Enerjak vs Shar

[ShadowWarrior1999]

True Enerjak vs true form Shar. Both 2-A and speed is equalized. Who wins?

Enerjak: 0

Shar: 3 (ZacharyGrossman273, ABoogieYesSir, Alex Ziggy)

Inconclusive: 0

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I mean, does Enerjak have a counter to Law Manipulation?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I mean, it recently got added:

Resistance to Magic, Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Mind Manipulation and Holy Manipulation

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

What's his counter to passive Gurren Lagann style probability hax?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Since that works on type 4 acausals, none.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Shar spins her drill

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Bump.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Bump

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Shar FRA

 

[AlexZiggy]

Gonna play devil's advocate here, though I will be probably will be blasted for my ignorance, as I know D&D is an extremely tough verse, but I didn't really see resistance to Concept Manip from Shar. So is it possible Enerjak could beat her that way?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Even Low 2-Cs in DnD have concept hax

 

[AlexZiggy]

Yup figured as much. She preety much resists all of his hax and probs him into non existence

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Shar stomps. Badly, from what I can tell. Can anyone tell me a win-condition for Enerjak? If not this is gonna go to the close-dome

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Enerjak has type 2 conceptual manipulation.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Once nonexistent physiology revisions are done shar might get the "I don't exist down to a conceptual level" thingy

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

So she'd be like UKG?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Or Nil

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes. Even then, Shar can resist Concept Hax of the other deities.

 

[Dark_Matter557]

Enerjak easily via omnipresence, for being on a plane far beyond Shar (astral) and for being and having the ability to destroy the concept of "Everything", which extends to a physical and beyond the spiritual level. Shar nonexistent at a conceptual level is extremely vague and depends on the concept too

 

[Dark_Matter557]

massively stomp

 

[Dark_Matter557]

And Shar resisting the conceptual hax is no justification for him to resist the conceptual hax of the level of Enerjak

 

[Mr. Bambu]

> Massive Stomp

> Shar is literally nonexistent as a concept on this level

I'm inclined to agree but not in the way you think. Firstly. Even normal deities resist each other's concept hax, with even lesser deities representing multiversal concepts and being able to battle multiversal living laws, such as the Titans. Secondly, she doesn't exist as a concept on this level of existence- that is what her nonexistence means, the concept of shar is not here and you'd have to whip out 5-D Concept Hax to affect her concept. Thirdly, what does Enerjak actually do to stomp assuming he was actually able to interact with Shar (he can't)? Shar's mindhax is massively above baseline 2-A and her abilities are thoughtbased.

Coincidentally, literally any being in D&D can travel to and interact with the Astral Plane. Including level 1s, if they have the right class (Psions do this a ton). Shar is no different.

 

[Dark_Matter557]

Insufficient, it's just you read what I said again about concepts. And Enerjak himself is on a plane well beyond Shar (astral), but his powers can interact with Shar quietly (Hello, Super Genesis Wave)

 

[Dark_Matter557]

And you it has not yet defined the kind of concept where Shar is nonexistent

 

[Mr. Bambu]

And you it has not yet defined the kind of concept where Shar is nonexistent

All of them. The premise of her kind of nonexistence (same with UKG) is that her concept, the concept of Shar, does not exist on this level of reality. I don't think you understand the implications of that. It means quite literally Enerjak has no way to actually interact with her. Not to mention literally any thought from any deity (Low 2-C and up) equates to 2-A range mindhax that reaches to the Astral Plane. Him being on the Astral doesn't grant him a bonus considering they can interact with such a plane without being there.

I don't see a win condition for Enerjak here, considering Shar negs most of his stuff via Resistances + Regen + Nonexistence + Immortalities.

 

[Dark_Matter557]

I guess you did not read it when I said that Enerjak is well beyond the astral plane, I've said it twice already

 

[Dark_Matter557]

The astral plane of Sonic already is something abstract of the type 1

 

[Mr. Bambu]

D&D can affect Type 1 Abstracts.

 

[Dark_Matter557]

AND? The astral plane is already an abstract type 1, but it is a plane well below Chaos Force

 

[Wokistan]

A type 1 abstract is just a concept. Any sort of concept manip should work.

A type 1 concept is in theory 1-A, so that's not what you mean.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

AND? The astral plane is already an abstract type 1, but it is a plane well below Chaos Force

What

EXACTLY

Prevents Shar from interacting with the guy. Don't say "oh well he's above this plane of existence", both of them are 2-A so being higher than some arbitrary plane of existence. Unless he is literally 5-Dimensional (he isn't) then Shar thinks at him. As far as I can tell, Enerjak cannot interact with Shar at all.

 

[Dark_Matter557]

Dimensionality and Shar being 2-A does not matter at all when the issue here is Enerjak being beyond the astral plane. Can you understand something objective like this?

 

[Wokistan]

But that on its own is pretty meaningless, given DnD's interactions with planes of existence.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Elaborate on how being beyond the Astral Plane means anything at all here.

 

[Dark_Matter557]

Maybe it's because Shar will not be able to interact with him ???

 

[Dark_Matter557]

Shar can not interact with him, but Enerjak with your hax's can

 

[Wokistan]

Why though? Far weaker beings than Shar can move about all sorts of planes and whatever in DnD, and you haven't shown anything indicating that Enerjak would be unable to be interacted with due to that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

^

Dimensional Travel is the simplest thing. As I said, even the lowest level of characters can do it to some extent (Astral Caravan for Psions, for example). From 9-A key and upwards they can travel to practically any plane of existence save for a few sealed off ones. Nothing you've said actually makes it any harder to interact with Enerjak, much less given evidence to allow Enerjak to even touch Shar.

 

[Qawsedf234]

To add to what Bambu is saying Gods are the embodiment of their portfolios. Shar's portfolios are: Caverns, dark, dungeons, forgetfulness, loss, night, the Underdark, unrevealed secrets.

So in other words Shar is darkness. The very concept of darkness cannot exist without Shar being alive (at least until another beings takes it for themselves). By the same token Shar is also the embodiment of nothingness (also dungeons).

 

[Dragopentling]

Unfortunately the mindhax meme can no longer apply here xD

Enerjak just really can't even lay a finger on her, in all honesty.