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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 68

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Basically this. LSS1 Kale alone was overpowering many MSSB lvl fighters in the manga which makes her much stronger than Manga Fusion Zamasu a fusion. And yet she was gradually defeated by the fodder Pride Troopers that were at most SS1 lvl. And Kefla is supposed to be even stronger than that. So Gohan being this strong is even worse than the anime.
 
It was confirmed SSB Goku was holding back in the anime. Kale is more SSJ2 - 3 tier in the anime.
 
That was from an author statement right? I wouldn't really trust it considering how most of the statements in the Universe Survival Saga were constantly contradicted later on. Not to mention her feats later on also contradicts him holding back.
 
I mean later on she actually struggles against a tired SSJ2 Goku remember? Seems consistent
 
Said SS2 Goku was after he broke his limits with UIS. Which made his SSBKKx2 <= LSS1 Kefla = Spirit Bomb >>> Pre-UIS SSBKKx20

Everybody seems to forget about how Goku gets a power up every time UIS wears off.
 
Didnt SSB KKx2 get knocked out in one hit? Regardless, thats still no whwre near SSJG tier or Blue, that would just put her higher than SSJ3 (Or at least around there)
 
I think that was after SS1 Kefla increased her power even more or the BS stamina stuff. Since before that kick they were pretty even with Goku seemingly being a bit stronger as he knocked her into the ground. Well if she was just SS3 Lvl then Jiren wouldn't have personally taken her out himself. The only fighters he have taken out himself before fighting Goku have all at least been SSG lvl.
 
... Did everyone forget that Kefla SSJ1 was stated to be equal to the SSBKKX20 Spirit Bomb that Goku absorbed right? Then it was stated that Kefla SSJ2 was stronger than Goku's previous usage of Ultra Instinct, and she was still getting stronger.

Kale took a SSB Kamehameha without a scratch, Jiren even decided to deal with her himself. This implies that he was the only one in the Pride Troopers that could one shot her.

That means Topp who is Blue level, would've struggle against Kale. Not only that but Kale's Berserker Form, before she gained control over it, made Jiren twitch during his meditation.

It was stated that Goku was stronger, during his second fight with Kale, than he was during their first fight. Goku had broken his limits already and was getting stronger during the fight.
 
^This but one thing I need to correct. Toppo is SSBKK Lvl not SSB lvl. Goku wasn't sure if he could beat him even with SSBKK.
 
Ok guys I don't know if this been talked before but who come Jiren is weaker then Infinite Zamasu when Goku even said that he's "never been hit so hard in his life" and we all know that UI Goku >> Infinite Zamasu?
 
2-C Infinite Zamasu is a hypothetical thing that nobody scales to. They only scale to Low 2-C Infinite Zamasu.
 
Wait so why is the 2-C there then if it's Hypothetical? Even Beerus didn't look that much fazed by Infinite Zamasu and we all know that Jiren >> IZ
 
He only projected a small part of himself there, that's not 2-C which its for completely taking over two universes.
 
That's weird considering the fact that Rosalina and Master Hand are rated "at least low 2-C" when Characters like Alien X and Goku are only low 2-C for the same reason.
 
Dark649 said:
He only projected a small part of himself there, that's not 2-C which its for completely taking over two universes.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying it says in his profile "eventually would had been 2-C which in turns had me like "what in the world then Jiren should be 2-C as well for being stronger"

EDIT: said that he would had affected space & time itself but yeah if that's the case then Jiren would also be 2-C just cause he's simply stronger unless we plan on getting rid of that tier for IZ
 
Why wouldn't it be at least? Any other reasons why instead of saying the same thing over and over? Every time I ask or give reasons to support at least low 2-C, people say the same exact reason, "They were talking about low 2-C Zamasu not 2-C". Really? Isn't that a bit selective? I know that Zamasu wasn't 2-C yet, but you have to look deeper into it. Zamasu crossed the distance between the future and the present to the point where was infecting the present. Really that's only low 2-C? Not only that but there is a slim possibility that Zamasu leaked into other universes in the future multiverse. Also Ui Goku is FAAAR higher than Zamasu. So why wouldn't his rating be at least low 2-C when other characters have that rating because of a reason as vague as creatted a universe with ease". It makes no sense.
 
In terms of Low 2-C, where numbers are meaningless unlike 2-C or 2-B but not infinite like 2-A, casual universe busters are higher than those with scaling chains.

That's just my take on it though.
 
It depends.

A person who is Low 2-C for scaling above a thousand characters who each can stomp the one under them with the weakest one destroying the universe at his full power should be stronger than a Low 2-C who snapped their fingers and destroyed a universe.

Imo.
 
By the way. What's been going on in the Dragon Ball verse guys?.

I haven't been on the dragon Ball scene in a while.
 
Aaaaaaaaaaaand the term "retcon" no longer exists. Akira essentially just said "f*ck it" and retconned the age of Goku, Vegeta and Broly.

Also, Naked Frieza.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
It depends.

A person who is Low 2-C for scaling above a thousand characters who each can stomp the one under them with the weakest one destroying the universe at his full power should be stronger than a Low 2-C who snapped their fingers and destroyed a universe.

Imo.
Click to expand...
Still wonky as hell.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
It depends.

A person who is Low 2-C for scaling above a thousand characters who each can stomp the one under them with the weakest one destroying the universe at his full power should be stronger than a Low 2-C who snapped their fingers and destroyed a universe.

Imo.
Click to expand...
Thus guy knows what he is talking about.
 
A higher tier is stretching it. Only at least because he's stronger than a fused Zamasu who transcends a singular space time but didn't completely become 2-C
 
Why would a character get an "At least" just because he scales above characters who scale above the baseline? If Jiren gets an "At least", it should be because he scales above a character who can destroy 2 universes while fighting another character of same strength.

And Jiren scales to IZ who was Low 2-C. 2-C IZ is purely hypothetical. He would have become 2-C if given time. Nobody scales to a hypothetical scenario which never happened.
 
@AKM

Why is that tier there then! just get rid of it cause it's confusing ad I honestly believe that he would actually had became 2-C

Also have now problem with Jiren being "At Least" but I remeber hearing that during the Ressurection of F arc that Goku Anne Vegeta were like high up in the 3-As or it was during the Goku Black arc that they were so how come they don't go into the next tier or get an At Least when they were that high in the AP lvl?
 
BlackeJan said:
@AKM
Why is that tier there then! just get rid of it cause it's confusing ad I honestly believe that he would actually had became 2-C
Click to expand...
Because in the wiki there are other characters which have a hypothetical tier if they succeed. So it should stay.
 
BlackeJan said:
Goku And Vegeta were like high up in the 3-As or it was during the Goku Black arc that they were so how come they don't go into the next tier or get an At Least when they were that high in the AP lvl?.
Click to expand...
They were not that high.
 
BlackeJan said:
@AKM
Why is that tier there then! just get rid of it cause it's confusing ad I honestly believe that he would actually had became 2-C

Also have now problem with Jiren being "At Least" but I remeber hearing that during the Ressurection of F arc that Goku Anne Vegeta were like high up in the 3-As or it was during the Goku Black arc that they were so how come they don't go into the next tier or get an At Least when they were that high in the AP lvl?
Click to expand...
Tier 3-A has an infinite gap.

You can't just go into a higher tier because you are stronger than someone that exists in that tier, that's not how 3-A works.
 
@Warren

So why is there people with "At Least 3-A" here?

@KOME

If ya still think about it, Jiren >> IZ so thats like saying "it's hypothetical for Jiren to be 2-C"
 
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