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Dragon Ball Super Cosmology

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But the thing is Sera, you do have to debunk the Cosmology in order to disagree with people besides Zen'o becoming 2-C. Because if the Cosmology is separate space-times, then Beerus and Champas combined feat is, no matter what, 2-C. Which makes anyone who's beyond their combined power 2-C as well.

Which is why I'm saying the cosmology needs to be discussed as this is a cosmology issue more than a character tiering issue.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
But the thing is we can't disregard the cosmology debate.

In order to get Beerus, Champa and Gogetas tiers in check we need to deal with the cosmology first as it effects whether or not 2-C anyone besides Zen'o is even possible.

If we accept the universes as seperate space-times, then Beerus and Champas combined feat is undoubtedly 2-C. But if the universes are not seperate space-times after all, then the feat is 3-A. Some argue its 2-C in favor of the upgrade and others argue its 3-A being against the upgrade. And right now its at a standstill.

So we have to address the cosmology in itself first before we get to dealing with the GoDs and Gogeta.
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Not really, because one statement from Vados, especially one contradicted by less care given when stronger characters than Beerus and Champa were fighting, is enough to suggest the statement was taken out of context.
 
Think about it.

Planet busting statements were reiterated multiple times since the Saiyan Saga, we still get planetary statements in Super.

Universal statements are reiterated since the BoG saga (or movie if you wanna get technical).

Multi-universal statements for anyone except Zen'o have not been reiterated. We have one statement and only one, a statement that has little validity now that the series has progressed with stronger characters. That's a fact.
 
One statement from two characters is still one statement.

Whis did not stop Gogeta and Broly from fighting despite them being "stronger" than Beerus and Champa. We can claim "PIS" all day, I know an outlier when I see one. Goku and Jiren were in the WoV so they are an exception, but if Whis was so worried about universes getting destroyed, he would've stopped Gogeta and Broly from fighting, especially when they were duking it out much more ferociously than Beerus and Champa's little scuffle.
 
I do not even known when Gogeta and others to were upgraded to 2-C; first the difference between Low 2-C and 2-C is not simply x2 as far I'm aware, and second both can destroy both universes given time, if they move.
 
Sera EX said:
One statement from two characters is still one statement.
Whis did not stop Gogeta and Broly from fighting despite them being "stronger" than Beerus and Champa. We can claim "PIS" all day, I know an outlier when I see one. Goku and Jiren were in the WoV so they are an exception, but if Whis was so worried about universes getting destroyed, he would've stopped Gogeta and Broly from fighting, especially when they were duking it out much more ferociously than Beerus and Champa's little scuffle.
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Your argument is coming from RealLife.

You can't expect Whis stop a fight that wasen't part of a Akira/Toei script and called it PIS because it does not fit your argument.
 
Sounds like a textbook area of effect fallacy, no one is concerned about the universe getting destroyed besides the intial Beerus vs Goku encounter, Why does it suddendly seem odd to you that there is no concern for collateral damage now?
 
I didn't even call it PIS. I literally said calling it PIS doesn't prevent it from being an outlier. And it doesn't matter if it's not "part of the script". Power scaling has rules. If Gogeta was stronger than Lord Beerus and Broly was stronger than Beerus too, them two fighting would be the equivalent of two Destroyers fighting, yet Whis had zero care in the world. I'm well aware modern Dragon Ball is badly written. That's the reason for my skepticism. Hype and hyperbole is what lead to people thinking Jiren was 5-dimensional.
 
AguilaR101 said:
Sounds like a textbook area of effect fallacy, no one is concerned about the universe getting destroyed besides the intial Beerus vs Goku encounter, Why does it suddendly seem odd to you that there is no concern for collateral damage now?
Click to expand...
False. Beerus v. Champa happened after Goku v. Beerus and they were afraid two universes were going to be destroyed.
 
AoE Fallacy doesn't work like that.
 
She isn't arguing that. Why are people trying to jump into calling out fallacies as quick as possible?
 
Sera EX

Make a CRT of the DB Cosmology insted of wasting time here. I want to see your argumnets fro why they share the same Space-Times.

Closed this thread!
 
AoE Fallacy doesn't work like that.

AoE Fallacy is the fallacious belief that because a planet busting attack didn't destroy the planet, it's not planet level,

The argument here is not about Gogeta and Broly not destroying the universe during their fight, especially when Broly was sonly stated to be likely stronger than Beerus. The argument was using Whis and Vados' statement to justify a rating that has no basis.

Intention is key in DB, but I'm sure a rampaging Broly has no intention to preserve the universe he's in. It goes against his character mindset while literally bloodlusted. So yes, Whis should have treated Broly more seriously if he was a threat to the universe or worst, multiple universes.
 
@Proud

She said drop the cosmology debate. Why are you pushing her to debate cosmology when Kukui is the one saying cosmology has to be discussed?
 
@Kukui

Outlier. It has no basis until it's backed up by evidence, be it further statements or feats.
 
How can an outlier apply to 2 characters though? I would understand if we tried making Beerus and Champa individually 2-C, but this is a feat for their combined power. I don't think combined power feats can have Outliers apply to them since its not individual effort.

Plus, Beerus and Champa dont have anti feats with combining their power.
 
And let's say it is a 2-C feat, that's only the combined power of Beerus and Champa doing that. You guys are literally claiming Gogeta > Beerus and Champa's combined might. There's zero evidence to prove this.
 
@Professor

So you think Gogeta > Beerus and Champa combined? And yes people ARE trying to make Beerus and Champa individually 2-C
 
"Stomping Broly" who according to Goku is probably stronger than Beerus. Yeah, sure, that's > Beerus and Champa combined.
 
Anyway. I'm closing this. Feel free to resume the Gogeta debate on the Gogeta thread.
 
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