly creation and destruction>>nousgalia

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

No, I meant if Jerga's order being type 1 is due to it being order, and not something on Jerga's part. Because the way I see it, Jerga's source has become that order, so Jerga will continue to live. So long as Jerga lives, he hates demons, and as long as he hates demons, the order of that hatred (his source) will exist as well... which just loops forever and ensures neither will be destroyed, even if everyone else is. If that's the case, why would other orders scale to that?

So while that specific instance is probably type 1, I think it's too reliant on external stuff to say every other order is type 1. I think being stated as "second only to the gods" is a bit too vague to be scalable in this way.

Like I said though, I'm neutral but leaning agree.

Technically true, we don't know if he displays type 1 properties exactly because he turned into order, but nevertheless he is still a type 1 order from which the gods' order are considered above it. So while Jerga's shenanigans by itself wouldn't be solid to consider every godly order type 1, I think his case coupled with Zeke's statement seems reasonable to consider it that way. Well, I think it's just a matter of agreeing to disagree and letting other people voice their votes/matters at this point, so I think I will leave it to that, unless someone has a more convincing argument/approach than mine.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Technically true, we don't know if he displays type 1 properties exactly because he turned into order, but nevertheless he is still a type 1 order from which the gods' order are considered above it. So while Jerga's shenanigans by itself wouldn't be solid to consider every godly order type 1, I think his case coupled with Zeke's statement seems reasonable to consider it that way. Well, I think it's just a matter of agreeing to disagree and letting other people voice their votes/matters at this point, so I think I will leave it to that, unless someone has a more convincing argument/approach than mine.

Well, I'll maintain my position since I think the "second only to gods" statement doesn't seem very solid. But I'll wait for staff opinion on this.

Soooo where exactly is the type 1 Concept explanation here? Because I'm not really seeing it in the scans. Also what about providence proves Order is Fate? Providence just means a divine being is protecting it, not literally controlling the fate of others. Lastly why does Anos moving in a time-stopped world give him law and fate resistance? That's just resisting timestop, nothing more.

This will be a sequence of events.

-Jerga is about to die, he decides to turn his body into something else.
-Before dying, he knew the hate for demons wouldn't remain forever, so he turned his source/concept into Aske. This caused Aske to serve as a catalyst for the hate for demons back from the mythical age, which remained existing and brainwashed whoever used Aske. Jerga's body was gone but the hate wasn't.
-It is later clarified that, by turning himself into Aske, he became part of the world's order and thus a pure concept that existed incessantly.
-While Jerga's body was gone, the hate wasn't, and it has persisted ever since the mythical age, and it is what Jerga is now.
-When the people from Azeshion (humans) increased their grudge against demons, Jerga became stronger.
-Jerga later clarifies that to kill him, Anos would have to kill everyone from Azesion, the country of humanity (because humans hate demons). And then he says that even if Anos does kill every human to end the hate, Jerga himself will still exist. His existence cannot be erased.
-Jerga states that due to his hate becoming the order of the world, the hate for demons shall persist. This ties back to this scan, where Anos states that Jerga himself had become one with the order of the world. So this means he is the hate itself.

No, I meant if Jerga's order being type 1 is due to it being order, and not something on Jerga's part. Because the way I see it, Jerga's source has become that order, so Jerga will continue to live. So long as Jerga lives, he hates demons, and as long as he hates demons, the order of that hatred (his source) will exist as well... which just loops forever and ensures neither will be destroyed, even if everyone else is. If that's the case, why would other orders scale to that?

So while that specific instance is probably type 1, I think it's too reliant on external stuff to say every other order is type 1. I think being stated as "second only to the gods" is a bit too vague to be scalable in this way.

Like I said though, I'm neutral but leaning agree.

@Theglassman12, what do you think about this?

 

[Dereck03]

This will be a sequence of events.

-Jerga is about to die, he decides to turn his body into something else.
-Before dying, he knew the hate for demons wouldn't remain forever, so he turned his source/concept into Aske. This caused Aske to serve as a catalyst for the hate for demons back from the mythical age, which remained existing and brainwashed whoever used Aske. Jerga's body was gone but the hate wasn't.
-It is later clarified that, by turning himself into Aske, he became part of the world's order and thus a pure concept that existed incessantly.
-While Jerga's body was gone, the hate wasn't, and it has persisted ever since the mythical age, and it is what Jerga is now.
-When the people from Azeshion (humans) increased their grudge against demons, Jerga became stronger.
-Jerga later clarifies that to kill him, Anos would have to kill everyone from Azesion, the country of humanity (because humans hate demons). And then he says that even if Anos does kill every human to end the hate, Jerga himself will still exist. His existence cannot be erased.
-Jerga states that due to his hate becoming the order of the world, the hate for demons shall persist. This ties back to this scan, where Anos states that Jerga himself had become one with the order of the world. So this means he is the hate itself.

If you mean the current type 1 feats of the verse, yes it's only from order feats. Can't think of anything else, even for the WN.

As for the scaling to other orders, its mainly because Jerga is stated to be of a nature lesser than that of the order of the gods. So while Jerga is order, his order is not divine/godly level.

Technically true, we don't know if he displays type 1 properties exactly because he turned into order, but nevertheless he is still a type 1 order from which the gods' order are considered above it. So while Jerga's shenanigans by itself wouldn't be solid to consider every godly order type 1, I think his case coupled with Zeke's statement seems reasonable to consider it that way. Well, I think it's just a matter of agreeing to disagree and letting other people voice their votes/matters at this point, so I think I will leave it to that, unless someone has a more convincing argument/approach than mine.

@Elizhaa we would like to have your input regarding this issue.

Edit. Orders in general were previously accepted as type 1 here. But as you can see it was from the WN and the current LN still doesn't reach that necessary evidence.

 

[Theglassman12]

At best I can see this being a Jerga thing, if there's some more scans that further proves that any Order can exist independently from the world or the world being nuked does nothing to Order then I'd be fine with type 1, but as of now just type 2 with Jerga being the exception.

@EldemadeDityjon I mean they literally say they're the various laws that compose the world, don't really seeing a point in disagreeing with something as blatant as that for law hax.

That still just sounds like time stop resistance. You're going to need more than just that to give Anos law resistance via fighting off a time stop spell.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

At best I can see this being a Jerga thing, if there's some more scans that further proves that any Order can exist independently from the world or the world being nuked does nothing to Order then I'd be fine with type 1, but as of now just type 2 with Jerga being the exception.

@EldemadeDityjon I mean they literally say they're the various laws that compose the world, don't really seeing a point in disagreeing with something as blatant as that for law hax.

That still just sounds like time stop resistance. You're going to need more than just that to give Anos law resistance via fighting off a time stop spell.

Just so MG supporters don't get your ass for this, what do you think of the statement that Jerga's order is "second only to the order of the gods"? That seems to be the basis for type 1 as of now.

 

[Theglassman12]

Is the magic they're talking about specifically about the whole concept of hatred that he's boasting about or is it something else? If the former then I could see it being potentially type 1, but I'd like some more explicit statements to hand out type 1 concepts to everyone who can control order.

 

[Fixxed]

can exist independently from the world or the world being nuked does nothing to Order

From where you get that??? You dont have to being independent from world for being CM 1. Just independent from reality they govern. Dont say you misconception about "reality" in here

 

[Elizhaa]

-It is later clarified that, by turning himself into Aske, he became part of the world's order and thus a pure concept that existed incessantly

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749163271784890479/1101624729456087080/jerga_aske4.png

.-Jerga states that due to his hate becoming the order of the world, the hate for demons shall persist. This ties back to this scan, where Anos states that Jerga himself had become one with the order of the world. So this means he is the hate itself.

Jerga's concept is similar to something like the law of gravity; laws like gravity could possibly be type 2 concepts, based on the conceptual manipulation page definition.
But Jerga will still exit if that hatred is removed from people' minds, like by death, so in that case he would be independent of the "object" related to the concept so type 1 could probably be fine.

Anos Also should get Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 & Law Manipulation for Walking into Eugola Raviaz time stopped world.

I am neutral on this point; it could be timestop resistance like others have stated.

The rest seems like they could be fine.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749163271784890479/1101624729456087080/jerga_aske4.png


Jerga's concept is similar to something like the law of gravity; laws like gravity could possibly be type 2 concepts, based on the conceptual manipulation page definition.
But Jerga will still exit if that hatred is removed from people' minds, like by death, so in that case he would be independent of the "object" related to the concept so type 1 could probably be fine.


I am neutral on this point; it could be timestop resistance like others have stated.

The rest seems like they could be fine.

With all due respect, why do you think fate manipulation is okay? None of the scans even mention anything related to fate.

Also, as a side note, if the order resistance for Anos via resisting Ivis' time stop is rejected, we should probably remove the law/concept resistance from his profile for resisting abilities based on order.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749163271784890479/1101624729456087080/jerga_aske4.png

Jerga's concept is similar to something like the law of gravity; laws like gravity could possibly be type 2 concepts, based on the conceptual manipulation page definition.
But Jerga will still exit if that hatred is removed from people' minds, like by death, so in that case he would be independent of the "object" related to the concept so type 1 could probably be fine.

Thanks

I am neutral on this point; it could be timestop resistance like others have stated.

Here is furthermore supporting evidence. Revide can ignore natural Laws. Also it's a magic which Transcends time




Additionally Anos can use it to manipulate time freely. He himself has time stop with that ability.

Anos himself can manipulate Concept of time With his spell Revide but he states even if that spell is not match for Eugola Raviaz Time Manipulation Sychte which created a Pocket reality and stopped time.

The fact Anos himself Claims Eugola Raviaz Manipulating Scythe > His Revide spell which can stop the time and spell itself called to be able to manipulate time freely and Transcends time. Ignoring natural Laws. Where in MGK past is kept as past.

Oh forgot one more thing when Eugola Raviaz appeared he stopped time of the world and created a space where it was completely isolated from the world.

@EldemadeDityjon I mean they literally say they're the various laws that compose the world, don't really seeing a point in disagreeing with something as blatant as that for law hax.

That still just sounds like time stop resistance. You're going to need more than just that to give Anos law resistance via fighting off a time stop spell.

Check the above explanation

I posted the scans for Revide itself being ignoring the laws of the world. It's a spell which also transcends and manipulates concepts of time.

Eugola Raviaz Time God scythe > Revide. Anos directly states that.

Anos also states Eugola is the God who manipulates order of time. Only way him can manipulate order of time is by using that Sychte.

With all due respect, why do you think fate manipulation is okay? None of the scans even mention anything related to fate.

Order structured the world. Gods are bound to that order. You can't remove gods without removing the Providence/Fate they are bound to the world. Anos removed God of destruction from the world itself.

 

[Fixxed]

None of the scans even mention anything related to fate.

Providence???

And even if it not enough for you, it have the most stainforward proof for the fate
In here is literally say
"as long as jerga remain, demon are DESTINED to die"

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749163271784890479/1101629025832685608/jerga_aske10.png

And also the fact that providence of world is more higher than fate, because evansmana it self that can cut fate cannot cut jerga

Also, as a side note, if the order resistance for Anos via resisting Ivis' time stop is rejected, we should probably remove the law/concept resistance from his profile for resisting abilities based on order.

Ehhh.. why??? Explain. Arnos resisting other order not have any connection that he resisting ivis' time stop