Felicia Mitsuki vs. The Doom Slayer

[DTG499]

I linked the descriptions for the abilities to explain them with my comment. Skill seal is just a name and so is dazzle.

She resists stun and several general status effects too tho.

It doesn't tell me how long the stun lasts just that it's there. And how fast does curse kill you? Stat reduction won't matter when he has the power ups on. Doomguy doesn't have any weaknesses that she can take advantage of.

 

[DTG499]

I'd let DDM or someone else explain, since I'm finding it hard to believe they all actively ignored site rules for DOOM.

Since when was that a rule? I've seen plenty of other video game characters that have abilities and stats from game mechanics. If the game mechanics line up with what the lore is telling them or if they don't have any lore they use them.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well if we're going by the anime, the abilities (at least judging by their constant connects, last enough for a battle or about a few minutes).

The boosts / reductions themselves allow the characters to effectively one-shot familiars and witches from Kamihama who scale to the same feat Felicia currently scales to.

I'm not sure if his power ups include durability, does it. Because she affects durability the most.

 

[DTG499]

Well anyway since we got the heat thing sorted out. I vote Doomguy. Via heat hax, WAY more experience, higher intelligence and power ups.

 

[Jaakubb]

He has an invulnerability sphere but I'm honestly not sure how much it would help since all the demons he fights are way weaker than him.

 

[DTG499]

He has an invulnerability sphere but I'm honestly not sure how much it would help since all the demons he fights are way weaker than him.

It just makes him immune to any damage from people on his level.

 

[SomebodyData]

@DTG no, heat hax never got 'sorted out'. Mr.Bambu hasn't responded to my comment clarifing things nor did he mention anything pro-Doomguy, just wanted to clarify things from his point of view.

Seems like you're just making an assumption on the invulnerability, since even Jaakubb points out the characters he's fought are way weaker.

"Since when was that a rule?"

Not using game mechanics has been a rule since, like, forever. The only exceptions are few like Undertale for in-verse reasons.

 

[DTG499]

I haven't seen that rule put in process. I know that if we have something in the lore that directly contradicts the gameplay we use it over what is shown, I get that. But to completely ignore game play even when it lines up with the lore? I don't see that as being evident.

 

[SomebodyData]

Game Mechanics =/= Gameplay. Maybe that's where you're getting the contradiction from?

 

[Jaakubb]

DTG doesnt even have to prove that the verse treats heat and normal AP differently. Unless theres any evidence that the verse doesnt, the default assumption is that it does.

 

[DTG499]

Game Mechanics =/= Gameplay. Maybe that's where you're getting the contradiction from?

Please explain to me how gameplay and game mechanics are in any way different? The function of gameplay comes the game mechanics, it's absurd to say they are not the same thing.

 

[Jaakubb]

Pretty sure what SD means by "gameplay mechanics" is "gameplay mechanics-induced stupidity."

 

[DTG499]

I hope so lol. But either way, if he means game mechanic limitations that's not applicable here because my point is that a 9-B weapon isn't doing any damage to 9-C is because heat is treated as a resistance. The lore of the flame belch backs this up.

 

[DTG499]

? It's zero damage to all demons, from the dinky low 9-C zombies to the 9-A barrons. What do you mean by friendly troops?

 

[SomebodyData]

By game mechanics, I mean damage and HP and all that stuffs.

The lore suggests that the demons, regardless of durability lack fire manip resist as they're even the strongest are affected by 1000c heat.

In gameplay, they're shown to all take damage too.

But then we got characters surviving the BFG, who would be getting hit by heat a lot hotter. Which either means that the Spider mastermind and etc aren't actually 8-B or that it does actually scale to durability.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What lore suggests the demons are saying by 1000c heat?

 

[Jaakubb]

Specific numbers then? Like x weapon dealing 20 damage while y weapon (which we know to be 30 kilotons) deals 40 damage and you get AP from these numbers.

 

[DTG499]

 

[DTG499]

By game mechanics, I mean damage and HP and all that stuffs.

The lore suggests that the demons, regardless of durability lack fire manip resist as they're even the strongest are affected by 1000c heat.

In gameplay, they're shown to all take damage too.

But then we got characters surviving the BFG, who would be getting hit by heat a lot hotter. Which either means that the Spider mastermind and etc aren't actually 8-B or that it does actually scale to durability.

No they do have fire manipulation resistance because a 9-C isn't dying in one hit from what would be a 9-B level attack.

Why wouldn't the spider master mind be 8-B? The 8-B rating for the BFG isn't from it's heat it's from its feat of killing the spider mastermind.

 

[Jaakubb]

Tbh that makes no sense. Spider mastermind scales to 8-B because it survived an attack that can hurt spider mastermind, which is 8-B. Circular reasoning.

 

[DTG499]

I think they were down scaling. As in a point blank BFG shot hits way hard than one a distance. I believe that was the reasoning.

 

[SomebodyData]

Actually the 8-B comes from vaporization, which depending on what you guys argue is either durability negation or proof for my point.

That and yeah, Jaakub jas a point.

 

[Jangles211]

On the icebomb, apparently to flash freeze something in an instantaneous time frame (a human for that matter, much less a demon with an extremely high body temp) would have to be massively beyond an absolute zero temp.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. The lore suggests demons (actual demons, not the zombie fodder) live and literally come from Hell, a realm made almost solely of fire. The lore also suggests several of these demons are literally on fire/have lava within them at all times. The flame belch reasoning seems pretty weak acknowledging this.

2. You would need to be both 8-B and resistant to heat to a certain level to survive the BFG, I believe is the idea in the wiki currently. The BFG is both AP and heat resist, feat wise. I'm not sure what the idea is behind the "circular scaling of the Spider Mastermind" when it has a feat, the BFG.

 

[SomebodyData]

1. I'll let DTG and Jaakuub defend themselves here to not accidently strawman them.

2. I think he's refering to the fact that the BFG vaporized the Spider Mastermind, ie the thing that its supposed to scale to.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. Idrc what they say, that is the truth of it. I'm not invested in the thread or its outcome so much as begrudgingly not unfollowing.

2. I see. Honestly with the new DOOM game it could probably be done more safely by just using the mass of another character, but yeah, I can see how that'd be weird.

 

[SomebodyData]

2. Looking at Doom Eternal, the BFG doesn't vaporize even regular foes or even depict any heat nearing the 2 million kelvi. Though it does show to fragment them, but that would be AP. Would be kinda weird to use the mass of another character when this is the case.

I feel like an argument could be made that while the BFG is described at a certain heat, its never actually shown vaporizing anything outside of the Spider Mastermind apparently. But yeah, since you're not invested in the thread, I'll probably leave that aside.

 

[Jangles211]

Well if it literally vaporized them then it would be less gory, might be why even tho the ballista codex states it vaporizes it's target it doesn't actually do so in gameplay (to preserve the gory aspect)

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

2. Looking at Doom Eternal, the BFG doesn't vaporize even regular foes or even depict any heat nearing the 2 million kelvi. Though it does show to fragment them, but that would be AP. Would be kinda weird to use the mass of another character when this is the case.

I feel like an argument could be made that while the BFG is described at a certain heat, its never actually shown vaporizing anything outside of the Spider Mastermind apparently. But yeah, since you're not invested in the thread, I'll probably leave that aside.

It vaporizers their bodily fluids, which causes the flesh to explode into gore. That could lead to some problem with its tiering though.

 

[SomebodyData]

Oh that makes a lot more sense, yeah, that does cause problems though, since it seems the calc is assuming everything got vaporized.

 

[DTG499]

1. The lore suggests demons (actual demons, not the zombie fodder) live and literally come from Hell, a realm made almost solely of fire. The lore also suggests several of these demons are literally on fire/have lava within them at all times. The flame belch reasoning seems pretty weak acknowledging this.

Not my point. The 1000 C flame belch does actual zero damage to demons and fodder equally. The temperature of lava ranges from 700 to 1200 C. The flame belch is completely within the ball park of recorded heat resistance.

 

[Randomlamdom]

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