Dragon Ball Z Minor Piccolo revision

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

In the DBZ AP blog, we see this:

The question is, how do we know Piccolo was above the Cell Jrs. in the Buu Saga and do we have any proof for that? Since right now, the reasonings are not based on anything in the canon manga and seem rather headcanon-ish

If there is no proof for that, Piccolo, and thus Shin, will need to be downgraded as a result

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What blog is that? This is the conclusion which we reached here. https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-z-manga-power-scaling.126509/

Post-Time Chamber Piccolo was inferior, but could fend them off to some extent and received little damage. Large Star level.

Edit: never mind, it's talking about shin being the one who is above the jrs since he is so overwhelmingly above piccolo.

 

[Damage3245]

That's from the same blog.

The line comes from the first entry of the Buu Saga.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Again, Piccolo was not comparable for them. Cell said it himself that only Vegeta and Trunks held their own. We can't scale Piccolo to the Cell Jrs. because they are demonstrably stronger than him

If Piccolo would be comparable to them, Cell would've said so that Piccolo is holding his own too, but he didn't, meaning he didn't even held his own and just got stomped. I should remind you the Cell Jrs. didn't kill anyone, not even the weak humans

 

[Coolboy6]

I guess piccolo is stronger than both Goten and Trunks since when they were inside of buu when they were fused as Gotenks, they defused inside of Buu and Piccolo was the main source of power instead of either Goten or Trunks who fought Cell Jrs in the DBS Manga so therefore, it’s safe to say that Piccolo during this time is stronger than Goten, Trunks, or the Cell Jrs.

 

[Damage3245]

Base Goten and base Trunks are already rated lower than Piccolo.

 

[Coolboy6]

Base Goten and base Trunks are already rated lower than Piccolo.

I’m talking about super saiyan Goten and Trunks

 

[Damage3245]

I’m talking about super saiyan Goten and Trunks

But Goten and Trunks weren't Super Saiyans inside of Boo.

 

[Coolboy6]

Piccolo was able to hold his own against a cell jr and Piccolo had 7 years of training after that so the gap in strength would have definitely closed by then. Plus I’m pretty sure that Piccolo was in the time chamber with Goten and Trunks so he would have likely trained them up

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Again, Piccolo was not comparable for them. Cell said it himself that only Vegeta and Trunks held their own. We can't scale Piccolo to the Cell Jrs. because they are demonstrably stronger than him

If Piccolo would be comparable to them, Cell would've said so that Piccolo is holding his own too, but he didn't, meaning he didn't even held his own and just got stomped. I should remind you the Cell Jrs. didn't kill anyone, not even the weak humans

No, don't kid yourself. Piccolo did not get stomped nor did he get heavily injured, he was only slightly bleeding. He was also the only person standing and fighting the cell jrs while all the others were actually stomped.
Piccolo is clearly weaker than the cell jrs, however he also still somewhat scales which is why we came to this conclusion and removed the "at least".

Post-Time Chamber Piccolo was inferior, but could fend them off to some extent and received little damage. Large Star level.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

No, don't kid yourself. Piccolo did not get stomped nor did he get heavily injured, he was only slightly bleeding. He was also the only person standing and fighting the cell jrs while all the others were actually stomped.

The humans were also not killed by the Cell Jrs. and could stand later after Gohan killed them. That means nothing. Piccolo doesn't scale still
If anything this just proves they weren't even serious when fighting them

Piccolo was able to hold his own against a cell jr and Piccolo had 7 years of training after that so the gap in strength would have definitely closed by then.

1) No Piccolo did NOT held his own. Cell said it himself that only Vegeta and Trunks were capable of holding their own.
2) Your reasoning are not based on anything in the manga and are basically headcanon

Plus I’m pretty sure that Piccolo was in the time chamber with Goten and Trunks so he would have likely trained them up

Piccolo wasn't training them at all. He was literally only there since he leaded Buu into the Chamber so Gotenks would fight him there

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not sure if there's any proof of being comparable to Cell Jrs, but Buu saga Piccolo should be no weaker than Android saga. And post RoSaT Piccolo shouldn't be too much weaker than Ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta who is overwhelmingly stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell.

gtg to work

 

[GyroNutz]

Like I said in the previous thread, there's only one or two panels that suggest that Piccolo held his own, whereas Cell's statement would imply that Piccolo wasn't holding his own. While I'm personally fine with downscaling Piccolo from individual Cell Jrs, the proof for it is shaky. Anything beyond downscaling though I'm against.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The humans were also not killed by the Cell Jrs. and could stand later after Gohan killed them. That means nothing. Piccolo doesn't scale still
If anything this just proves they weren't even serious when fighting them

The humans got knocked out and ragdolled by the jrs. The stomps look like this.
Piccolo did not experience this, he was capable of fighting against the cell jr, and was only lightly bleeding until gohan transformed.
The argument that the cell jrs were holding back doesn't work because refraining from killing your opponent does not mean you have to hold back your power. You can still fight at 100% but not kill your opponent.

1) No Piccolo did NOT held his own. Cell said it himself that only Vegeta and Trunks were capable of holding their own.
2) Your reasoning are not based on anything in the manga and are basically headcanon

Ah yes as if we haven't already taken that into account when we removed the at least from piccolo, he downscales.
I think it's also worth mentioning that piccolo is stronger than weakened goku who was capable of damaging weakened perfect cell and forcing him to use a barrier, who is far stronger than post ROSAT grade 2 vegeta (Cell says that full power Goku has a chance of winning against him), while pre ROSAT grade 2 vegeta could not damage cell at all without final flash and he's large star level.

 

[Damage3245]

Can't believe people are still using those 0% quality scans instead of official Viz scans.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The humans got knocked out and ragdolled by the jrs. The stomps look like this.
Piccolo did not experience this, he was capable of fighting against the cell jr, and was only lightly bleeding until gohan transformed.

We don't see Piccolo fighting the Cell Jr. at all except in this moment, and if you'll look at this carefully, you'd see that Piccolo is pretty damaged there, while the Cell Jr. did not take a single hit, proving, much like Cell said, that only Vegeta and Trunks could hold their own

The argument that the cell jrs were holding back doesn't work because refraining from killing your opponent does not mean you have to hold back your power. You can still fight at 100% but not kill your opponent.

Cell literally says to them to stop play around and kill them. This proves they were holding back on the Z fighters. The only reason they didn't finished them is because Gohan transformed very soon afterwards

Ah yes as if we haven't already taken that into account when we removed the at least from piccolo, he downscales.
I think it's also worth mentioning that piccolo is stronger than weakened goku who was capable of damaging weakened perfect cell and forcing him to use a barrier, who is far stronger than post ROSAT grade 2 vegeta (Cell says that full power Goku has a chance of winning against him),

Cell said that Goku's chances to win if he'd heal back to full power would only increase slightly. This proves that Cell did not lose that much energy at all. Goku pretty much used the last energy he had left on the attack forcing Cell to use the barrier, but after that he had no stamina left to fight anymore.

Only then Goku was getting beated by the Cell Jrs; as he didn't have the energy left to fight them. This was also said by Cell
Vegeta and Trunks were the only one who could hold their own against the Cell Jrs. but Piccolo couldn't, meaning Piccolo isn't above Vegeta

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

We don't see Piccolo fighting the Cell Jr. at all except in this moment, and if you'll look at this carefully, you'd see that Piccolo is pretty damaged there, while the Cell Jr. did not take a single hit, proving, much like Cell said, that only Vegeta and Trunks could hold their own

Cell literally says to them to stop play around and kill them. This proves they were holding back on the Z fighters. The only reason they didn't finished them is because Gohan transformed very soon afterwards

Cell said that Goku's chances to win if he'd heal back to full power would only increase slightly. This proves that Cell did not lose that much energy at all. Goku pretty much used the last energy he had left on the attack forcing Cell to use the barrier, but after that he had no stamina left to fight anymore.

Only then Goku was getting beated by the Cell Jrs; as he didn't have the energy left to fight them. This was also said by Cell
Vegeta and Trunks were the only one who could hold their own against the Cell Jrs. but Piccolo couldn't, meaning Piccolo isn't above Vegeta

We do see him fight at the start of the fight and he wasn't getting pummeled like the humans.
Neither were the cell jrs that vegeta and trunks were fighting. The only damage they take is one strike that vegeta dealt, and it's not visible later.
Yes which is why piccolo downscales, he's damaged more than trunks and vegeta but can still fight the cell jrs.

You can fight at full power without being bloodlusted.

No it does not prove that. Goku himself states that cell is very tired and lost a lot of strength. And Goku was still in fighting condition according to vegeta, it's not like Goku's going to go from capable of fighting cell energy level to completely drained and unable to fight with a mere ki blast barrage. That's stupid.
The logic still holds up that piccolo is stronger than Goku who was able to damage a cell stronger than the cell that grade 2 vegeta couldn't scratch.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Damaged, tag asura here. He is the staff that proposed this scaling for piccolo.

 

[Damage3245]

@FluffyCreatureZ; Sure, will do. In exchange, please stop using those old scans for Dragon Ball. Use Viz ones, please.

@ByAsura You're wanting here.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

@FluffyCreatureZ; Sure, will do. In exchange, please stop using those old scans for Dragon Ball. Use Viz ones, please.

@ByAsura You're wanting here.

Thanks.
Sorry but they are the only ones that I found that I can actually copy the url and share. Do you know of a site that has high quality scans?

 

[Damage3245]

Thanks.
Sorry but they are the only ones that I found that I can actually copy the url and share. Do you know of a site that has high quality scans?

Manga 4 Life has all the scans & can be copy-pasted.

 

[Veronica]

Can't believe people are still using those 0% quality scans instead of official Viz scans.

You have to pay for them

 

[ByAsura]

We really have to go over this again? Piccolo, who's clearly not getting his ass handed to him here, took almost exactly as much as Trunks and Vegeta. If the Cell Jrs. could have maimed him, they would have, as they did with everyone else (i.e knocked out with broken bones); they were all knocked out, and had to be fed senzu beans by Trunks.

Also, the Cell Jrs. facing Vegeta and Trunks don't have damage on them, while they do. Does that mean Vegeta and Trunks are inferior?

The fact that he wasn't exactly on par with them is why he doesn't have an at least like they do.

Thanks.
Sorry but they are the only ones that I found that I can actually copy the url and share. Do you know of a site that has high quality scans?

Fan-fox. It's one word, but I have to hyphenate it for the censors.

 

[Coolboy6]

Even the title of this DBZ manga implies that Piccolo is still standing alongside Vegeta and Trunks when the rest of the z fighters (not including Goku) couldn’t stand up at all which implies that Piccolo could still put up a fight alongside Vegeta and Trunks (likely referring to the Cell Jrs since they were the only ones they fought during the cell games 1v1)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

We really have to go over this again? Piccolo, who's clearly not getting his ass handed to him here, took almost exactly as much as Trunks and Vegeta. If the Cell Jrs. could have maimed him, they would have, as they did with everyone else (i.e knocked out with broken bones); they were all knocked out, and had to be fed senzu beans by Trunks.

In the same scan you posted, Cell literally says only Trunks and Vegeta held their own, meaning Piccolo did not. While it's true that Piccolo was not damaged by the same amount as the humans, this is because:

1) Piccolo is far stronger than the humans
2) As a Namekian, Piccolo can regenerate and heal damage done to him, although that would tire him

Also, the Cell Jrs. facing Vegeta and Trunks don't have damage on them, while they do. Does that mean Vegeta and Trunks are inferior?

Yes. Cell only said they can hold their own. Not actually win. Even Vegeta said he has a lot of trouble of his Cell Jr.

 

[ByAsura]

In the same scan you posted, Cell literally says only Trunks and Vegeta held their own, meaning Piccolo did not. While it's true that Piccolo was not damaged by the same amount as the humans, this is because:

Which is an irrelevant point. We're not arguing the Cell Jrs. are equal, just that Piccolo is not way inferior to them.

1) Piccolo is far stronger than the humans

Piccolo is magnitudes above people capable of one-shotting Krillin and Yamcha even before fusing with Kami, so the Cell Jrs. wouldn't be restraining themselves to the same kind of level in order to even scratch Piccolo.

2) As a Namekian, Piccolo can regenerate and heal damage done to him, although that would tire him

Which is never shown, and Piccolo has damage that doesn't disappear throughout the fight.

Yes. Cell only said they can hold their own. Not actually win. Even Vegeta said he has a lot of trouble of his Cell Jr.

Firstly, Vegeta outright damaged a Cell Jr., so your whole point doesn't make sense. Secondly, if that's the case, how is your Piccolo point even remotely justified if even they aren't on par with them?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Which is an irrelevant point. We're not arguing the Cell Jrs. are equal, just that Piccolo is not way inferior to them.

Except that he is, because the statement clearly says that Piccolo can't even hold his own against them, so such backscaling doesn't work when it's based on nothing more than visuals while you ignore the statement in the first place

Piccolo is magnitudes above people capable of one-shotting Krillin and Yamcha even before fusing with Kami, so the Cell Jrs. wouldn't be restraining themselves to the same kind of level in order to even scratch Piccolo.

The Cell Jrs. did not want to kill the Z fighters before. They literally just played around with them before, and Piccolo was still getting a lot of damage from them despite them not even being serious

Which is never shown, and Piccolo has damage that doesn't disappear throughout the fight.

The battle itself was never really shown, so saying that he was holding his own despite having no feats to show this and with Cell directly confirming against it, he doesn't scale regardless of regeneration

Firstly, Vegeta outright damaged a Cell Jr., so your whole point doesn't make sense. Secondly, if that's the case, how is your Piccolo point even remotely justified if even they aren't on par with them?

Being able to damage someone =/= being stronger than said someone. Goku damaged Frieza when he bit his tail despite Frieza being leagues stronger than Goku. SSB Goku was weaker than Golden Frieza but still damaged him. Android 17 could damage Jiren despite him not being as strong as him and there are many more example

 

[ByAsura]

Except that he is, because the statement clearly says that Piccolo can't even hold his own against them, so such backscaling doesn't work when it's based on nothing more than visuals while you ignore the statement in the first place

"Hold your own" means fighting on par with someone, retaining a position of strength or being as successful. If you're outclassed, you're not holding your own, but it doesn't mean you're vastly inferior.

Nobody is ignoring the statement. It's just not relevant.

The Cell Jrs. did not want to kill the Z fighters before. They literally just played around with them before, and Piccolo was still getting a lot of damage from them despite them not even being serious

By playing, you mean knocking them out in 5 seconds and breaking bones. They'd have done this to the rest if they could, but they didn't because they're not strong enough.

He didn't get a lot of damage, no more than Vegeta and Trunks in fact. That's the entire point.

The battle itself was never really shown, so saying that he was holding his own despite having no feats to show this and with Cell directly confirming against it, he doesn't scale regardless of regeneration

But the damage is. Also, we see scenes of the fight, and he's never grossly outclassed at any point, unlike the humans. What you're doing is making an interpretation of a statement that favours you.

Again, I never said he was. Piccolo scales to his own durability, and he can fight people capable of harming him.

Honestly, if you want to go down this route, the Cell Jrs can also regenerate and were confirmed to have Cell's abilites as far back as the release of Daizenshuu. And we see them with less damage each scene, so I'd say it's not unlikely they healed.

Being able to damage someone =/= being stronger than said

I'm saying they're equal because the Cell Jr and Vegeta took about the same amount of damage from each other's punches. Nobody here suggested they're stronger.

Being able to damage someone =/= being stronger than said someone. Goku damaged Frieza when he bit his tail despite Frieza being leagues stronger than Goku. SSB Goku was weaker than Golden Frieza but still damaged him. Android 17 could damage Jiren despite him not being as strong as him and there are many more example

That's because Frieza was holding back to Goku's level. When he half-stopped, a 20x Kaioken only singed his hand.

Barely, and after he began to weaken. Plus, anime GS wasn't using his full power at first.

On two occasions, one of which being a suicide attack, the other taking him off guard. None of those criteria are met when Vegeta damages the Cell Jr.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

"Hold your own" means fighting on par with someone or retaining a position of strength. If you're outclassed, you're not holding your own, but it doesn't mean you're vastly inferior.

This does mean that he is inferior enough to them to not scale.

By playing, you mean knocking them out in 5 seconds and breaking bones. They'd have done this to the rest if they could, but they didn't because they're not strong enough.

He didn't get a lot of damage, no more than Vegeta and Trunks in fact. That's the entire point.

Uh no, they literally wanted to extend their suffer to make Gohan angry so he'd transform. Otherwise they'd killed the humans with one hit. You're still ignoring that even Cell says to them to stop playing around and start fighting seriously, meaning that all damage they took up to this point was when they weren't even trying

But the damage is. Also, we see scenes of the fight, and he's never grossly outclassed at any point, unlike the humans. What you're doing is making an interpretation of a statement that favours you.

We definitely see Piccolo getting outclassed here. Piccolo took a lot of damage fighting the Cell Jr. while it took no damage at all from the fight between them

Again, I never said he was. Piccolo scales to his own durability, and he can fight people capable of harming him.

Piccolo doesn't scale to the Cell Jrs., if he would have, or even be comparable, this would've been said by Cell.

I'm saying they're equal because they took about the same amount of damage from each other's punches. Nobody here suggested they're stronger.

The Cell Jrs. barely took any damage before Gohan turned SSJ2. Vegeta and Trunks could fight them, yes, but even they didn't damage them all that much, as seen when the Cell Jrs. see Gohan turn SSJ2

 

[ByAsura]

This does mean that he is inferior enough to them to not scale.

No it doesn't, but Piccolo already doesn't scale, he downscales.

Uh no, they literally wanted to extend their suffer to make Gohan angry so he'd transform. Otherwise they'd killed the humans with one hit. You're still ignoring that even Cell says to them to stop playing around and start fighting seriously, meaning that all damage they took up to this point was when they weren't even trying

Cell also told them to kill the Z-Fighters if they wanted, which makes it unclear how much effort all of them put in. It was their choice to fool around, which they did by breaking their ******* bones and knocking them out. They brutalized Goku, someone Cell probably wanted to survive the most, and yet they didn't do the same to Piccolo?

By this logic, you can also say they were holding back against Trunks and Vegeta.

We definitely see Piccolo getting outclassed here. Piccolo took a lot of damage fighting the Cell Jr. while it took no damage at all from the fight between them

We don't. We see him with a cut on his face in one panel and blocking a punch in another.

You keep saying a lot, but where? I see a few scrapes on his face, which is not much more than Vegeta and Trunks. 17 took somewhat similar damage (albeit less) from just a few opening attacks from someone he was equal to.

Again, you can say the same about Trunks and Vegeta, both of whom were explicitly holding their own. Repeating yourself won't help you.

Piccolo doesn't scale to the Cell Jrs., if he would have, or even be comparable, this would've been said by Cell.

Comparable =/= scaling. We literally don't scale them currently, so your concerns are addressed.

The Cell Jrs. barely took any damage before Gohan turned SSJ2. Vegeta and Trunks could fight them, yes, but even they didn't damage them all that much, as seen when the Cell Jrs. see Gohan turn SSJ2

Probably because they can regenerate themselves (you must have missed that point because I edited it in too late), which actually allowed them to survive dying in the canon sequel manga. One was damaged here (outright showing they're about on the same level), and the damage is literally never shown again. This has merit, unlike Piccolo.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Cell also told them to kill the Z-Fighters if they wanted, which makes it unclear how much effort all of them put in. It was their choice to fool around, which they did by breaking their ******* bones and knocking them out. They brutalized Goku, someone Cell probably wanted to survive the most, and yet they didn't do the same to Piccolo?

Cell didn't care about Goku at this point anymore. Goku already surrendered and he realized that Gohan is stronger. The only reason Cell even made the Cell Jrs. is because he wanted to make Gohan angry to awaken that so-called "power than can defeat him" (aka SSJ2)

By this logic, you can also say they were holding back against Trunks and Vegeta.

Yeah, they were. Cell literally tells them to stop fooling around and actually get serious against them. Again, this was all said in the manga

We don't. We see him with a cut on his face in one panel and blocking a punch in another.

You keep saying a lot, but where? I see a few cuts on his face, which is not much more than Vegeta and Trunks.

Again, you can say the same about Trunks and Vegeta, both of whom were explicitly holding their own. Repeating yourself won't help you.

Just because he blocked a single punch doesn't mean he is on the same level or even holding his own. And this is not me saying that. This is literally what the canon manga says. Again, Cell, who both made the Cell Jrs. and is able to sense energy explicably says ONLY Trunks and Vegeta held their own, which means Piccolo didn't, even if he wasn't beaten as much as the rest

Comparable =/= scaling. We literally don't scale them currently, so your concerns are addressed.

Comparable means they are relatively on the same level as each other, which we know Piccolo isn't on the same level as the Cell Jrs.

 

[ByAsura]

Cell didn't care about Goku at this point anymore.

Fair point.

Goku already surrendered and he realized that Gohan is stronger. The only reason Cell even made the Cell Jrs. is because he wanted to make Gohan angry to awaken that so-called "power than can defeat him" (aka SSJ2)

Still, though, this doesn't even remotely address the fact that they did curbstomp Goku to a far greater extent than Piccolo. Everybody except Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks were capable of standing. That is not a coincidence.

Yeah, they were. Cell literally tells them to stop fooling around and actually get serious against them. Again, this was all said in the manga

So it doesn't lend credence to your point at all if they were also messing around with the people we currently scale them from.

Also, Cell said this just after they knocked out the Z-Fighters, which occurred before Hercule threw 16's head and Gohan became Super Saiyan 2. They had plenty of time to inflict actual damage on Piccolo, and they didn't.

Just because he blocked a single punch doesn't mean he is on the same level or even holding his own. And this is not me saying that. This is literally what the canon manga says.

Neither of which I said at all. Drill this into your head: Piccolo downscales from them currently, and holding your own doesn't mean equal.

Also, me saying they he blocked the punch wasn't even meant as evidence to against this claim, it's just to show that we don't actually see him getting massively outclassed.

Again, Cell, who both made the Cell Jrs. and is able to sense energy explicably says ONLY Trunks and Vegeta held their own, which means Piccolo didn't, even if he wasn't beaten as much as the rest

Again, it's completely and utterly irrelevant.

Comparable means they are relatively on the same level as each other, which we know Piccolo isn't on the same level as the Cell Jrs.

Comparable has multiple definitions, but this is just splitting hairs. The fact is, we don't know if he would have said Piccolo wasn't far inferior to them, as he only ever talked about the two people who were about equal to them.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Fair point.

Still, though, this doesn't even remotely address the fact that they did curbstomp Goku to a far greater extent than Piccolo. Everybody except Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks were capable of standing. That is not a coincidence.

Goku lost too much energy. He literally used all his stamina in a desperate attempt to beat Cell, and gave up knowing he couldn't win. This is why he got weakened to such a degree that a Cell Jr. was able to stomp him. Piccolo on the other hand had his full stamina and power and could fight, and even then he got pretty damaged while the Cell Jr. that fought him did not. Only the one who fought Vegeta was ever shown to get damaged

So it doesn't lend credence to your point at all if they were also messing around with the people we currently scale them and downscale Piccolo from.

Why would it? Serious Cell Jrs. > Non-serious Cell Jrs. = Vegeta and Trunks and also > Piccolo. Much like how Perfect Cell himself held back while stomping everyone before

Also, Cell said this just after they knocked out the Z-Fighters, which occurred before Hercule threw 16's head and Gohan became Super Saiyan 2. They had plenty of time to inflict actual damage on Piccolo, and they didn't.

Neither of which I said at all. Drill this into your head: Piccolo downscales from them currently, and holding your own doesn't mean equal.

Also, me saying they he blocked the punch wasn't even meant as evidence to against this claim, it's just to show that we don't actually see him getting massively outclassed.

Again, it's completely and utterly irrelevant.

Comparable has multiple definitions, but this is just splitting hairs. The fact is, we don't know if he would have said Piccolo wasn't far inferior to them, as he only ever talked about the two people who were about equal to them.

Fine, but still, we can't assume that Piccolo became stronger than the Cell Jrs. in the Buu Saga when we have nothing to prove it

 

[ByAsura]

Goku lost too much energy. He literally used all his stamina in a desperate attempt to beat Cell, and gave up knowing he couldn't win. This is why he got weakened to such a degree that a Cell Jr. was able to stomp him. Piccolo on the other hand had his full stamina and power and could fight, and even then he got pretty damaged while the Cell Jr. that fought him did not. Only the one who fought Vegeta was ever shown to get damaged

This has absolutely no relevance to the point I was trying to construe. What I was saying is that they inflicted way more damage on Goku and everyone else (barring Vegeta and Trunks) than Piccolo, so they'd have to exclusively hold back to this exact level on just him for your point to work.

Fine, but still, we can't assume that Piccolo became stronger than the Cell Jrs. in the Buu Saga when we have nothing to prove it

We don't. We're assuming Shin is superior to the Cell Jrs. for making Piccolo, who'd had 7 years to train since the Cell Jr. battle, look like a joke.

I can just remove this Shin line with no harm done.

Edit: Removed.

 

[ByAsura]

I've removed the Shin thing, so can I close this?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Sure, it's more alright now