Edelgard vs Lucina

[KobsterHope07]

The path that Edelgard walks, while necessary, is a very bloody one. She will engulf the continent in war and bloodshed to achieve her ambition of a world for humanity. In order for such reach her goals, she will need strong allies. As such, she expand her search and heard tales of a ruler of a huge kingdom, far beyond the reach of Fodlan, that have save her land from a terrible apocalyptic dragon. Can she convince the ruler of Ylisse, who is very experience when dealing with powerful dragon, to help her with her dream and topple the Church of Seiros led by the Immaculate One?

Fighters: Post Timeskip Edelgard and Future Past Lucina

Tier: High 6-C

Location: Arena Ferox from FE: Awakening



Votes:-

Reach for my hand:

I challenge my fate:

Inconclusive:

 

[TheGatememer]

What can Edelgard do against her passive mindhax?

 

[KobsterHope07]

Not sure but Commander have the ability of nullifying status effects so perhaps that would prevent the passive Mind Manipulation

 

[TheGatememer]

Her mindhax isn't a status effect so it wouldn't work

 

[KobsterHope07]

Her mindhax isn't a status effect

I mean, in the Status Effect Inducement page, Mind Manipulation is listed as a type of status effect

 

[TheGatememer]

Yea, but in Fire Emblem, its not treated as a status effect.

 

[KobsterHope07]

Isn’t the Berserk staff sorta like Mind Manipulation, but eh, I let the Fire Emblem experts decide on this case

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It would nullify things like sleep, silence, and berserk; but abilities like that don't really null Imhullu or Darksphere.

 

[KobsterHope07]

Really? So nothing is stopping Edelgard from being passive mindhax then

 

[Bobepipipiri]

Mind hax is not passive and has to be directly activated with the dark sphere.
It is also something that is utterly out of character for Chrom/Lucina/Marth to even consider using, also not even a game mechanic or even mentioned in Awakening. Its just something that they have.

I assume SBA, so they are still in character. (Also the darksphere only affects those with already dark emotions and causes them to be corrupted in the lore of FE3 and will also corrupt Lucina if she uses it willingly.
Its passive effects are completely absent in any entry that is mystery of the emblem, implying only garneff can use it to this degree. Also several details about the stones and the shield of seals are different between FE3 and Awakening such as the Shield of Seals being used so the falchion is exalted and able to seal Grima instead of sealing Earth Dragons.

It is also implied the passive mind hax is not longer a thing in awakening since Validar would have been untoucheable by Chrom and Robin (Who replaced all other 4 stones with fakes in the new timeline), Also, Sable/Darksphere's power was effectively nullified the moment it was slotted into the Fire Emblem, canceled out by Argent/the Lightsphere. So i even doubt even a bloodlusted Lucina COULD use its effects with the lightsphere hanging on her shoulder.)

Lucina is more experienced at fighting monsters than people due to her upbringing in Future Past while Edelgard has a bit more experience dueling with several weapons but to be fair, she lived a far more "secure" life than Lucina and thus, didn't need to train "as" hard.
---

Id give this to Edelgard thru raw training and experience under Byleth and her skills lets her keep attacking over and over while Lucina's real one shot, Aether is kept from being fired even with vantage since Edelgard can attack before it triggers.

 

[Bobepipipiri]

(And while this is outside the battle. I am pretty sure FP Lucina will have a hard time believing any dragon that is not Tiki would be good natured due to her Grima trauma, so she'd most likely help Edelgard to kill Rhea as long the empress does not reveal too much unnecessary info.)

 

[TheGatememer]

If the Shield of Seals had ALL of the effects of the 5 gemstones, then it would be broken beyond belief ingame. Plus, it wouldn't make much sense for it to all the sudden lose all of it's power.

The Darksphere affects anyone, only difference is that it corrupts the user without the lightsphere, but negates attacks via possessing the attacker's mind. Also, while this isn't exactly legit, Medeus is the only unit in the game that is not affected by the effects of the Darksphere according to the game files.

Also, the Lightsphere seems to only cancel out the effects of the Darksphere for the user holding it, seeing as it still affects members of the party that are not in possession of the Lightsphere.

 

[Naito-desu]

Lucina is more experienced at fighting monsters than people due to her upbringing in Future Past while Edelgard has a bit more experience dueling with several weapons but to be fair, she lived a far more "secure" life than Lucina and thus, didn't need to train "as" hard.

I'm sorry but no, she may have fought monsters, but those were Risen and not just bumbling buffoons with beastly fighting. Risen that were more or less skilled enough to be on par with the other heroes of FE13 and to fight them one on one. They were undead, sure but I don't think the distinction is big enough that fighting Edelgard and fighting an armed Risen are two completely different things.

 

[Naito-desu]

Anyway, I'm going Lucina personally because of weapon triangle advantage, because I think Future Past Lucina's passive mindhax is too strong.

Similar topic but I haven't played Future Past, where's the massive mindhax that Lucina uses?

 

[TheGatememer]

The darksphere/passive mindhax isn't usable ingame just due to how broken it would be. Though Lucina should still have the abilities of the gemstones, considering she does have them.

 

[Bobepipipiri]

I disagree.
You guys did not adress that Chrom is not affected by the Darksphere while fighting validar without any legit gemstones on the final Awakening timeline, nor that the passive mindhax effect of the DS is also corrupting if the lightsphre was not there to subdue it and that no opponent in Awakening is affected by it. (More evidence to its powers being rendered useless when anywhere near the Lightsphere.)

It being too powerful for gameplay is clearly contradicted by you being able to use the SoS on FE3/Mystery of the Emblem. Not to mention extremely out of character for SBA FP Lucina to even consider using individually.

While i agree that Risen are not mindless, they are clearly shown to be savage and beast-like in their battle tactics unlike the several highly trained royals and human opponents Edelgard had to face. While i do think Edelgard has the slight experience advantage, i think it is a far less decisive factor than i thought on this matchup.

 

[Naito-desu]

Risen were mindless for sure but they still had the know-how to keep up against even the most skilled heroes in the game. At worst, they're just slightly rusty warriors that are bloodlusted, but could easily be just as skilled as the FE13 characters they've killed.

 

[Bobepipipiri]

I do think it is fair to assume Dimitri / Claude to be >>>>>>> Risen.
And based on Noire's backstory, some of the finishing blows were dealt thru self sacrifice or being taken off guard, as with Tharja.

While it is worth discussing if Lucina or Edel had the best teacher with Chrom / Byleth, i think the skills both have do favor Edelgard clearly.

 

[Bobepipipiri]

i still think Edelgard takes this juuuust barely.

 

[KobsterHope07]

BUMP

 

[Bobepipipiri]

buump

 

[Bobepipipiri]

bump