- 12,252
- 6,204
wouldn't it be better to create a rule about demoting Universes to 3-A? Because the evidence has been shown, maybe in the future it will create chaos
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Dragonball cosmology revision: Part 2
- Thread starter Reiner04
- Start date
- Status
- 9,982
- 10,821
- Thread starter
- #42
There already is. Do not attempt to change dragonball cosmology unless new information comes. This thread will just add up as even current new information regarding RoSaT is not enough neither tier 2 revision has affected it.
- 12,252
- 6,204
So this can be closed thank you my brother
- 3,512
- 5,234
This was debunked but we can add further justification I can handle
- 9,982
- 10,821
- Thread starter
- #45
Add a new note regarding RoSaT and just explain it there why it's still a part of macrocosm while being outside of living universe even when talking into account the statement of frieza. Justification can stay as it is.
- 9,982
- 10,821
- Thread starter
- #47
Zen'ō
So, see I was thinking, see, maybe next time I'll try gathering fighters from all the universes, see...We'll do a tournament then, see. Sometime soon, see.Zen’ō to Goku after watching his fight with Hit Zen'ō (全王ぜんおう?, lit. "Omni-King") is the king of all of the twelve universes in the Dragon...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Someone first make a note and then just paste it there.
- 12,451
- 4,476
just to say that we should probably wait for more staff before deciding anything, the whole purpose of this thread's creation was to have staff read the sumaries of each side of the past threads and then reach a consensus, but as shown in the op, the rosat may not even be a space time anymore, so we need more staff opinion on that too
- 9,982
- 10,821
- Thread starter
- #49
Well, tbh, it's kinda seems like RoSaT being spacetime continuum or not may simply don't even affect the rating of timeline being 2C. Given that they're universes at the end of the day. And as I have said before, high 3A multiverse as far as I've seen only applies on verses with the universe being nothing more than galaxies in a greater space (no actually separation at all), no spatial or not even temporal. In any other case, they can still be tier 2, toriyama seems to build rather unique cosmology which shouldn't be concluded easily to high 3A based of given evidences that maybe just be a part of its unique features.
- 12,252
- 6,204
Sorry, but this topic has already been completed and rejected, the Universes are still low 2-C and the timeline is 2-C, there is even a rule about not changing the entire cosmology, Frieza's argument is not new, this goes all the way back to Z's manga, something discussed a while ago, all arguments against the verse have been refuted, now all that's left is to apply this and close this thread.
- 12,451
- 4,476
correct me if am wrong, but without a explicity statement calling them space times, and with all of them being affected by time travel, wouldn't they just be spatially separated but still being in the same time continuum?
freeza statement is new information from the ongoing manga, plus there is nothing to apply here just yet, and no one covered to other point of the rosat not being a space time, which would invalidate the current note completely, we can't close a thread that has no conclusion reached
- 31,633
- 34,652
It appears to be unlocked for some reason.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,430
- 15,051
Ant unlocked it before and keep it unlocked because the profile isn't too controversial to be locked
- 12,252
- 6,204
yes, the arguments are not new, it is said that the room of time separated from the Universe since Z, so yes the mention of Freeza is not new, but just an explanation of the z manga already shown, the topic was successfully completed, even the admins asked for closure, so yes this topic is waiting for the page to be unlocked to close this.
- 9,982
- 10,821
- Thread starter
- #55
Spatially separated Dimensions all being serviced by single time Dimension can still be tier 2 structures. And I've expressed my thoughts towards travelling between universes stuff, I do not agree with that point in our revision but even given that revision, dragonball cosmology being unique in itself can facilitate the movement between Dimensions, how else SDBs gonna move btw Dimensions w/o dimension travel? They can't, so they must have Dimension travel. Space btw universes has been unexplained in dragonball so far, all we have is visual of it having planets, doesn't seems like enough.
All in one. I am neutral towards dragonball cosmology but doesn't find me being neutral as the reason to downgrade it, as simply finding no conclusion on what to do about it, in the end. I can just let myself end up with no conclusion.
- 9,982
- 10,821
- Thread starter
- #56
I guess any of you should add a note then or just another justification if need be.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,430
- 15,051
i'm on phone so i can't do anything, and need to sleep soon since in my time zone it is midnight
- 12,252
- 6,204
Jeez, this is 14:21 ;-;
- 12,451
- 4,476
you ignored the other point about the rosat not being a space time to begin with, we still need staff to evaluate it
- 168,514
- 77,231
Yes, that is fine with me as well, but shouldn't somebody first write an explanation blog with all of the evidence for the universes being separate from each other shown in the preceding thread where we discussed this issue, so we can link to it in our main Dragon Ball verse page afterwards? Somebody with proper writing skills need to help out with cleaning up the language and structure in a wiki sandbox page first though?
- 12,451
- 4,476
well, there is still the problem of the rosat not being a space time showed in the op, no one addressed it yet
- 12,252
- 6,204
@Reiner, @Vietthai96, @godofice, could do that, I left all links to the relevant comments that I included that each universe is separated from the other by dimensional barriers and dimensions, my writing is not very good, if not i would do it right now
- 168,514
- 77,231
@Reiner @Vietthai96 @Dagoth_OwO @Ottavio_Merluzzo
Would any of you be willing to collaborate with this project?
- 168,514
- 77,231
You as well, @Dominodalek .
- 12,252
- 6,204
@TheUnshakableOne mentioned something very interesting that should be added here and put it on my profile, I think it would help a lot
- 12,252
- 6,204
の は 、 場所 的 に 上下 の に なっ て いる そして 、 、 地 から から 閻魔 に は 自由 移動 は 不 可能 閻魔界 から 界 王界 に は な 方法 で しか 行く こと は 王界 王界 に は 特殊 方法 方法 で 行く こと こと は 王界 に 'なっ て。 この かいおうかい えんまかい こと から も 、 界 王界閻魔界 → 地獄 、 、 完ぺき 上下 上下 関係 が で き上がっ いる こと が わかる.
The areas of the two worlds are in an up-and-down relationship in terms of location. The areas of the two worlds are in an upper and lower relationship in terms of location, and free movement from hell to Enma is impossible, while from Enma to Kaio-kai can only be reached by a special method. This fact shows that a perfect hierarchical relationship has been established between Kaio-kai and Enma-kai and between Kaio-kai and Enma-kai and Hell.[/URL]
この世は、現世とも呼ばれて いる。端的に言うと、広大な宇 宙のことなのである。その宇宙、4つの銀河に分かれておりその他に宇宙のどこかには悪魔界と呼ばれる、混沌とした場所あることもわかっている。 西南北の銀河という区分は、行 政単位として神々が使っているだけで、この世に住んでいる生命体は、銀河間を自由に行き来することができる。もちろんその技術力があっての話だが･･･ちなみに孫悟空達の住む地球は、北の銀河に存在している。北の銀河でも有数の美しい惑星
This world is also called the present world. Simply put, it is the vastness of space. We know that the universe is divided into four galaxies, and we also know that somewhere in the universe there is a chaotic place called the demon world. The division of the galaxies into southwest, southwest, north, and southwest is only used by the gods as a unit of government, and life forms living in this world can move freely between the galaxies. Incidentally, the Earth, where Sun Wukong and his family live, exists in the northern galaxy. One of the most beautiful planets in the northern galaxy.[/url]
悪魔界は、この世の中でも特 場所である。あの世の神々の目の届かぬところであり生体が住んでいること以 外よくわかっていない。その体が、宇宙の惑星の平和を脅かしたという記録も残っているこの世からあの世へは、普通 の生命体では、自由に行き来す ることはできない。 死亡時に魂 となって行くしか方法はない だが、あの世の神々に行き来を
The demon world is a special place in this world. It is a place beyond the reach of the gods of the other world, and is not well understood except for the fact that it is inhabited by living organisms. There is a record that the body of a living being threatened the peace of the cosmic planets. The only way to go there is as a soul at the time of death.
【界王神界】 あの世、こ の世の者は、ここへの立ち入りは許されていない。 もっとも高度な瞬間移動能力を持っていなければ移動不可能なのだが。
The world of the gods.
No one from the other world or this world is allowed to enter this world.
However, it is impossible to move around here unless you have a high level of instantaneous movement ability.
i never actually delved deep into the DB cosmology. I only watch it for fun not to scale, but it appears the living world is divided up, and the afterlife is inaccessible and impossible to cross over into without special means to do so. The scans also mention some sort of qualitive superiority (hierarchical) relationship with the various worlds some being higher, and some being lower than others.
it would best if someone went to R/Translate for a professional to get a very accurate translation of it, and also proof its not retconned.
credits @TheUnshakableOne
The areas of the two worlds are in an up-and-down relationship in terms of location. The areas of the two worlds are in an upper and lower relationship in terms of location, and free movement from hell to Enma is impossible, while from Enma to Kaio-kai can only be reached by a special method. This fact shows that a perfect hierarchical relationship has been established between Kaio-kai and Enma-kai and between Kaio-kai and Enma-kai and Hell.[/URL]
この世は、現世とも呼ばれて いる。端的に言うと、広大な宇 宙のことなのである。その宇宙、4つの銀河に分かれておりその他に宇宙のどこかには悪魔界と呼ばれる、混沌とした場所あることもわかっている。 西南北の銀河という区分は、行 政単位として神々が使っているだけで、この世に住んでいる生命体は、銀河間を自由に行き来することができる。もちろんその技術力があっての話だが･･･ちなみに孫悟空達の住む地球は、北の銀河に存在している。北の銀河でも有数の美しい惑星
This world is also called the present world. Simply put, it is the vastness of space. We know that the universe is divided into four galaxies, and we also know that somewhere in the universe there is a chaotic place called the demon world. The division of the galaxies into southwest, southwest, north, and southwest is only used by the gods as a unit of government, and life forms living in this world can move freely between the galaxies. Incidentally, the Earth, where Sun Wukong and his family live, exists in the northern galaxy. One of the most beautiful planets in the northern galaxy.[/url]
悪魔界は、この世の中でも特 場所である。あの世の神々の目の届かぬところであり生体が住んでいること以 外よくわかっていない。その体が、宇宙の惑星の平和を脅かしたという記録も残っているこの世からあの世へは、普通 の生命体では、自由に行き来す ることはできない。 死亡時に魂 となって行くしか方法はない だが、あの世の神々に行き来を
The demon world is a special place in this world. It is a place beyond the reach of the gods of the other world, and is not well understood except for the fact that it is inhabited by living organisms. There is a record that the body of a living being threatened the peace of the cosmic planets. The only way to go there is as a soul at the time of death.
【界王神界】 あの世、こ の世の者は、ここへの立ち入りは許されていない。 もっとも高度な瞬間移動能力を持っていなければ移動不可能なのだが。
The world of the gods.
No one from the other world or this world is allowed to enter this world.
However, it is impossible to move around here unless you have a high level of instantaneous movement ability.
i never actually delved deep into the DB cosmology. I only watch it for fun not to scale, but it appears the living world is divided up, and the afterlife is inaccessible and impossible to cross over into without special means to do so. The scans also mention some sort of qualitive superiority (hierarchical) relationship with the various worlds some being higher, and some being lower than others.
it would best if someone went to R/Translate for a professional to get a very accurate translation of it, and also proof its not retconned.
鸟山明漫画资料馆 - 七龙珠|阿拉蕾|鸟山明中短篇|龙珠AF|龙珠Multiverse|完全版|大全集
鸟山漫画资料馆即七龙珠在线漫画，包括龙珠、阿拉蕾各版本的在线漫画、鸟山明的中短篇漫画、龙珠的资料书籍、鸟山明的部分资料书籍等。ドラゴンボール鳥山明の世界。
comic.dragonballcn.com
credits @TheUnshakableOne
- 168,514
- 77,231
- 32,835
- 38,111
I have tried countless times to get AKM, DDM and co. to try and make up a cosmology blog but they've always met dead-ends at one side or another.
- 12,252
- 6,204
@TheUnshakableOne our friend was mentioned about, I think letting him do it would be a good one, and put what canon or not.
- 168,514
- 77,231
Well, I asked a few knowledgeable members to collaborate with writing a sandbox draft page, that can then be reposted as a blog post after it has been finished.
- 3,512
- 5,234
I can help make one for toei and canon db cosmology
- 3,512
- 5,234
this could be a potential draft for the new note
Note: We consider the universes in Dragon Ball alternate time-spaces relative to each other, hence why Zen'ō is rated as 2-C, despite the events in the Goku Black Saga showing parallel timelines encompassing the whole of the multiverse.
The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected. Also, the realms in Universe 7 have been shown to need teleportation to traverse between or special means of dimensional travel like Whis’s staff.
Note: We consider the universes in Dragon Ball alternate time-spaces relative to each other, hence why Zen'ō is rated as 2-C, despite the events in the Goku Black Saga showing parallel timelines encompassing the whole of the multiverse.
The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected. Also, the realms in Universe 7 have been shown to need teleportation to traverse between or special means of dimensional travel like Whis’s staff.
- 12,451
- 4,476
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,430
- 15,051
But anyway i can help with the matter, a coherent cosmology blog for DB is long overdue
- 31,633
- 34,652
None of that mentions anything about afterlives being different timelines, also I noticed the four galaxy thing; Which should be four quadrants not galaxies. Though it is evidence of them being different bodies of spaces requiring either teleportation and/or dimensional travel yeah.
As for the cosmology blog creation, I have too much on my plate to properly make one. And I'm pretty sure AKM Sama made one a long time ago, though perhaps some parts are outdated yeah. But it would be appreciated if someone made one. I think people like UnshakableOne or Vietthai would be good. Possibly Dagoth or Dominodalek too.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,430
- 15,051
I don't remember and i'm pretty sure AKM never once make a cosmology blog, @Zamasu_Chan is the one who made a coherent cosmology blog, but it got rejected by AKM due to it compositing Toei and Canon, probably i will take some elements from his blog
- 31,633
- 34,652
I might be thinking of a different blog AKM made then; oh yeah, his blog was more so about the 3-A scaling and it being hundreds of times above baseline.
But yeah, someone should perhaps make a cosmology blog listing the reasons for the tier 2 stuff.
But yeah, someone should perhaps make a cosmology blog listing the reasons for the tier 2 stuff.
- Status
Similar threads
