Egg Wizard/Salamander's speed

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Understandably it can be frustrating, however you still have to be able to keep a cool head. You can't let that kind of stuff get out of control as nothing good comes out of it in the end. The wiki also did make progress in no longer dismissing any super form feat above 5-A an outlier (that stuff was before I joined anyways).

Anyways I think we've derailed from the topic far enough. We should have the speed issue settled.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Shaow. I commend you for continuing to be incredibly likeable.

 

[Sera_EX]

Groveling at the staff's feet? That's a gross-exaggeration. The staff don't portray themselves as the "Lords of Vs. Battles whose word is absolute and anyone that disagrees with them shall be smited!" This isn't OBD.

It was hard enough for me to get Tier 2 Sonic accepted in the first place. It took three freaking threads, being discussions spanning 400+ replies each. I know how frustrating it can be. That was probably hardest revision I've ever done.

We simply just cannot give out our highest rankings without asking for as much evidence as can possibly be given. If we don't we'll have too many exaggerated profiles with overhyped feats like we once had pre-Antvasima/Kavpeny. The staff spend more time than anyone else here reviewing CRTs, editing the pages, and organizing wiki projects all while dealing with more harassment than your average wiki from trolls and even other communities that simply don't like us. So they are frustrated just as anyone else. We all contribute yes, but the staff onjectively handle a lot more since it's part of their role as moderators.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I disagree with immeasurable speed. Solaris was anchored to one space time. Which means each hedgehog was in one past, one present and one future. They also could have simply time traveled to those points in time. Plus there were time rifts all over the dimension they were in, and if it was a true void then how would Eggman one the other base characters move and how would there be different points in time?

 

[Sera_EX]

The Chaos Emeralds do grant control over space and time, it'd be ridiculous to assume they don't have time travel.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I know that, but that just gives them more reasons to not give them immeasurable speed. Rifts and the ability to travel through time.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I heard there was once a time where every single character who has or fought someone with a Black Hole feat was assumed to be 4-B or above. And yeah, the in depth lore about Chaos Emerald being stronger when used against beings of Evil, and only giving Sonic and crew as much power as needed was really the only reason Sonic got Tier 2 or Infinite speed to begin with.

And of course they have Time Travel, but no Immeasurable speed. It's not like they had that speed forever, or where able to go everywhere and every when period. Being perform an infinite number of actions before a Planck Time has passed is a requirement for Infinite reaction speeds, and Immeasurable speed characters have to see those as completely frozen among other things.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I disagree with immeasurable speed. Solaris was anchored to one space time. Which means each hedgehog was in one past, one present and one future. They also could have simply time traveled to those points in time. Plus there were time rifts all over the dimension they were in, and if it was a true void then how would Eggman one the other base characters move and how would there be different points in time?

Eggman and the other characters were in a rift, not a void. The hedgehogs after going super escaped the rift to fight Solaris in a void. I already went over that with Cal.

Solaris is temporally omnipresent so he exists all across time, so it's not just one past, one present, and one future. Solaris being anchored means nothing here.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If the hedgehogs were immeasurable, especially for the reasons being given, then there wouldn't have been a need to bring Sonic back, if each Super form could attack at infinite points in time anyway and there wouldn't need to be one in the past, present, and future.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

^True though

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

Think about though,The present is the future relative to the past but the past relative to the future,the only way to rationalize the concept is to consider immeasurable being a thing.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Again, then it wouldn't have been impossible without Sonic.

Lavos, someone who's temporally omnipresent across infinite timelines, was killed (temporarily) by Crono, who's not immeasurable.

 

[Dark649]

Crono only killed the 5-A MFTL+ Lavos. Serge used the Chrono Trigger and Cross in order to keep up with it.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

If the hedgehogs were immeasurable, especially for the reasons being given, then there wouldn't have been a need to bring Sonic back, if each Super form could attack at infinite points in time anyway and there wouldn't need to be one in the past, present, and future.

It's the hedgehogs each attacked Solaris in 1/3 of all points in time.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Dark. I'm aware. As I said, if Sonic was to be immeasurable (which Matt, DDM, and I still say no to), it would be due to scaling from Solaris like Crono scales to Lavos. Not because of that reasoning.

@Shadow. The "anchored down to this dimension" thing does actually mean a lot. Solaris is higher dimensional. Eggman (the person saying this) is 3 dimensional. If Solaris was anchored down to the third dimension, it doesn't have the things that would be innate to a fourth dimensional being, immeasurable speed being one of them. Justified by the fact that Eggman can clearly perceive the fight (before you say that other characters across fiction can see when people far outside their weight class are dukeing it out, recall that unlike someone like Goku Black, this is the only appearance of Solaris and the instance where he's perceived by others is the speed feat in question).

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Eggman was referring to dimension as a universe, not a dimensional plane. Because in the previous sentence he said "he eats dimensions for lunch."

I should also point out that being 4D doesn't always mean you're immeasurable. Case in point.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I mean, if he eats the timeline, he's eaten the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and parts of the 4th dimension, making that statement technically true. I'll admit that one was a reach ovo.

In all seriousness, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If he's referring to universes, then Solaris is not higher dimensional, all instances of immeasurable speed goes down the drain, and even infinite may possibly follow. If Eggman is referring to actual dimensions, the statement remains and the Hedgehogs were fighting a (temporarily) nerfed (in speed only) Solaris.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Solaris is specifically stated to be a "super-dimensional being" and "a transcendent life form that exists in the past, present, and future." It's not even arguable on whether or not Solaris is higher-dimensional, because those statements show he is.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Superdimensional being comes from the same sentence where you're saying that Eggman is referring to universes.

Keep in mind that I do think Solaris is higher dimensional, btw.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Universes in Sonic games are referred to as dimensions, like the Sol Dimension.

Otherwise Solaris would be High 1-B.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Ded thread? (-.-)

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody remind me of the TLDR conclusions here?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think it was generally agreed to downgrade Egg Wizard and Egg Salamander to Massively FTL+ speed, not sure about other characters such as Super Sonic or Time Eater. I want to here what Cal, Matt, Dark649 or Sera think though.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.