Fallen London's Conceptual Manipulation

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Salt is a Type 2 Concept himself, tho, and since The Dawn Machine is implied to be capable of killing him, at the very least that thing would have type 2.

 

[The_Causality]

And just on a neutral note, some other profile treat Type 3 as Type 2, i'll probably make a Conceptual Hunt soon

 

[Assaltwaffle]

And the concept of math will be present so long as math is. That's what Type 3 entails.

You can destroy the concept of math on a Type 3 scale and I don't know what even implies you can't.

Specific concepts, like math, aren't Type 2 or 3 because of what they are. A concept falls into a type because of what interpretation of universals they go by and that type is universal to all the concepts in that conceptual framework. You can't mix them unless the verse specifically makes such a thing a part of their cosmology.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Maybe, not 100% sure. I'd like more admin input from people who understand this stuff better tho.

 

[RotofBots]

I trust Assalt's judgement.

Was literally the admin that spear-headed the changes to Conceptual Manipulation to what they are right now. You don't get much "better" than him tbh.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Is there anything that proves the concept of math is unbound by its objects, which would be required for a type 2 concept?

Type 3 concepts can be destroyed indirectly by destroying all objects of the concept.

Type 2 concepts aren't bound by the objects, hence the "transcending reality" part.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

A way to prove it would to show that the universal in question existed before, will exist after, or can in any way exist with zero objects of it in the reality it governs.

 

[DMB_1]

bump

 

[The_Causality]

At this point we just wait Kalt's opinion (if necessary) about this before proceding the downgrade

but if we think that it isn't necessary, we can do it now.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

BTW the full version of sunless skies is coming out later this year and will probably change a lot

 

[Kaltias]

Math was quite literally made up by humanity in order to understand the world better.

"One plus one equals two" is a convention.

If whoever invented math said that "one plus one equals futiuy", then it would work that way.

Numbers are just a tool that we use to understand stuff that already exists, like language

 

[Udlmaster]

Exactly what I said.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

When I said "math" I meant numerical logic, not the Type 4 concept

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Kaltias

That is the system, not the numbers themselves. Math is objective and does not change, but we use things to describe them. It is actually extremely up for debate if math was invented or discovered. However, Fallen London points to it being an objective fact, so we should follow that it is that when discussing this verse. Erasing math ***** with even the stats that work along them, so no, they are not merely describing, but governing.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Kal

What are you trying to say about this situation?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Hmmmm

What about "At least Type 3" for Salt/Deviless/Stone/Dawn Machine then?

 

[The_Causality]

Type 3 seem fine in this case yes.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

What about The Dawn Machine killing salt?

 

[The_Causality]

I would say Type 3 but need more context.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Wait

Salt embodying time is embodying a type 3 concept? What?

Salt is a type 2 concept even if he can't manipulate them

 

[The_Causality]

? what you talk about?

 

[Kaltias]

@Assalt

I wanted to point out that it's definitely not a "defaulted as type 2" sort of thing.

If it does govern reality as Iap said, I think that it should be type 3, unless there is evidence for type 2

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Concept of Time that exists all throughout 4 timelines = Type 2 concept


So


Dawn Machine concept hax = Type 2

 

[The_Causality]

Concept of Time is Type 3 by definition.

 

[DMB_1]

Concept of Time that exists all throughout 4 timelines = Type 2 concept

That's not how it works: Dialga embodies the concept of time across the multiverse, but his concpet is still considered only type 3.

 

[Kaltias]

That's not necessarily the case. It depends from how the concept work.

Dialga is the concept of time throughout countless timelines, and it's type 3

Editodo what are you saying and DMB ninja'd me

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I suppose?

Inb4 sunless skies bumps it back up to type 2

 

[The_Causality]

Oh yeah, Thanks Kalt for your help

Well, i guess Fallen london's conceptual are Type 3 now.

I'll continue my Conceptual Characters hunt another time lol

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Is monika vs salt fair now and if so can it be re added?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

This seems concluded, so, can someone unlock the profiles so the edits can be made?


Also is Salt VS Monika fair again now?

 

[Hykuu]

no

 

[Udlmaster]

Hykuu, if you have the scans for the verse, feel free to drop them, I'll join the side of Type 2 if you have both scans and evidence.

 

[Hykuu]

I mean the scans are already there it's just how we classify them.

 

[The_Causality]

I'am on phone I can't edit the profile, who can do it now?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Kaltias maybe?