Few things to note about the Henry Stickmin verse

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I just looked at the profiles for the Henry Stickmin verse and found few things worth noting:

1. Henry and the rest of the base human cast shouldn't be 8-A aside from some very specific occasions, since Henry is pretty consistently being depicted as much weaker than Cyborg Right Hand Man, and can only harm him in very specific occasions (such as with the cheap fighting combo and the Stickmin Pawnch). Even in the justifications for Cyborg RHM's durability it's clearly said that he's unharmed by Henry's regular attacks when Henry is a human. Since these are Henry's only justifications for 8-A, his tier should be adjusted. Other characters would be affected too. Examples for how their new tier would look like:

Henry (Human): Varies from 9-B to High 8-C, 8-A with Cheap fighting tactics and Stickmin Pawnch, higher with various items, Low 7-C with rage, up to 7-A with explosives

Ellie: Varies from 9-B to High 8-C, 8-A with Stickmin Pawnch, 8-A with the Force

Charles: Varies from 9-B to High 8-C

Right Hand Man (Human): Varies from 9-B to High 8-C

Mr. Macbeth: Varies from 9-B to High 8-C, far higher with his laser

2. Why their lifting strength is listed as "At least Class 25"? Henry and Charles both significantly downscale from this calc since they got crushed by the door almost immediately after they barely managed to lift it.

3. Why is Ellry, Ellie and Henry's fusion, appears in Ellie's page and isn't mentioned as an entity on its own? And they only appear in Ellie's weakness section so it's even worse. That would be the equivalent of putting a key for Gogeta in Goku's profile

 

[Psychomaster35]

I disagree with the downgrade, as Henry is already inconsistent to begin with, hence his base physical tier, and not to mention how he already scales to Charles’ spaceship crashing into him which moved the station, which is already that tier. Also, he and Ellie were capable of beating up RHMR together before doing the Stickmin Punch.

At least Class 25 was considered a massive downscale assuming baseline, given how it got a + rating, which is close to it being 50.

I agree with removing that weakness, and instead, that would only make its own separate profile.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I disagree with the downgrade, as Henry is already inconsistent to begin with, hence his base physical tier, and not to mention how he already scales to Charles’ helicopter crashing into him which moved the station, which is already that tier. Also, he and Ellie were capable of beating up RHMR together before doing the Stickmin Punch.

At least Class 25 was considered a massive downscale assuming baseline, given how it got a + rating, which is close to it being 50.

I agree with removing that weakness, and instead, that would only make its own separate profile.

1. He and Ellie beating the RHM Reborn is an outlier when normally Henry can't even scratch him. Henry can be inconsistent, yes, but it's far more consistent for him to be a fodder to RHM Reborn rather than the opposite, seeing how even Base RHM scales above Henry (since Henry can't beat him by regular means and needs his weapons to kill him in ItA), not to mention that RHM Reborn put up more of a fight against Cyborg Henry then against Henry with Cheap fighting combo or Henry and Ellie during the Stickmin Pawnch Beatdown so that would mean: RHM Reborn >= Henry Reborn >> Henry >> RHM Reborn.

2. If it's close to Class 50, then it's ok for them to be Class 25. Though I think removing the "At least" would be better

3. Henry Stickmin in general needs more profiles

 

[Psychomaster35]

Do note that RHMR scales to 8-A because he upscaled from Henry who survived said shuttle feat which moved the station in Valiant Hero, and also, in one fail in Toppat King when he and Henry did a style attack, the government troops ended up overpowering them, and they’re shown fighting evenly with the Toppats in other routes such as Pure Blooded Thief. And if Henry and Ellie had to beat RHMR together, it meant that one couldn’t be alone to take on RHMR without certain equipment or more people.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Do note that RHMR scales to 8-A because he upscaled from Henry who survived said shuttle feat which moved the station in Valiant Hero, and also, in one fail in Toppat King when he and Henry did a style attack, the government troops ended up overpowering them, and they’re shown fighting evenly with the Toppats in other routes such as Pure Blooded Thief. And if Henry and Ellie had to beat RHMR together, it meant that one couldn’t be alone to take on RHMR without certain equipment or more people.

It's more like they had guns and other stuff in Toppat King. And the Cybrog body can still be damaged by shots such as in Revenged

Also in all Pure Blooded Thief endings, RHM remains a human. He's only a Cyborg in Relentless Bounty Hunter and Rapidly Promoted Executive

Also since the feat is so close to Low 7-C, RHM Reborn might as well scale to baseline Low 7-C. He was killed by 1.976 kilotons so 1 kilotons is still fine (that since he took both punches and then died)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump

 

[ElixirBlue]

I agree with the OP's existing arguements.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Didn’t human Henry beat RHM by himself via cheap fighting game combo when RHM allowed him one free move against him?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Didn’t human Henry beat RHM by himself via cheap fighting game combo when RHM allowed him one free move against him?

Yes. This is why I said he should be 8-A with only the Cheap Fighting Combo and Stickmin Pawnch

In every other instance where the RHM Reborn appeared, he effortlessly stomped Henry and could even defeat Android Henry, who is vastly above his base form, in certain fails, and is generally portrayed as more powerful than him, since Henry needed the Y type move to win

While the verse can be inconsistent, the portrayal of RHM Reborn being >>>>>> Henry is very consistent throughout all of his appearences

 

[Psychomaster35]

Still disagree, as I said, remember the Toppat Orbital Station KE? Thats where it comes from for Henry to scale, unless you have problems with this. If there are no problems, since RHMR beats Henry most of the time, its at least reasonable he would upscale to the next tier, Small Town.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Still disagree, as I said, remember the Toppat Orbital Station KE? Thats where it comes from for Henry to scale, unless you have problems with this. If there are no problems, since RHMR beats Henry most of the time, its at least reasonable he would upscale to the next tier, Small Town.

Actually, I'm fine with RHM Reborn scaling to Low 7-C due to him being consistently shown to be >>>>>> Henry if Charles Heli's KE is legit

However, I'm not sure about the Toppat's orbital station KE, since it was for the plane crashing and doing this feat, rather than Henry or Charles making a punch this strong. Due to surface area, I feel like they won't fully scale to this feat due to them not taking its full force. But even if they did, the point is that Henry shouldn't normally scale to RHM Reborn and the times he does beat him are either special occasion that should be mentioned on their own, or be outliers

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump

 

[Psychomaster35]

On a side note revision (while it may be off topic but related to the series), Henry is only able to die for good when he accomplishes his mission, shown in the Revenged ending when Reginald mortally damaged Henry‘s cybernetics just before the airship crashed, and Henry successfully fulfilled his mission on his revenge to Reginald, but at the cost of his life due to the damage he took. And no, The Betrayed didn't count because that was more of a continuation leading to Revenged instead of an actual ending. As such, any other instance where Henry dies, gets KO’d, gets BFR’d, or incapacitated, he can come back from his retries.

So that may grant him Immortality Type 8 where its reliant on Henry’s mission that he had yet to achieve it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

On a side note revision (while it may be off topic but related to the series), Henry is only able to die for good when he accomplishes his mission, shown in the Revenged ending when Reginald mortally damaged Henry‘s cybernetics just before the airship crashed, and Henry successfully fulfilled his mission on his revenge to Reginald, but at the cost of his life due to the damage he took. And no, The Betrayed didn't count because that was more of a continuation leading to Revenged instead of an actual ending. As such, any other instance where Henry dies, gets KO’d, gets BFR’d, or incapacitated, he can come back from his retries.

So that may grant him Immortality Type 8 where its reliant on Henry’s mission that he had yet to achieve it.

Henry literally died in The Betrayed ending in FtC, he was only brought back to life due to the involvment of the Russian doctor (whose name I don't remember)

Also considering that WoG considered all endings are canon, that would mean all choices Henry made are canon and diverge into different universes (there is also the multiverse correction button that confirms this, since the fails add up to fill the multiversal imbalance gauge in the CCC Headquarters). That would mean we not only have a seperate universe for each ending Henry have, but also to each fail Henry did. Meaning in most universes Henry either died or failed in another way due to how the fails vastly outnumber the successful endings

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump

 

[TheGatememer]

Actually, it seems that Henry survived. By revived, she probably just means that she managed to replace his vitals with cybernetics in time before he died or something.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Actually, it seems that Henry survived. By revived, she probably just means that she managed to replace his vitals with cybernetics in time before he died or something.

Henry didn't survived the fall in The Betrayed. It was confirmed he died and got revived in tje beginning of the Revenged story

 

[TheGatememer]

Puffball said he died prior to CtM being announced. He probably just said it so people wouldn't ask him. In an interview, he even said that if too many people asked him to make a new Henry Stickmin game prior to CtM, he would just say that Betrayed is the canon ending because if Henry is dead, no more Henry Stickmin games.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Puffball said he died prior to CtM being announced. He probably just said it so CtM would be a surprise.

No he legit died. The plot was about the russian doctor resurrecting Henry with cybernetic enhancements and he tries to take revenge on Reginald and the Toppats for betraying and killing him. The doctor even said "You were gone for a bit", which implies he did died.

Also Henry was with his face down until she came to resurrect him, meaning he definitely died since even if the fall didn't killed him (when it did), he drowned afterwards

 

[TheGatememer]

By gone, she could also mean that he flat lined, which doesn't necessarily mean he died. While I don't want to derail this thread too much, this sort of stuff has happened in fiction before, a person seemingly "dying" then being revived by medical treatment. Though, they obviously didn't die. One example I can think of right away is Joseph Joestar after his blood was drained by Dio, and seemingly being dead. But was later "revived" by pumping blood back into him.

I won't get too much into this, since I'm somewhat neutral on the Type 8 thing.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

By gone, she could also mean that he flat lined, which doesn't necessarily mean he died. While I don't want to derail this thread too much, this sort of stuff has happened in fiction before, a person seemingly "dying" then being revived by medical treatment. Though, they obviously didn't die. One example I can think of right away is Joseph Joestar after his blood was drained by Dio, and seemingly being dead. But was later "revived" by pumping blood back into him.

I won't get too much into this, since I'm somewhat neutral on the Type 8 thing.

He was also confirmed by PuffBalls to die in FtC in the Betrayed ending. It's pretty evident he died in the Revenged storyline. He's also confirmed that he died in the wikia

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump

 

[Psychomaster35]

At the very least, I removed the weakness related to Ellry from Ellie’s page, if that helps.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

At the very least, I removed the weakness related to Ellry from Ellie’s page, if that helps.

Thank you. Though we still need to address the other points. Also, since you told me on another thread that the Stickmin Pawnch calc was rejected, there's really only Charles' heli crash to support 8-A.

Maybe some staff members are needed here

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Also, isn't Henry's tier right now exactly what you suggested?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Also, Henry's 8-A literally comes from his own durability feat, not RHM

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Also, isn't Henry's tier right now exactly what you suggested?

Not really. I do intend to change some stuff (such as scaling him to RHM Reborn). Other than that I'm not sure about his 8-A tier either since he wasn't caught in the full explosion due to being slammed inwards into the ship by the heli, with the same happening to Charles

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Not really. I do intend to change some stuff (such as scaling him to RHM Reborn). Other than that I'm not sure about his 8-A tier either since he wasn't caught in the full explosion due to being slammed inwards into the ship by the heli, with the same happening to Charles

It wasn't explosion, it was KE. And he scales cause he was slammed through the wall

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Maybe. Though even if 8-A is valid, then he still doesn't scale to RHM Reborn, as he was shown to be able to consistently stomp Henry

 

[TheGatememer]

Physically speaking, RHM reborn is far superior to Henry's base. The only reason Henry was able to defeat him was with help, or a cheap tactic.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

The thing is, it's RHM who gets his tier from Henry, not the other way around

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The thing is, it's RHM who gets his tier from Henry, not the other way around

True, though he logically should be >>>>>>> Henry's highest tier due to being able to consistently stomp him.

Hell, even Cyborg Henry is either weaker than RHM Reborn or at his level, since he only defeated him with the Y Type move

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

True, though he logically should be >>>>>>> Henry's highest tier due to being able to consistently stomp him.

Hell, even Cyborg Henry is either weaker than RHM Reborn or at his level, since he only defeated him with the Y Type move

Cyborg Henry stabbed RHM in the eye and clashed swords with him several times.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Cyborg Henry stabbed RHM in the eye and clashed swords with him several times.

That still doesn't make Henry above him, as of Henry chooses every other option he loses to the RHM Reborn.

Also the RHM Reborn could still not only continue fighting Henry, but even overpower him with his energy blast (aside from Henry using the Y type move).

RHM Reborn also no-sold to being stabbed in his chin, so a stab in his robotic eye isn't a problem to him at all

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

That still doesn't make Henry above him, as of Henry chooses every other option he loses to the RHM Reborn.

Also the RHM Reborn could still not only continue fighting Henry, but even overpower him with his energy blast (aside from Henry using the Y type move).

RHM Reborn also no-sold to being stabbed in his chin, so a stab in his robotic eye isn't a problem to him at all

henry literally batted one of RHM's strongest attacks around the orbit

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

henry literally batted one of RHM's strongest attacks around the orbit

Yeah. After using all of his energy to do so and then being one shotted by that attack anyway after it did a full circle around the planet

Also you completely ignored the other examples I provided

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Yeah. After using all of his energy to do so and then being one shotted by that attack anyway after it did a full circle around the planet

Also you completely ignored the other examples I provided

ignored other examples.

Yeah, sorta, but that's how henry stickmin really works. very inconsistent. I'd still say with henry ultimately prevailing cyber henry should scale