Electro Upgrade?

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I'm a little confused by that panel. Is the Thunderstorm stretching into the Horizon? It kind of looks like that, with the sqibbles but I'm not sure. Is there anything else to back up the scale of it?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I can check the issue again.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

More views of the storm

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I see the Spider-Man feat as an outlier, and as unreliable for the reasons outlined by LordXcano in the previous thread.

However, that can wait until later. I would appreciate if somebody can calculate the Electro feat.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Electro's feat will likely yield the same level, if maybe slightly higher and apparently Spider-Man has another Tier 7 feat somewhere with him surviving the destruction of a mountain.

EndlessMike and the OBD are okay with Small Town Spider-Man and most people disagreed with Cano's reasoning. I don't see why it's an outlier and/or unreliable.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, let's at least let LordXcano recalculate the feat. I much prefer straightforward ones, such as Spider-Man's Daily Bugle feat.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Darkanine should calculate the mountain-exploding that Spidey survived.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

If you have the issue, I'll do it when I get time.

 

[Antvasima]

That would be preferable to scale from, yes. I really dislike the Hulk with the spheres feat, and would prefer if we use Spider-Man's Massively Hypersonic feats from dodging Electro's discharges instead, along with some other high durability/attack potency feat.

 

[Antvasima]

LordXcano calculated some dodging Electro feats in a blog yesterday.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Electro has another high-tier feat where he destroys an entire pier, by the way.

 

[Antvasima]

Here is LordXcano's blog post, if anybody wants to check it up:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LordXcano/Some_Spider-Man_Speed_Feats

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Again, Spider-Man being triple-digit mach in speed is nothing new. It's consistent with the speed feats of other Marvel heroes.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but I much prefer if we scale his speed from the dodging Electro's discharges feats instead of the one with the spheres.

 

[LordXcano]

Didn't we have a big discussion post a while back about how storms generally don't scale to conventional AP as otherwise they wouldn't have a need for the lightning coming from said storms?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Pretty sure most if not everyone are fine with scaling storms to regular AP. We do so for virtually every verse.

And if I recall, the consensus on said discussion back then was that scaling storms to AP was completely acceptable.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you mean?

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, doesn't Electro have other fairly high-level city-spanning feats as well?

 

[LordXcano]

I mean if someone is casually capable of outputting a kilotons of energy in the form of direct attacks why in the world would they bother using the lightning from the clouds? Why not just shoot it from their hands like normal?

As for the thread, I found it here. The relevant bit is this comment a bit down the thread, which seemed to be pretty unanimously agreed upon, including by you Matt.

EDIT: This is also apparently the same reason we downgraded RWBY, up until that Grimm Dragon feat was calculated.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Once again, if you can easily create a thunderstorm and you can shoot energy beams from your hands and often put more effort into the later, you can totally scale the energy attacks to the thunderstorm.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Matthew about that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We seemed to mostly have dropped that altogether, given that literally no profiles have changed in result of it. The storm from RWBY just wasn't as high as ranked, as it was astronomically smaller. Note how the MK verse is still the same, and iirc, Digimon was just upgraded via some hurricane calc.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Most people agreed that Thunderstorms and other Weather Manipulation feats are totally usable. Very few people disagreed and most did so with rather weak arguments. Most admins and users were and still are okay with it.

I'm busy and exhausted right now, but I'll calc the thunderstorm feat later tonight.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Just looking at the old thread, most people agreed that you can totally scale thunderstorms to AP, just look at Skod's, my own and Promestein's posts, as well as the additional commentary by Sera Loveheart and VenomElite.

So there was never any need to change any standard, and the only overall consensus on the thread was that these issues need to be a case-by-case analysis, similar to how pretty much most things should be treated.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/580243#252

I requested the waterfront destruction feat to be calced here, btw.

 

[LordXcano]

@Dark Don't bother, the feat is out of context anyway. Spider-Man enters a warehouse, as he says here, and the sky as all messed up. He says he's in a "post apocalypstic" New York and wonders what's going on. A few pages later Sandman clarifies Mysterio is messing with his head and that's why New York seems all messed up and why he isn't "in a warehouse" anymore.

Spider-Man then "pulls down the roof" from the "sky" and breaks the illusio, showing they were in a warehouse the entire time.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Oh well. I'm pretty sure Electro has made actual thunderstorms in other issues.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

He has, if memory serves. He also can create giant lightning bolts that are larger than entire buildings.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If I learned one thing from Saint Seiya feats, it's that just because it's done in an illusion, doesn't mean that they can't do that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If I learned one thing from Saint Seiya feats, it's that just because it's done in an illusion, doesn't mean that they can't do that.

Saint Seiya feats aren't illusions either, that argument usually comes from downplayers trying to say that the exploding planets and stars you see when Gemini Saints use the Galaxian Explosions are just a visual effect, and thus the attack isn't really Galaxy level.

Even though the Galaxian Explosion is considered Galaxy level for entirely different reasons, which is that it is repeatedly stated ad-exhaustion by both characters and narration that it is at least Galaxy level.

Unless you are actually referring to Gemini Saga's Real Illusions, which are so life-like they actually physically hurt you. Which is a legitimate example of an illusion that scales to physical feats.

 

[LordXcano]

ƒñö

Please tell me Saint Seiya isn't scaled off of an illusion feat

EDIT: Regardless, unless we have scans of Electro forming storms over a whole city there's no reason to assume he can just on hearsay

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I was talking about Gemini Saga, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, my memory is fuzzy regarding most of the comics that I have read over the years, but I do seem to recall Electro draining New York City of all its electrical power on a few occasions. If somebody could find and calculate those feats, it would be useful.

As for the general approach to weather manipulation, I think that we only decided that, for example, causing it to rain might not be a good indication of directly destructive AP, whereas causing a lightning storm should be scalable.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That, mostly. For example, Raiden's storm calc is legit, but using the Pokemon move Rain Dance isn't.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Saint Seiya characters are scaled out of Aries Mu at 13 years old casually erasing a universe containing countless stars created by Iapetus, and then creating an even larger universe to rain down starlight from it.

And Saga's Galaxian Explosion which is 3-C even when Saga is holding back tremendously.

By their best feats, the Gold Saints are actually Universe level anyway, such as the time Seiya's full power was compared to the Big Bang by omniscient narration.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Matt, I was solely talking about Gemini Saga's Buddha's hand thing.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ah, that was Virgo Shaka's thing. And that's also legit because Ikki was dead-sure he crossed quadrillions of kilometers, and the whole attack is a reference to Journey to the West with Sun Wukong crossing the universe but remaining in Buddha's Hand.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm honestly laughing at how off I was with the person and the attack name. But yeah, that's the feat I was talking about.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's hilarious to try to dismiss that feat as an "illusion", as the page literally measures the distance Ikki is crossing with a series of numbers such as 10^34, 10^35, 10^36, etc.