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They kinda are. Their function is to exterminate life, but usually at a larger scale than typical Death Gods.
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 39
- Thread starter TISSG7Redgrave
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When I think Death Gods, I think of those who like lead the souls to the afterlife or some crap. GoD don't seem like Death Gods to me.
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Well Dragon's opinion on Death Gods seems to make sense in any case.
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Plus, this wiki is pretty liberal with it's catagories. Beerus is listed under cats, even though he's not really a cat. He's just cat-like.
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Dragonmasterxyz said:
In traditional folklore, sure, that's often the case. But a fiction can modify it as they please. Shinigami in Japanese Mythology are your typical Death Gods, but the Shinigami in Death Note, for instance, aren't really like that. They just kill humans to extend their life and that's it. But they're still clearly based off of traditional Shinigami, and they're still called Gods of Death in the narrative.
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The narrative doesn't treat/call Beerus and all of them "Death Gods" or Shinigami though. They're referred to/called Hakaishin or "Destruction Gods."
Just because death is a consequence of destruction, does not mean that a Death God, Shinigami and a Destruction God, Hakaishin are the same thing. Or that Dragon Ball views them as the same thing.
Just because death is a consequence of destruction, does not mean that a Death God, Shinigami and a Destruction God, Hakaishin are the same thing. Or that Dragon Ball views them as the same thing.
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But they function to exterminate life specifically. Not just destroy anything. Whenever a GoD destroys something in Dragon Ball, it's almost always to destroy lifeforms, as oppose to simply cause destruction.
And like I said, this wiki is pretty liberal with it's catagories, so I don't know why we're being finicky with this.
And like I said, this wiki is pretty liberal with it's catagories, so I don't know why we're being finicky with this.
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Gods of Destruction are supposed to destroy planets specifically, not kill life forms. Kais create celestial bodies and GoDs destroy them for balance. Still though, narrative does not call them, treat them or base them off shinigami like the aforementioned Death Note gods.
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I think we should have a GoD category, especially since there are some verses that also use that name so its a bit broader than just DB.
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Shinigami aren't the only Death Gods in mythology. Wikipedia lists any deity that's loosely associated with death, or has divine authority to kill, as a Death Deity. Death God is a much broader term than your typical reapers and shinigami.
Gods of Destruction are suppose to destroy anything, with the Mortal Level of their universe in mind. That obviously ties to life it self. And they have divine authority to take life with moral exemption. That's enough to be considered a Death God in the broadest sense.
I think any deity that has divine authority to kill (and is loosely associated with doing primarily that) is a Death God.
Gods of Destruction are suppose to destroy anything, with the Mortal Level of their universe in mind. That obviously ties to life it self. And they have divine authority to take life with moral exemption. That's enough to be considered a Death God in the broadest sense.
I think any deity that has divine authority to kill (and is loosely associated with doing primarily that) is a Death God.
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A Death God, by its name, implies the God rules over Death.
The Gods of Destruction rule over just that, destruction. It's not their job to kill things, it's to destroy planets while the Kais create them.
The Gods of Destruction rule over just that, destruction. It's not their job to kill things, it's to destroy planets while the Kais create them.
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But there's no universal definition of death god. It's a broader term than what you think it is.
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By its very name a Death God is a God that rules over Death.
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So I just finished Sidra and am going to be making Rumsshi.
Anyone want to take the remaining ones? Those being Iwne, Mosco and Arak.
Anyone want to take the remaining ones? Those being Iwne, Mosco and Arak.
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The Everlasting said:
And what exactly does it mean to rule over death?
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Gonna be taking this moderately long post from TvTropes.
"We know that Frieza's going to be manipulating the gods themselves in order to come out on top this tournament, and Universe 9 is being set up as the weak link he's going to target. Not only are they the weakest universe most desperate to survive, but he's also in a position to very easily blackmail them, and we've established that their angel Mojito himself is unhappy with his universe's management. Frieza will leverage this weakness to bargain with its angel.
There is a rule against the gods interfering with the contestants, but not the other way around. There is a rule against killing the other contestants, but nothing at all about, saaaaay... shooting a death beam right through the chest of the Universe 9 kaioshin when you find yourself backed into an impossible corner. Sidra is, of course, killed by this as well, leaving Universe 9 without a god of destruction. Frieza's bargain with Mojito? Appoint him as Sidra's successor. And then Frieza was a hakaishin, much to everyone's absolute shock and horror.
Although Daishinkan immediately amends the rules or shields the observing gods so this won't happen again, Frieza is given a pass and is allowed to continue participating with his newfound powers intact, all according to keikaku. However, since he is the hakaishin of Universe 9 and will therefore be destroyed along with his universe if it is eliminated, he has to be switched to the U9 team, which he expected and is fine with. And there's nothing anyone can do about it, aside from Beerus yelling at Goku about why the hell did you bring this absolute ******* lunatic to the tournament in the first place. And, true to his word, Goku is furious with Frieza for killing yet another innocent bystander.
Worst of all, though? Ascending to godhood mid-tournament would nigh-guarantee him MVP status if he doesn't get eliminated—you really can't top that. You know the common assumption that they'll just wish on the Super Dragon Balls for the erased universes to be restored? Yeah, well, so much for that.
Of course, this won't be the end of the tournament (I personally highly doubt Goku vs Frieza will be the final fight even if this plays out), but it'll certainly raise the stakes to a ridiculous high. Beyond this point, who knows. However, I do think the crazy bastard will end up surviving the arc somehow and even being crucial to its resolution, as well as being allowed to keep the job. Pawning him off to another universe as their new hakaishin is just the most convenient thing to do with his character from a writing perspective, at least in terms of leaving doors open for the future."
Ma if this happened...
"We know that Frieza's going to be manipulating the gods themselves in order to come out on top this tournament, and Universe 9 is being set up as the weak link he's going to target. Not only are they the weakest universe most desperate to survive, but he's also in a position to very easily blackmail them, and we've established that their angel Mojito himself is unhappy with his universe's management. Frieza will leverage this weakness to bargain with its angel.
There is a rule against the gods interfering with the contestants, but not the other way around. There is a rule against killing the other contestants, but nothing at all about, saaaaay... shooting a death beam right through the chest of the Universe 9 kaioshin when you find yourself backed into an impossible corner. Sidra is, of course, killed by this as well, leaving Universe 9 without a god of destruction. Frieza's bargain with Mojito? Appoint him as Sidra's successor. And then Frieza was a hakaishin, much to everyone's absolute shock and horror.
Although Daishinkan immediately amends the rules or shields the observing gods so this won't happen again, Frieza is given a pass and is allowed to continue participating with his newfound powers intact, all according to keikaku. However, since he is the hakaishin of Universe 9 and will therefore be destroyed along with his universe if it is eliminated, he has to be switched to the U9 team, which he expected and is fine with. And there's nothing anyone can do about it, aside from Beerus yelling at Goku about why the hell did you bring this absolute ******* lunatic to the tournament in the first place. And, true to his word, Goku is furious with Frieza for killing yet another innocent bystander.
Worst of all, though? Ascending to godhood mid-tournament would nigh-guarantee him MVP status if he doesn't get eliminated—you really can't top that. You know the common assumption that they'll just wish on the Super Dragon Balls for the erased universes to be restored? Yeah, well, so much for that.
Of course, this won't be the end of the tournament (I personally highly doubt Goku vs Frieza will be the final fight even if this plays out), but it'll certainly raise the stakes to a ridiculous high. Beyond this point, who knows. However, I do think the crazy bastard will end up surviving the arc somehow and even being crucial to its resolution, as well as being allowed to keep the job. Pawning him off to another universe as their new hakaishin is just the most convenient thing to do with his character from a writing perspective, at least in terms of leaving doors open for the future."
Ma if this happened...
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I don't know if I like that. Seems like there's a few plot holes in that. Like, if Frieza becomes a Hakaishin mid-battle, shouldn't he no longer be allowed to participate? Since the Gods aren't allowed to participate? Additionally, who's his corrisponding Kaioshin if he becomes a Hakaishin? Does Roh suddenly come back to life, or will there be a new Kaioshin born or what?
Plot twist: Zamasu, who is still alive, becomes Frieza's Kaioshin. Wouldn't that be something xD
Plot twist: Zamasu, who is still alive, becomes Frieza's Kaioshin. Wouldn't that be something xD
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That's a cool idea, though I have a few problems with it.
1. How would Frieza know of the GoD weakness of killing their Kai?
2. I don't think Zen'ō, Daishinkan or the other GoDs are going to take a liking towards a mortal like Frieza having the audacity to murder a god right in front of all of them. They'd likely kill him for his mutiny/disrespect.
3. How would Frieza becoming a GoD save his ass? The GoDs of each losing universe are getting killed. And U9's chances of winning are pretty much 0.
1. How would Frieza know of the GoD weakness of killing their Kai?
2. I don't think Zen'ō, Daishinkan or the other GoDs are going to take a liking towards a mortal like Frieza having the audacity to murder a god right in front of all of them. They'd likely kill him for his mutiny/disrespect.
3. How would Frieza becoming a GoD save his ass? The GoDs of each losing universe are getting killed. And U9's chances of winning are pretty much 0.
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@Darkinx
(Referring to the Goku thing)
Not to mention that Goku's only ever won one tournament in the entire series (The one against Piccolo at the end of the original DB).
(Referring to the Goku thing)
Not to mention that Goku's only ever won one tournament in the entire series (The one against Piccolo at the end of the original DB).
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Ryukama said:
I think the idea is, Frieza will pretend to do it on accident ("whoops, my hand slipped"). Or maybe he (or someone else) will do it on accident, but then sees the ordeal as a huge opportunity.
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Goku forfeited the fight with Hit, tied him in the end of their rematch without going Kaioken and defeated Frieza after the time rewind. Though perhaps I shouldn't've said cliche rather him winning is what's kinda being expected.
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I'm sorry, I know this isn't on topic. But I can't seem to find anybody who can answer this.
If somebody is warping the entirety of the Space-Time continuum for a universe. And then, manages to warp a place thats separate space from the universe. Basically creating massive storms in a place that has no concept of distance or direction.
Is that Multi-Universal?
If somebody is warping the entirety of the Space-Time continuum for a universe. And then, manages to warp a place thats separate space from the universe. Basically creating massive storms in a place that has no concept of distance or direction.
Is that Multi-Universal?
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1. Again, how would Frieza know about the kai weakness?MeleeniumRXJ said:
2. It's not like Zen'ō, Daishinkan or the other GoDs would be accepting towards a mortal accidentally killing 2 gods in front of them either. Much less be willing to promote them to god status.
These don't seem like the kinds of guys to go "Oh it was just a mistake everyone makes those. Understandable, have a good day." Or to then give that person a god promotion while they're at it. They'd probably still punish Frieza for doing that, even if by accident.
3. Becoming a GoD ultimately does nothing to help Frieza out, as he'd be the GoD of a universe practically certain to lose this tournament.
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To be fair, Goku has only won one tournament in canon out of the 8 or so tournaments he's participated in.
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@Ryu
To be fair, the theory said that Frieza made a deal with Mojito to ensure he was made GoD.
To be fair, the theory said that Frieza made a deal with Mojito to ensure he was made GoD.
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Ryukama said:
1. It's possible that this information slips out from someone who knows.
2. If someone else kills a kai by accident, then Frieza won't be punished. He can then (pretend to) express condolensces for the unfortunate event, and offer to be a replacement.
What I don't understand though, is why they would continue to let him fight if he's technically a deity at this point. I also don't understand who would end up his Kaioshin.
3. He'd likely end up stronger than any mortal in the tournament and could potentially solo everyone. But like I said, I don't even know why he would be allowed to continue fighting. If they didn't let him fight, then yeah, he'd be doomed.
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I still doubt Zen'ō and Daishinkan are going to let Mojito promote a guy that killed two gods in front of them. But even then, Frieza becoming GoD for U9's team probably makes his chances at survival even lower than if he was with U7. So he's screwed either way.
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Also guys, please, I'd rather this discussion thread not be clogged with arguments from a WMG on TvTropes.
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1. It's possible for a lot of things to happen, but it doesn't mean it's likely or plausible. What are the chances that someone near by Frieza would just happen to mention the kai weakness for no reason?MeleeniumRXJ said:
2. Frieza still has an awful reputation. I think someone would bring this up before he gets promoted. Or that they'd at least consider Mr. Goody Two Shoes God's Pet Toppo before him.
3. GoDs aren't competing in this tournament.
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@Everlasting
I don't think we were arguing. Just discussing about it.
@Ryukuma
I could (unfortunately) see Goku accidentally blurting this out.
And idk, it doesn't seem like having good morals is a prerequisite for becoming a Hakaishin. Geene is described as very ruthless and may have been an evil mortal before becoming a GoD. The fact that Frieza is who he is, may actually be seen as a good quality for the job.
The theory/leak/whatever says above that Frieza continues participating as a GoD. If that's true, he would likely solo everyone.
I don't think we were arguing. Just discussing about it.
@Ryukuma
I could (unfortunately) see Goku accidentally blurting this out.
And idk, it doesn't seem like having good morals is a prerequisite for becoming a Hakaishin. Geene is described as very ruthless and may have been an evil mortal before becoming a GoD. The fact that Frieza is who he is, may actually be seen as a good quality for the job.
The theory/leak/whatever says above that Frieza continues participating as a GoD. If that's true, he would likely solo everyone.
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What do you guys think about Gin's comment in last episode? He said there was no point in battling because he knew the outcome. Some people say he knew daishinkan would trolled them (I don't see how. Daishinkan said the arena was indestructible), some people say he would 1v3 Iwan, Arak and liquir. What do you think?
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@IkaniL Well it depends to be honest. I mean it IS technically Multi-Universe Level but normally in these cases 2-C is given to characters who can warp entire Space-Time Continnums and not just parts of another like Shin Budokai Janemba.
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Why? Goku's an idiot but he doesn't say stuff for no reason. What context during a conversation with Frieza or anyone else would justify him saying this?
You may not need to be a good person, but Frieza is still not well liked by people such as Beerus and Whis (or it doesn't seem like they do, I don't know) who would probably object to his promotion. But even then it's still more likely Toppo, a well known candidate for GoD would be considered before this random guy.
Why does everyone love Frieza so much in this prediction? Not only is everyone not upset that he murdered 2 gods in front of Zen'ō (which the theory doesn't say someone else would "accidentally" do this), but that they also will promote Frieza on the spot, and then make an exception for him to have him compete as a GoD. Despite this also giving the complete advantage to a clearly unworthy universe as well. What did this guy do to garner such special treatment?
It's a cool idea. But IMO this "theory" is pretty implausible for several reasons. That's really it for me.
You may not need to be a good person, but Frieza is still not well liked by people such as Beerus and Whis (or it doesn't seem like they do, I don't know) who would probably object to his promotion. But even then it's still more likely Toppo, a well known candidate for GoD would be considered before this random guy.
Why does everyone love Frieza so much in this prediction? Not only is everyone not upset that he murdered 2 gods in front of Zen'ō (which the theory doesn't say someone else would "accidentally" do this), but that they also will promote Frieza on the spot, and then make an exception for him to have him compete as a GoD. Despite this also giving the complete advantage to a clearly unworthy universe as well. What did this guy do to garner such special treatment?
It's a cool idea. But IMO this "theory" is pretty implausible for several reasons. That's really it for me.
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