Empowered By Their Haunted Pasts (Velana vs Ash Jacobson) (0-0-0)

[ThePrimalHunter]

Velana has her powers due to having her family killed by the cult of cthulu, being forced to look at him by the cult members. This resulted in her gaining a connection to him, with Cthulu serving as her patron for her connecting to the arcane. Her powers serving as a constant reminder of those who ruined her life

Ash Jacobson gained his powers after the death of those in his city that left hundreds of thousands of innocent people dead, even those of his own family. His powers constantly being a reminder of those he lost in the attack and how they're forever gone.

Anyways, trauma aside, who wins in a fight?

Cthulus Chosen vs Body Horror

Ground Rules:

• Speed is equalized
• No prior knowledge for either
• They start 10m (30 feet) away from each other
• Fight takes place in an abandoned village
• Winner gets a cookie

Velana scales to 0.102 Tons of TnT
Ash scales to 0.0324 Tons of TnT
Velana has a 3.15x AP advantage

Who Wins?

Cultist: 0 ()
Doctor: 0 ()
Incon: 0 ()

 

[DMUA]

Actually, while it's not really linked on his page directly, Suture is WOG'd to be as strong, and he did this .1 ton feat

Both of them sort of just ignore the other's ability to really enforce wounds they dole out, though True Strike is going to be way less effective on Ash's clones (given they're short lived anyways and really good at soaking damage so it doesn't really hit him at all) than Ash just smashing through potential forcefields like he's canonically done with Mosaic

I'd guess the biggest hurdle is more just the starting range and Ash having his limits on mobilizing around, but a random village should still have stuff like rocks, leftover carts, plenty of things to work with, and he should at least be able to shuffle over in range to grab more

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Ash should be capable of making up for the slight range disadvantage through nearby weapons & stuff

Ash's biggest hurtle will be durability. Velana is pretty tanky, and will be able to soak up quite a bit of damage, with her shields & duplication only helping in that department. Ash meanwhile is only Street level in durability, so if a single eldritch blast manages to get by the clones, Ash will be pulverized with a single hit. Ash seems really good at blocking projectiles though, so Velana would likely have to resort to more AoE attacks like Burning Hands or Arms of Hadar, which don't have the best of range, forcing her to get closer & giving up her main advantage

She is also really combat smart, but so is Ash, so I don't think either of them are simply going to out-tactic the other

Velana might have a battle IQ edge due to outsmarting Hamden in combat, who's an extremley skilled tournament fighter that has only ever lost twice, one of them to an Extraordinary Genius and the other to an ungodly skilled Panrovian knight, but Ash is also an excellent fighter, being on par with professional assassins, so I'm honestly not too sure who wins in the battle IQ question

Pretty much the main question is "Can Velana get past the clones & land a decent shot on Ash before Ash's clones get past her defenses & rip her apart?", and I think good arguements could be made for both sides

 

[Tago238]

Ash having street level durability is more a weakness he has against certain types of AoE attacks and getting caught off guard rather than something that has ever come up in a fight, even against highly skilled and comparably strong opponents.

Personally I don’t think BIQ really makes a difference unless you give a strategy one character can use, though I don’t think it’s necessary. I see this as a pretty clear victory for Velvena as the range and versatility (even though your character has a lot of bad spells rip) advantage while having comparable strength is probably too much for Ash. The only advantage he really maintains is greater lethality and skill but that doesn’t matter if he can keep being sniped.

That said, the ratings for these characters seems a little odd. Ash being 9-A instead of 9-B is sort of wanky from my perspective of having played the game and for Velvena if the cannon was loaded wrong that just means way more gunpowder was put in it than normal, unsurprisingly the KE of a cannon ball doesn’t scale to an amount of gunpowder that could destroy the cannon it’s from (which presumably tends to be operational when it is fired). Besides, as a heat engine stuff like cannons and guns aren’t that efficient.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

and for Velvena if the cannon was loaded wrong that just means way more gunpowder was put in it than normal, unsurprisingly the KE of a cannon ball doesn’t scale to an amount of gunpowder that could destroy the cannon it’s from (which presumably tends to be operational when it is fired). Besides, as a heat engine stuff like cannons and guns aren’t that efficient.

I didn't really properly explain how that feat happened in the calc

So pretty much, these cannon balls act like dynamite. You light it, and it explodes after a limited amount of time. When they loaded the cannon ball wrong, it was because the cannon ball didn't actually fire, thus staying in the cannon when the timer went off & blowing it up. The ghost ship could tank these same explosions, and griffins can damage those ships, so people comparable to griffins scale

Also they scale to fireball anyways so they're 9-A no matter how you look at it

 

[DMUA]

Ash being 9-A instead of 9-B is sort of wanky from my perspective of having played the game

Fed detected

But yeah, they're very evenly matched on account of Ash being able to throw stuff with his clones, and his consistent ability to just block attacks with his clones and either reduce it down to a hit he can manage, or just no damage to him at all

I think hitting harder with Pinpoint and just smashing her shields would give Ash an edge, since unlike Ash she can only bring up her shields so many times on account of spell slots, but it could go either way

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

A strategy Velana could utilize is stealth mastery. It's an abandoned village, so there would be plenty of building and houses nearby to duck inside of. If Ash doesn't know that an eldritch blast is coming at him from a random building, I doubt he could get a clone up before he turns into a bloody splat

Mirror Image might also be helpful as well, as making 3 other versions of herself could trip Ash up long enough to blast him or at the very least close the distance enough to pull a Burning Hands and roast Ash alive (though this does bring into question how Mirror Image works against AoE attacks)

Spell Slots seem to be Velana's biggest weakness here, as the more powerful abilities can't be used too much before she runs out. But eldritch blast is a cantrip so she could just spam that like a machine gun if she really needed too

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Bump

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Bump

 

[Tago238]

Fed detected

But yeah, they're very evenly matched on account of Ash being able to throw stuff with his clones, and his consistent ability to just block attacks with his clones and either reduce it down to a hit he can manage, or just no damage to him at all

I think hitting harder with Pinpoint and just smashing her shields would give Ash an edge, since unlike Ash she can only bring up her shields so many times on account of spell slots, but it could go either way

Well, also it would be disingenuous to say she could block everything with a shield anyway, given it expends a reaction (and in Weaverdice Ash can attack twice).


Thinking about it, I don’t think Velvena’s spells really seem lethal enough to kill Ash without accidentally activating comeback king and enhancing his lethality twofold.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Well, also it would be disingenuous to say she could block everything with a shield anyway, given it expends a reaction (and in Weaverdice Ash can attack twice).


Thinking about it, I don’t think Velvena’s spells really seem lethal enough to kill Ash without accidentally activating comeback king and enhancing his lethality twofold.

I think the first thing would just fall under gameplay mechanics, so I don't think that is a factor at all. It's not like Velana is going to stand there idle for 6 seconds after casting an Eldritch Blast

Also what is comeback king? That is not listed anywhere on Ash's profile

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Bump

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Bump

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Bump

 

[DMUA]

I think the first thing would just fall under gameplay mechanics, so I don't think that is a factor at all. It's not like Velana is going to stand there idle for 6 seconds after casting an Eldritch Blast

Also what is comeback king? That is not listed anywhere on Ash's profile

It's mentioned rather offhand in Duplication, but whenever he takes injuries he starts being capable of making more clones, effectively doubling the amount of times he can attack (which really makes him dangerous when he can pinpoint, and using his axe at that)

A strategy Velana could utilize is stealth mastery. It's an abandoned village, so there would be plenty of building and houses nearby to duck inside of. If Ash doesn't know that an eldritch blast is coming at him from a random building, I doubt he could get a clone up before he turns into a bloody splat

He can also just smash the buildings apart if they really insist on going guerilla, and he'd be able to see the general direction of where they went even if they can conceal themselves on a dime like this.

Mirror Image might also be helpful as well, as making 3 other versions of herself could trip Ash up long enough to blast him or at the very least close the distance enough to pull a Burning Hands and roast Ash alive (though this does bring into question how Mirror Image works against AoE attacks)

One thing Ash can do in particular is just hit the ground to send a ton of shrapnel flying out, I remember him easily covering a huge fire through just doing that. If it just requires a single hit, that could very well make it a lot less useful

But eldritch blast is a cantrip so she could just spam that like a machine gun if she really needed too

Yeah, but that more allows her to match Ash's destructive potential than strictly overwhelm his defense

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Update on this match: My party recently had a session with feats that might be able to push the characters to 8-C, so this match might soon be outdated. I have to do a few calcs, but we might have to call this match due to an AP stomp depending on what I get

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Update: Velana's 8-C now. This match is outdated

 

[Tago238]

Ngl, I really don’t understand putting high tier feats in your DND game. It kind of messes a lot of things up if characters actually play as being anywhere above 9-C- low level 9-B (I also don’t know if it’s a good idea for the DM to participate in matches discussions lol).

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Ngl, I really don’t understand putting high tier feats in your DND game. It kind of messes a lot of things up if characters actually play as being anywhere above 9-C- low level 9-B (I also don’t know if it’s a good idea for the DM to participate in matches discussions lol).

I also didn't ask so there's that too

 

[Tago238]

I also didn't ask so there's that too

Don't make matches for your own DND game and then pathetically insert feats that very, very obviously break any DND game without adding stupid ass shit like "magic walls" in your dungeon which contrives your world just so you can avoid having PCs win fights and shit.

 

[Volt12121]

What's with the hostility here? Having played DND games before 8-C is generously low considering what the verse actually pulls in CANON stuff.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Don't make matches for your own DND game and then pathetically insert feats that very, very obviously break any DND game without adding stupid ass shit like "magic walls" in your dungeon which contrives your world just so you can avoid having PCs win fights and shit.

Bro, it's not that deep. Chill lol

I don't recall me ever talking about "magic walls" or shit like that, and I don't really know why you're assuming that I added stuff like that. That comment just kind of came out of nowhere lmao, and I don't even know what point you were trying to prove with it

If you don't like high-tiered D&D, that's totally okay and valid. But like, 50% of the D&D characters on the wiki are higher tiers than my guys. Hell, even D&D on VS Battles Wiki has basic creatures that scale higher than the guys in my campaign, so there's really no reason to start attacking my campaign in particular. If high-tiered fantasy characters aren't your thing, then that's your opinion and is completly fine, just don't participate in the discussions involving them then. Boom, easy. Problem solved

 

[Tago238]

What's with the hostility here? Having played DND games before 8-C is generously low considering what the verse actually pulls in CANON stuff.

Not really nah. If you have your players be consistently 8-C in practice then your game is unironically ******.

Bro, it's not that deep. Chill lol

I can't actually remember if I was needled at the time but I'm not really mad rn, tone just ain't conveyed in text and my words sounded harsh cause my opinion on the topic is pretty harsh.

I don't recall me ever talking about "magic walls" or shit like that, and I don't really know why you're assuming that I added stuff like that. That comment just kind of came out of nowhere lmao, and I don't even know what point you were trying to prove with i

I was saying you can only do high tier DND by having the walls you don't want be broken magic, which is, uh... dumb.

If you don't like high-tiered D&D, that's totally okay and valid. But like, 50% of the D&D characters on the wiki are higher tiers than my guys. Hell, even D&D on VS Battles Wiki has basic creatures that scale higher than the guys in my campaign, so there's really no reason to start attacking my campaign in particular. If high-tiered fantasy characters aren't your thing, then that's your opinion and is completly fine, just don't participate in the discussions involving them then. Boom, easy. Problem solved

I just don't see any game which is supposed to involve dungeons by name working while being super high tier.

 

[Volt12121]

Not really nah. If you have your players be consistently 8-C in practice then your game is unironically ******.

Dude, the game i played with friends made us like consistently tier 7, we faced many enemies that were gonna destroy cities and we even got push as far as ******* 5-B cause in the DM's game an angel came down to nuke earth with its magic and we beat it up. Not everyone make things the same and you shouldn't judge stuff based on how you personally like it to be done

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Yeah, what Volt said

Also, just because they have 8-C feats in lore doesn't mean that I let them play like that. I'm obviously not going to just let them effortlessly blast through doors or walls I put in dungeons. In the God Of War games, Kratos can litteraly destroy universes, but in game he can't smash through a metal door even though he is obviously a multiversal character. Does that automatically make the series bad?

Simply assuming that I just let my players walk around like building destroying gods that can plow through any object instantly is kind of stupid. idk if you had a DM that did stuff like that or something, but I promise you not every DM does that. You can let your players have impressive feats and still not be able to blast through a wooden door. Your players won't think twice about it, because my players have never though twice about it and they love to call me out on inconsistancies.

This thread is outdated anyways. I'm going to try and ask a mod to close this