Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Sir_Marvulous]

far more actually, we don't have a solid number tho

It stops being unique after 10 times

 

[Omegabronic]

And we just talked about the premise of why that is wrong

all i saw is that goku would adapt faster, but the attacks alone are not the only problem, Sans has numerous ways to desoriente an enemy

 

[Omegabronic]

It stops being unique after 10 times

what stops being unique exactly?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

what stops being unique exactly?

Sans' responses to you dying and coming back

 

[Omegabronic]

Sans' responses to you dying and coming back

yeah.......what i say about we not having a solid number still remains true tho

 

[CryoTheMayo]

the entire point was that he would die before adapting

By being comatose and staying still? By not just vaporising all of Sans' attacks with his aura alone? By not teleporting to Sans directly and exploding him?

you know, using the fact that someone is a child doesn't really tell much about their experience

It kind of does because it brings into account their neurological development. A child is not going to be as competent as an adult mentally. Especially not an adult that has spent their entire life on martial arts and has outperformed beings with thousands of years of martial arts experience.

all i saw is that goku would adapt faster, but the attacks alone are not the only problem, Sans has numerous ways to desoriente an enemy

None of which would do anything against fighters like Goku. Especially given that they have an omnidirectional energy sense and are used to fighting at MFTL+ speeds in all directions, including upside down.

 

[Tyranno223]

by Xeno Goku he is, the others like Freeza he isn't

My original comment focused on Xeno Goku, the others were tertiary.

 

[Omegabronic]

By being comatose and staying still?

Law hax makes Sans attack first no matter what, so tell me, would goku try to block any of the attacks at least once in the begining?

By not just vaporising all of Sans' attacks with his aura alone?

why would goku do that against someone he can feel that is only slightly stronger than Mr.Satan? also, i don't remember of goku weaponizing his aura like that in any fight, that would also imply that he is powering up with an aura, which is also weird for him to do against someone he sees as very weak

By not teleporting to Sans directly and exploding him?

again, why would he go this far against someone so much weaker than him?

It kind of does because it brings into account their neurological development. A child is not going to be as competent as an adult mentally.

Frisk very much keeps up with trained guards and thousand of years old people who fought in a gigantic war and still survived even with an one shot worthy power gap, goku is far more skilled than that sure, but they are clearly far more skilled than a normal Kid irl

Especially not an adult that has spent their entire life on martial arts and has outperformed beings with thousands of years of martial arts experience.

well.....how many years did hit spent fighting and what kind of experience did he accumulated in those? of all of goku's extraordinary feats why did you choose the one that means less of them all?

None of which would do anything against fighters like Goku. Especially given that they have an omnidirectional energy sense and are used to fighting at MFTL+ speeds in all directions, including upside down.

you do know that the speed in the matches was equalized right? besides you speak as if goku or any of them would instantly try AOE against attacks they can feel that have no attack power to even scratch them.....which is also weird?

 

[Omegabronic]

My original comment focused on Xeno Goku, the others were tertiary.

i know, which is why just comented on them and not Xeno Goku, because heroes should be obvious that stomps sans no matter what

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Jiren has an invincible barrier. The way it was described any character has it.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

lemme grab a compilation of energy attacks deflected by breathing rq

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Law hax makes Sans attack first no matter what, so tell me, would goku try to block any of the attacks at least once in the begining?

That doesn't mean they can't act. It's never been treated like that even after Sans got his limited law hax

why would goku do that against someone he can feel that is only slightly stronger than Mr.Satan? also, i don't remember of goku weaponizing his aura like that in any fight, that would also imply that he is powering up with an aura, which is also weird for him to do against someone he sees as very weak

again, why would he go this far against someone so much weaker than him?

Maybe because he can sense killing intent? Also Goku knows from years of experience that a small power level is not always what it seems

you do know that the speed in the matches was equalized right? besides you speak as if goku or any of them would instantly try AOE against attacks they can feel that have no attack power to even scratch them.....which is also weird?

Good thing Dragon Ball characters regularly speed amp and react to faster attacks as pointed out by Cryo

 

[Nullflowerblush]

eh, only four off the top of the ol' noggin.

 

[Omegabronic]

That doesn't mean they can't act. It's never been treated like that even after Sans got his limited law hax

it is, why do you think that they description of it makes constant notes that Sans fights in turns?
you also didn't answered my question

Maybe because he can sense killing intent?

and that would be enough for goku to killer mode when the said "killer intent" is of a 9-B character?

Also Goku knows from years of experience that a small power level is not always what it seems

and that means that goku would instantly go kill mode because?

Good thing Dragon Ball characters regularly speed amp and react to faster attacks as pointed out by Cryo

yeah? and goku would do that against someone he can feel is far weaker than him because...?
you also didn't answered my question again

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

it is, why do you think that they description of it makes constant notes that Sans fights in turns?
you also didn't answered my question

I ain't seen anyone treat it like that but you and like two other people and you are the same guy who said Sans can ignore a 2-C barrier

yeah? and goku would do that against someone he can feel is far weaker than him because...?
you also didn't answered my question again

That means he can fairly easily react through sheer reaction speed, adaptability, and skill

 

[Omegabronic]

I ain't seen anyone treat it like that but you and like two other people

will you answer my point about what is in the profiles?

and you are the same guy who said Sans can ignore a 2-C barrier

yeah.......he ignores durability

That means he can fairly easily react through sheer reaction speed

his reaction speed is not listed as higher than his combat speed in the profile tho...

adaptability, and skill

you ignored my questions again for some reason

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Law hax makes Sans attack first no matter what, so tell me, would goku try to block any of the attacks at least once in the begining?

That working on non-UT characters is listed nowhere on his profile. His 'Law hax' is limited to the gameplay mechanics of Undertale. And Sans has zero way of enforcing that on other people.

why would goku do that against someone he can feel that is only slightly stronger than Mr.Satan? also, i don't remember of goku weaponizing his aura like that in any fight, that would also imply that he is powering up with an aura, which is also weird for him to do against someone he sees as very weak

Because he is bloodlusted and has no idea of Sans' durability. To add further Goku doesn't need to 'weaponise' his aura, his aura would passively destroy all of Sans' attacks because of the AP difference.

again, why would he go this far against someone so much weaker than him?

In the event that Goku is struggling to reach Sans he will find an opening to teleport to him and Sans will explode into dust because Goku has no idea how fragile he is.

Frisk very much keeps up with trained guards and thousand of years old people who fought in a gigantic war and still survived even with an one shot worthy power gap, goku is far more skilled than that sure, but they are clearly far more skilled than a normal Kid irl

Via resets. A human child with enough attempts can beat any monster. Goku is infinitely more skilled. Also those people lost that war, pretty horribly too.

well.....how many years did hit spent fighting and what kind of experience did he accumulated in those? of all of goku's extraordinary feats why did you choose the one that means less of them all?

You're in a Dragon Ball thread. Have you seen the story? No? Go watch/read Dragon Ball. Anyone posting in this thread should be well aware of Goku's portfolio.

you do know that the speed in the matches was equalized right? besides you speak as if goku or any of them would instantly try AOE against attacks they can feel that have no attack power to even scratch them.....which is also weird?

Yes? And DB characters can speed amp with their Ki. And I'm not saying any DB character would instantly go for an AoE attack but if they shoot a Ki Blast at Sans and it misses it will explode. And we have, again, already seen that Freeza's Death Beam can cause a city-size explosion.

In an actual fight between Sans and Goku, Goku would dodge all of Sans' attacks or try to destroy them, realise he isn't making leeway he would use Afterimages to trick Sans and would try to knock him out with one blow to the skull, which would kill him by mistake. Or Goku could just project his aura, vaporising Sans' attacks. Or he could just notice Sans is getting exhausted (like against Freeza) and would just dodge all of Sans' Danmaku and then Sans would be unable to keep fighting.

The only wincon for Sans is Goku letting Sans hit him and that's assuming Goku is in that type of mood. Other characters, like Freeza, would just go for the kill because they don't care about him.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

will you answer my point about what is in the profiles?

The profiles don't say the opponent can't act

yeah.......he ignores durability

KARMA and soul attacks are the dura neg bruh. They have to hit someone with a soul

his reaction speed is not listed as higher than his combat speed in the profile tho...

Cryo already pointed out that characters can react to ki attacks which scale above their travel speed

 

[Fezzih_007]

why would goku do that against someone he can feel that is only slightly stronger than Mr.Satan?

Because Sans is a monster, not like a normal being.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Because Sans is a monster, not like a normal being.

To be fair some Earth citizens are just anthropomorphic animals

That being said Goku is not one to underestimate a low power level when he can sense killing intent

 

[CryoTheMayo]

it is, why do you think that they description of it makes constant notes that Sans fights in turns?
you also didn't answered my question

Cool. Sans has a horrible limitation where once he finishes his attack he'll let his opponent act because he adheres to Undertale mechanics. Nothing states that Sans can force that onto other characters though.

So either your argument of 'turns' means nothing because Sans can't enforce those rules or it means Sans is horribly limited in the actions he can take because he is operating on a turn-based system while his opponent isn't.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

and that means that goku would instantly go kill mode because?

Y'know Goku kills, right? And, by SBA, Goku enters the fight with the intent to kill, right?

When Goku intends to kill (i.e., Red Ribbon Army, Tambourine, Drum, Demon King Piccolo, Kid Buu, the resurrected Frieza after Whis's Temporal Do-Over, etc.), he kills. When Goku intends to kill, he goes all-out from the very beginning and attacks with decisive blows aimed to finish his opponent off.

Sans being weaker is not going to deincentivize Goku to go all-out; in fact, considering Sans is that much weaker than he is, meaning he has nothing to gain from the fight, he is likely going to kill Sans immediately and without a second thought, like with Yakon.

 

[Omegabronic]

That's listed nowhere on his profile. His 'Law hax' is limited to the gameplay mechanics of Undertale. And Sans has zero way of enforcing that on other people.

no it isn't, enforcing it into other people is what he does in the game

Because he is bloodlusted

wait he was in the thread? that changes a lot of things

and has no idea of Sans' durability.

of course he does, he can feel it

To add further Goku doesn't need to 'weaponise' his aura, his aura would passively destroy all of Sans' attacks because of the AP difference.

his aura passively destroy all that come in contact with it?

In the event that Goku is struggling to reach Sans he will find an opening to teleport to him and Sans will explode into dust because Goku has no idea how fragile he is.

and would he try to block any of the attacks first? also goku knows exactly how durable sans is, Ki sensing exists just for that

Via resets. A human child with enough attempts can beat any monster.

they can also do in first try without dying once per some Neutral endings, besides with the more tries, more they learn and more experienced they get, so it ends up the same either way

Goku is infinitely more skilled.

goku is far more skilled than that sure

you know that i have said that right?

Also those people lost that war, pretty horribly too.

the point is that he survived it, besides your point is that they being a child makes them iherently inferior to any adult ever, the fact that they keep up with adults already debunks your points about them not having any skill

You're in a Dragon Ball thread. Have you seen the story? No? Go watch/read Dragon Ball. Anyone posting in this thread should be well aware of Goku's portfolio.

i was asking about Hit's, not Goku's, i am very, very aware of how much of a monster goku is in skill

Yes? And DB characters can speed amp with their Ki.

.....which is what we use to rate their speeds in the profiles........that is already what was equalized

And I'm not saying any DB character would instantly go for an AoE attack but if they shoot a Ki Blast at Sans and it misses it will explode.

which is why sans' attacking first matters greatly, also sans can just avoid the explosion, and i am pretty sure Goku almost always starts with HtH

And we have, again, already seen that Freeza's Death Beam can cause a city-size explosion.

it can.....but why would freeza make such big explosion against a 9-B character?

In an actual fight between Sans and Goku, Goku would dodge all of Sans' attacks or try to destroy them

Goku is MFTL+, Sans is hypersonic, that should be obvious shouldn't it?

realise he isn't making leeway he would use Afterimages to trick Sans and would try to knock him out with one blow to the skull, which would kill him by mistake.

assuming that you are talking about speed equalized, because otherwise this isn't even a fight
of course, goku would try to dodge all the 9-B attacks instead of trying to block any of them in the begining, yeah, that makes sense
also for someone who assumed i didn't knew anything about DB you sure seens forgetful about what Ki sensing is

Or Goku could just project his aura, vaporising Sans' attacks.

still need to see the citation for that to be a passive thing auras in DB do, krillin was fodderizing the Freeza soldier in return of F saga, yet his aura wasn't damaging any of them

Or he could just notice Sans is getting exhausted (like against Freeza) and would just dodge all of Sans' Danmaku and then Sans would be unable to keep fighting.

if it reaches at that point, which i don't see how it would tbh, Sans just uses his Law Hax to force an incon between him and goku

The only wincon for Sans is Goku letting Sans hit him and that's assuming Goku is in that type of mood.

you assume that goku wouldn't even try to block and would care to evade a 9-B attack why exactly?

Other characters, like Freeza, would just go for the kill because they don't care about him.

considering how much weaker Sans is then him, freeza would go for the kill, but not overboard, since he doesn't care, which will be deadly when one attack hits him and he gets killed in 5 seconds
also cell and black let themselves get hit when dealing with weaker oponents of such degree,sooo

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

also cell and black let themselves get hit when dealing with weaker oponents of such degree,sooo

Black lets himself get hit against WORTHWHILE OPPONENTS

Just like Goku if they're not worth his time he won't even humor the idea

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Goku Black's whole kink is getting hit.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Goku Black's whole kink is getting hit.

For the purpose of it making him stronger. Mf is not gonna be incentivized to do that against a 9-B

 

[Nullflowerblush]

freeza would go for the kill, but not overboard

Curious. What exactly is "not overboard" for Frieza? As far as I know, "not overboard" for Frieza is not blowing up the planet.
He throws out Death Beams like candies.

 

[Omegabronic]

The profiles don't say the opponent can't act

they do tho, hence why he simply not attacking makes the oponent unable to attack, because it is his turn and not the enemy's

• Limited Law Manipulation (Over the course of his battle with Chara, Sans has been shown to break and manipulate the battle mechanics of the Undertale world. Some examples are: Attacking while the player is on the menu, being the only monster that actually starts the battle with his turn, making an unavoidable attack after Chara spares him, manipulating the fight box to make it longer, and infinitely extending his turn, making the opponent unable to attack him given it's not their turn yet.[1] It should be noted however that Sans can only "infinitely extend" his turn by not executing his turn at all, and thus he presumably won't be able to do any attacks until he does so)

KARMA and soul attacks are the dura neg bruh. They have to hit someone with a soul

this shows me that you didn't read the profile, Karma is not soul based at all:

• Durability Negation and Status Effect Inducement (Sans is able to inflict KARMA with each attack, a type of poison effect which whittles the opponents HP down overtime.[1] KARMA is heavily implied to affect even Flowey despite lacking a SOUL[3])

Cryo already pointed out that characters can react to ki attacks which scale above their travel speed

why does travel speed matters for a match that is equalized in combat speed?

Because Sans is a monster, not like a normal being.

Sans is just about as a monster as any alien, or animal people, or mummy, ghosts, etc, that Goku has encountered, he is nowhere threatening enough in his appearence, have you not read any of OG db?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

• Durability Negation and Status Effect Inducement (Sans is able to inflict KARMA with each attack, a type of poison effect which whittles the opponents HP down overtime.[1] KARMA is heavily implied to affect even Flowey despite lacking a SOUL[3])

Holy shit what do you not understand about "the attack has to hit a person"

 

[Nullflowerblush]

have you not read any of OG db?

talk about irony.

 

[Omegabronic]

Curious. What exactly is "not overboard" for Frieza? As far as I know, "not overboard" for Frieza is not blowing up the planet.
He throws out Death Beams like candies.

yeah, what i meant is, as far as we have saw, he wouldn't start with City busting AOE against someone he knows is far weaker than him, specially in the thread that he was a mere 1 meter away from Sans

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

have you not read any of OG db?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Holy shit what do you not understand about "the attack has to hit a person"

Also blud I specifically mentioned KARMA and soul attacks separately because I knew that for a fact

 

[TheGreatBanana]

What stops dbz characters..from just flexing thier aura? We know that flexing one's aura causes fear [to really weak enemies] and can stop/destroy weaker attacks. Why can't they just let out thier aura and make all of sans attacks ...disappear. Also ki sensing allows you to see characters faster than you and the after image can even fool characters that are faster than you. Plus...didn't goku use his prediction in base to counter hit...ya know, the person who can blitz and one shot SSB vegeta.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Curious. What exactly is "not overboard" for Frieza? As far as I know, "not overboard" for Frieza is not blowing up the planet.
He throws out Death Beams like candies.

He can also just glare and be done with it. Frieza should have zero qualms about doing that too

 

[TheGreatBanana]

He can also just glare and be done with it. That really does not sound out of character for Frieza

Frieza legit only has to breath to create tornados or glare to vaporize mountains.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

yeah, what i meant is, as far as we have saw, he wouldn't start with City busting AOE against someone he knows is far weaker than him, specially in the thread that he was a mere 1 meter away from Sans

His starting move on ANY target (including Namekian children) is the Death Beam, which IS the city-destroying AoE.

 

[Omegabronic]

Cool. Sans has a horrible limitation where once he finishes his attack he'll let his opponent act because he adheres to Undertale mechanics.

yeah, so is the oponent

Nothing states that Sans can force that onto other characters though.

why do you think that the Law manip is there in the first place?

So either your argument of 'turns' means nothing because Sans can't enforce those rules or it means Sans is horribly limited in the actions he can take because he is operating on a turn-based system while his opponent isn't.

both of them are fighting in those rules, sans forces frisk to follows the rules he manipulates in the game

Black lets himself get hit against WORTHWHILE OPPONENTS

he didn't care enough to dodge or block the bullets and bombs of the human resistance in the future timeline

Just like Goku if they're not worth his time he won't even humor the idea

in goku's case he will most likely try and neck chop to make Sans go unconcious, altho with Sans' higher reactions and the Law hax making him attack first, that will be hard to do

talk about irony.

but i did tho

 

[Spinoirr]

Goku Black's whole kink is getting hit.

Then Vegeta got this kink

 

[Omegabronic]

Holy shit what do you not understand about "the attack has to hit a person"

you said that they had to hit someone with a Soul, you never said that they need to hit a person only, but for that i ask, where did you get that limitation from?

What stops dbz characters..from just flexing thier aura? We know that flexing one's aura causes fear [to really weak enemies]

not accepted in the profiles currently

and can stop/destroy weaker attacks.

also not accepted in the profiles currently

Why can't they just let out thier aura and make all of sans attacks ...disappear.

i still need scans of that being a thing that their aura do passively

Also ki sensing allows you to see characters faster than you

true, but would any of them even try to dodge at first against 9-B attacks?

and the after image can even fool characters that are faster than you.

why would goku use after images in the very begining of the fight?

Plus...didn't goku use his prediction in base to counter hit...ya know, the person who can blitz and one shot SSB vegeta.

why is everyone assuming that goku will take Sans seriously enough to try and predict his attacks to dodge everything that he trows in the begining? He can feel that Sans is 9-B, in his mind sans is just some fodder who can do nothing against him

His starting move on ANY target (including Namekian children) is the Death Beam, which IS the city-destroying AoE.

since when is every death beam that he trows that big?