Fiamma of the Right vs Enrico Pucci

[ShadeyD]

SBA
Both on their last keys
Fiamma:
Pucci:
Starting distance 100 meters
Inconclusive:

 

[Shmooply]

An actually interesting and thematic Pucci matchup? This oughta be good.

Would the Right Hand even be able to see and analyze Pucci's stand, considering its layered Incorporeality?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

An actually interesting and thematic Pucci matchup? This oughta be good.

Would the Right Hand even be able to see and analyze Pucci's stand, considering its layered Incorporeality?

Probably not. Holy Right doesn't have anything in its arsenal that can detect smth like Stands.

Not really sure of the distance but maybe Fiamma's teleporting could negate Pucci's speed advantage by teleporting Fiamma a large distance away and just swinging its 30-40km flame sword at Pucci until he gets hit or Pucci's speed gets too fast for Fiamma to tag?

 

[VoidGoji]

Stand speed isn't equalized by the rules, so Fiamma might be cooked. If not, its basically a "can the Holy Right target and attack Pucci before MIH accelerates to infinity?". Kinda incon imo

 

[XDragnoir]

Stand speed isn't equalized by the rules, so Fiamma might be cooked. If not, its basically a "can the Holy Right target and attack Pucci before MIH accelerates to infinity?". Kinda incon imo

The starting distance is 100m, I don't know if MiH can move that far away from Pucci.

If he can't, Fiamma just attacks once and the HR kills Pucci.

 

[Chariot190]

Stand speed isn't equalized by the rules, so Fiamma might be cooked. If not, its basically a "can the Holy Right target and attack Pucci before MIH accelerates to infinity?". Kinda incon imo

It gets equalized, it's just equalized relatively. MIH has short range though, it's a power-type, surely can't be past 10m. Of course he can throw shit, but that isn't quite the same.

Post-Reset Pucci can accelerate a ludicrous amount instantly though, crunched like two weeks in less than a second and counting against Emporio.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

It gets equalized, it's just equalized relatively. MIH has short range though, it's a power-type, surely can't be past 10m. Of course he can throw shit, but that isn't quite the same.

Post-Reset Pucci can accelerate a ludicrous amount instantly though, crunched like two weeks in less than a second and counting against Emporio.

Ye. Although, correct me if I am mistaken, wasn't it a point that despite Pucci speeding up time he is still limited in his actual movement speed hence why Emporio managed to escape from him via dolphins riding the waves or smth like that? ... Haven't read Part 6 in a long time, so I am not sure if I am right or not.

I am pointing this out because Fiamma's first (and only move) in this key (in-canon) is doing a planet-destroying attack against a single person. And this key of Fiamma should be more than capable of doing a Eurasia-busting attack that his first key can perform, if he hypothetically decides to not planet-bust but still wants to do a smaller but still frick-off AoE attack.

So, uh... Could Pucci cross a 100m on foot before Fiamma does a big frick-off AoE attack?

 

[Chariot190]

Ye. Although, correct me if I am mistaken, wasn't it a point that despite Pucci speeding up time he is still limited in his actual movement speed hence why Emporio managed to escape from him via dolphins riding the waves or smth like that? ... Haven't read Part 6 in a long time, so I am not sure if I am right or not.

Kinda, he's limited in the sense he still needs to breath, take breaks, etc. But the actual speed he does so is buffed.


They outright say he could outspeed the dolphin, but the dolphin is already far away, and Jolyne then says she'll stall Pucci making the gap even bigger. So sure, Pucci could outspeed it in say, half a second, but to him, that'd be an actual relevant length of time, he'd drown at that rate if he actually chased it as he wouldn't be able to swim back to shore due to stamina.

This doesn't really matter on land, Pucci can dash like 1km, sit for like 20 seconds from his POV, and continue dashing, and have it all happen from an outside PoV in like 0.00001 seconds.

If we're using post accel pucci (as in, after the 1st loop against, not when he first obtained MIH and was still figuring out how it worked), he crunched time by over a week, in under a second, instantly. Which is a fancy way of saying he basically went from a average human to sub-rel in a instant at a mere thought (he isn't average human, but you get what I mean), or to make it more blatant.
Do you think you could walk 100m in a week's time?

Actually just to approximate, low end it as a week crunch down to a second. Say Pucci has a dogshit movement speed of like 5mps, like straight up chill walking. He'd be walking at 3024km a second (in speed, obviously the stamina thing comes into play), but that's to say, from Fiamma's pov, it'd take Pucci 0.00003307 seconds to cover 100m. So....

The question I ask is, can Pucci even do anything to him though?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

IIRC, Holy Right is the thing that takes hits and has 5-B dura while Fiamma is just a regular person who hasn't been punched once in his life. So, ye, Pucci can easily donut him with MiH if he gets the chance.

OP didn't specifically say if this is post accel MiH!Pucci or pre accel MiH!Pucci; although I assume the latter since they didn't imply anything for it.

If it helps even the odds a little, Holy Right, by itself, is SoL while Pucci himself has FTL reactions (of what exact degree, I am not sure). In the worst (non-stomp) case, if the gap isn't "too wide", Fiamma could unleash his AoE attack via Holy Right, get donut'ed and then Pucci just dies immediately after from a continental-spanning and/or planet-spanning/busting AoE attack, which just leads to an incon.

 

[Chariot190]

IIRC, Holy Right is the thing that takes hits and has 5-B dura while Fiamma is just a regular person who hasn't been punched once in his life. So, ye, Pucci can easily donut him with MiH if he gets the chance.

Ok.

OP didn't specifically say if this is post accel MiH!Pucci or pre accel MiH!Pucci; although I assume the latter since they didn't imply anything for it.

We use the latest iteration if not specified so....

If it helps even the odds a little, Holy Right, by itself, is SoL while Pucci himself has FTL reactions (of what exact degree, I am not sure).

Outdated slop. It's more like Rel. Which is, still basically SoL and his reactions will be amped exponentially so it doesn't actually change anything.

In the worst (non-stomp) case, if the gap isn't "too wide", Fiamma could unleash his AoE attack via Holy Right, get donut'ed and then Pucci just dies immediately after from a continental-spanning and/or planet-spanning/busting AoE attack, which just leads to an incon.

How long does it take for him to do it. I don't mean like, realistically though, obviously a superspeed dude will be attacking super fast. I mean from his perspective, does it take a second to do? 3? 4? Half a second? If it takes to long, Pucci is gonna be quicker on the draw.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

It's a light novel, I can't give an accurate time frame, but... it could be a second?

Like for his planet-destroying attack, Fiamma just "gestured" with Holy Right and it headed for Touma. Again, this key only appeared for a short-time and his only move during this time was his planet-destroying attack. So he would likely be quick to use it, especially with SBA conditions regarding mindset in play.

... And this is pretty much all I got, lel. Fiamma is (pretty much) a boring character to me, and I am only "debating" since none of the other Toaru Verse supporters are, rn. Bai, peps, won't be back.

 

[ShadeyD]

Something I noticed on Pucci's profile

Due to the effects of time acceleration, airborne attacks are more likely to affect Pucci, and its time acceleration slowly increases over time

Is it possible for Fiamma can exploit this weakness?

 

[Chariot190]

Something I noticed on Pucci's profile

Is it possible for Fiamma can exploit this weakness?

That is the most INSANE description of what happened I've ever seen.

I'm pretty sure it's talking about Emporio filling the room with pure oxygen, which while airborne, I wouldn't cdescribe it as that. Essentially, pure oxygen, which is poison. Emporio could outlast Pucci, because Pucci was sped up, so he breathed it in quicker, breathed more, etc, in a shorter time, basically being poisoned quicker. Which incapped him before it took Emporio, which also payalyzed Pucci due to the oxygen poisoning, enabling Emporio to kill him as he couldn't move.

And, I don't know why the second thing is even a weakness, that's a good thing, he constantly gets quicker and quicker. Like if he starts at 1, and then goes to 2, he'd then hit 4, then 8, then 16, etc. Time accelerates at an exponential rate, and along with it, his speed.

 

[Chariot190]

It's a light novel, I can't give an accurate time frame, but... it could be a second?

Well, as said, in a second, Pucci would be up on his ass.

Like for his planet-destroying attack, Fiamma just "gestured" with Holy Right and it headed for Touma. Again, this key only appeared for a short-time and his only move during this time was his planet-destroying attack. So he would likely be quick to use it, especially with SBA conditions regarding mindset in play.

Sure, but a gesture is gonna be like 600,000x slower than Pucci as soon as Pucci activates his Stand, and it'd only get worse.

Using the aproximation from before, say that gesture is just lifting his hand, that's what a 90 degree arc? Let's say a 1m motion. Pucci would only need to be 100x quicker to cover 100m to tie, but Pucci ain't 100x quicker with MIH, it's magnitudes above that.

If the lad is only like 10-B and they start 100m apart. Pucci can legit just think to activate his Stand, and then he blitzes almost a million times over. Unless Pucci feels like yapping for some reason but he doesn't exactly have a vendetta here, he'd just kill like he's done before right away. Now if the dude is actually durable, Pucci being only 8-C would be ******, and would have to wait quite awhile to abuse the KE amp to where it'd hit 5-B, which would take to long and he'd prob die.

 

[ShadeyD]

Well if this helps in any way, Fiamma can just spawn attacks on his target via

The Strike That Reaches Everything When Swung: This attack delivers itself right next to its target without any speed, thus allowing him to move and attack anywhere and anything at will.[8][10] It is essentially teleportation

This is one showing of that ability

Toaru Majutsu no Index 22 Chapter 9 Part 2 (Holy Right protects Fiamma from an orbital laser bombardment)

No one there was able to predict the next attack that came.

Kamijou could not and Fiamma could not.

No one else would have been able to either.

Something twinkled in the heavens spread out above the broken ceiling.

It was a white light.

Immediately after Kamijou’s mind interpreted it that way, a giant pure-white pillar of light poured down in a straight line and enveloped Fiamma.

A sound like oil poured on a hot wok reached Kamijou’s ears an instant later.

“Wha—!?”

There was an explosion.

A brilliant light as if from welding made Kamijou cover his eyes with his hands. It was so bright he started to get a headache and then he felt his feet float up off the ground.

Immediately afterwards, he was knocked back a few meters.

That was nothing more than an aftereffect.

There was such heat that the air exploded and the shockwave that created was enough to blow away a human body.

But…

“An Academy City optical weapon, hm?”

That refreshingly cool voice came from within the explosive beam of light.

Despite supposedly receiving that mysterious attack, Fiamma’s manner of speech did not change in the slightest.

“If I remember correctly, their officially announced number of satellites is four, but from this, it seems I was right in assuming there was something very off about the distribution map of their space forces. Most likely, smaller satellites and space ships are being deployed from a large central station.”

The pure-white light that had shot down from overhead had looked like it had come straight down on Fiamma’s shoulder.

However, it had not.

In reality, the third arm growing from his shoulder was lifted straight up as if it were a giant parasol. It did not allow the falling light to encroach on his position. Fiamma then casually swung his right arm. That was all.

And yet the air shook greatly.

The white light was blown away by his third arm like eraser scraps being flicked away with a finger. That was all. With that, that tremendous light that had been wielded with such fury vanished. Kamijou’s vision was average, so he could not see what was occurring outside the atmosphere, but he knew. Fiamma, the man who stood before his eyes, had shot down the satellite with that simple motion.

“It’s nothing to be surprised about.” Fiamma of the Right swayed his third arm back and forth. “In fact, I’m rather embarrassed that I had to show off my right arm in such an incomplete state

Anime version of that scene where he destroys that satellite at 0:17

 

[Chariot190]

Well if this helps in any way, Fiamma can just spawn attacks on his target via


This is one showing of that ability


Anime version of that scene where he destroys that satellite at 0:17

What's he leading with. Pucci will instantly accel to be like a million times quicker (thought based), if dude leads with the other stuff as Fanta says, obviously he would never get the chance to use that.

Though, when he did that, he did it with a gesture, which would literally be to slow to stop a Pucci out for blood, from just 100m. Would be viable from like dozens to hundreds of km away but still.

 

[ShadeyD]

If the lad is only like 10-B and they start 100m apart. Pucci can legit just think to activate his Stand, and then he blitzes almost a million times over. Unless Pucci feels like yapping for some reason but he doesn't exactly have a vendetta here, he'd just kill like he's done before right away. Now if the dude is actually durable, Pucci being only 8-C would be ******, and would have to wait quite awhile to abuse the KE amp to where it'd hit 5-B, which would take to long and he'd prob die.

Regarding durability Fiamma was able to tank and survive an attack from one of Ventos ice ships which are listed as City level in her profile, as for why this isn't listed in his profile, idk it's likely because the Holy Right allowed him to tank it seems, as Fiamma can use a portion of it's power without manifesting the third arm and the HR has 5B durability so...

Toaru Majutsu no Index 20 Chapter 2 Part 8 (Fiamma tanks Vento's attacks)

Immediately afterwards, Fiamma of the Right was knocked straight back.

Kamijou was a few dozen meters away, but not even he could grasp what had happened.

The event had not been unusual due to its speed. It was the scale.

All of a sudden, a giant structure had split through the snowy earth in the center of the plaza. The object that came up diagonally was a sailing vessel made of transparent ice. It was about forty meters long, but not all of the ship could be seen. That forty meter figure only applied to the part visible at that time.

A cannon made of ice on the side of the ship aimed towards Fiamma.

Instead of the flames of gunpowder, ice powder shot out along with an explosive noise.

That attack of ice was the antithesis of the flames that the name Fiamma referred to and it was not merely a cannonball that was fired. It was a transparent anchor. The two or three meter mass struck Fiamma’s body and knocked him a few kilometers away.

[...]

There was an explosive noise.

It was the sound of the giant ice anchor exploding a few kilometers away while it was caught on Fiamma.

It was not just an explosion caused by gunpowder.

Hundreds of meter-long ice stakes were created in the explosion. The tips of the ice stakes were sharper than a steel spear and thousands upon thousands of them continued to explode outwards in every direction. The ground was gouged out and a large amount of snow and black soil was blown into the air. It was fortunate that the surrounding area was wilderness. With those numbers and that destructive force, even an underground shelter would have been turned to Swiss cheese.

The people in the plaza did not understand what was going on. However, it seemed they were easily susceptible to the hostility and killing intent packed into the mountain of ice blades that had suddenly appeared. Some of them even folded their hands and desperately prayed.

It was impossible to tell what had become of Fiamma from there.

Even if they headed closer and investigated, it might be hard to tell.

That was how much destructive force had been sent his way.

[...]

“Oh, really? I’d say I’m much more careful with my possession than you give me credit for,” said a voice of unknown origin cutting Vento off.

Immediately afterwards, the loud sound of the distant mountain of ice blades being blown to pieces from within was heard. It went beyond the level of an eruption. The overwhelming force did not even allow the remnants to rain back down to the ground. The shattered pieces were swept away in the wind.

Also, when Pucci accelerates when he hits someone does he turn the people he kills into red mist or anything to the point of no recover?
Because when Fiamma was near dying and had his arm cut off, the Holy Right was keeping him alive

Toaru Majutsu no Index 22 Proclamation of Armistice

Battered and bruised.

His right hand had been cut off.

Exposed to the cold snowstorm that was like blades, being unable to move even a finger.

At this rate, he would be buried under the snow.

[...]

“At least he looks like he’s breathing.”

“It’s purely because of his ability. There was no need to hold back then,”

As for what Fiamma leads with, ig it'd technically be the HR protecting him from threats, tho the HR acts independently and this isn't Fiamma doing this
But for attacks i believe he either leads with light manipulation or the swing?

 

[Chariot190]

Regarding durability Fiamma was able to tank and survive an attack from one of Ventos ice ships which are listed as City level in her profile, as for why this isn't listed in his profile, idk it's likely because the Holy Right allowed him to tank it seems, as Fiamma can use a portion of it's power without manifesting the third arm and the HR has 5B durability so...

This tells me nothing. What is his durability without protection. Fiamma is going to be attacked like a million times quicker than HR can protect him from anything.

Also, when Pucci accelerates when he hits someone does he turn the people he kills into red mist or anything to the point of no recover?

They will after a point, but no, because it isn't him that gets the KE, it's other objects, he could like flick a pebble tho.

Because when Fiamma was near dying and had his arm cut off, the Holy Right was keeping him alive

That doesn't matter. Pucci's MIH kills usually have him mutilate, he's also so fast that he'd realize he isn't dying and go in for the kill before he can do anything.

As for what Fiamma leads with, ig it'd technically be the HR protecting him from threats, tho the HR acts independently and this isn't Fiamma doing this

Pucci is going to be quicker than HR, and has his Stand to aid getting past it.

But for attacks i believe he either leads with light manipulation or the swing?

Pucci leads with blitzing and like, mutilation, usually ripping his foes apart, including their head.

 

[VoidGoji]

This is kinda of a stomp tbh. Pucci just instantly blitzing with a thought and one-shotting makes so Fiamma can't do anything despite his ap and hax