Dragon Ball revisions for the late Namek arc.

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Captain Ginyu is listed as merely 5-B while post third near death power increase Vegeta, second near death power boost Gohan, and 1st form Frieza are listed as high 5-A. This scaling is incorrect. Ginyu's power level is a little less than one fourth of Frieza's first form. Vegeta did NOT "match first form Frieza". After their brief skirmish, Vegeta was out of breath while Frieza was not, and Vegeta clearly stated that if he, Gohan, and Krillin all fought together against Frieza, they could possibly win. An official power level scan shows that at the time, Vegeta's power level was still less than half of Frieza's, as it was at 250000 while Frieza's first form clocks in at 530000. Krillin's at the time was given as 75000 while Gohan's was normally 200000 and grew much higher when he was angry. Vegeta was absolutely NOT a match for 1st form Frieza by himself at the time. Vegeta's PL should be similar to the entire Ginyu Force's combined power (Ginyu's is 120000, Recoome should be at around 40000 given his performance against Vegeta when he had a PL of 30000, Jeice and Burter were said to be about even with Recoome, and Guildo should be at at least 10000 given Krillin and Gohan were at 13000 and 14000 respectively when they fought him). Five 5-B's do not make a high 5-A. Either Ginyu should be upgraded to Large Planet Level, or Vegeta should be downgraded to Large Planet Level during his fight against first form Frieza. Gohan I'm not sure about since his power does spike when he's angry and he did slightly hurt second form Frieza, but it makes no sense for one guy to be at 5-B and another guy barely more than twice as strong as him to be at high 5-A. Either Ginyu should have an upgrade or Vegeta at the time should be downgraded.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Sorry they don’t accept PLs

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Sorry they don’t accept PLs

Well, it's still inaccurate to say that Vegeta matched 1st form Frieza when he was clearly out of breath while Frieza was not and he said that if he, Gohan, and Krillin all fought together, they could stand a chance. That part needs to be changed, and I would recommend changing his ranking to Large Planet Level and Gohan's to Large Planet Level normally, Dwarf Star Level when angry. As of now, his page inaccurately says that he was an even match for 1st form Frieza by himself at the time. Can you try and bring some other people familiar with the series into this thread to discuss that?

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew_Schroeder @SSJRyu1 @Theglassman12 @Super_Saiyan_God_Julian @Antoniofer @Crabwhale

What do you think about this?

 

[AKM sama]

Given how casually Freeza was able to perform a his Dwarf Star level feat, and Vegeta obviously managed to make him use more power to the point even Freeza thought that he could defeat him if he got help from Gohan and Krillin, it makes perfect sense for Vegeta to scale. That does not mean Ginyu, who was weaker than Vegeta would scale too. That's backwards scaling.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Well, his profile should at least be changed from "Matched Frieza in his first form" to "Contended with Frieza in his first form and could have beaten him with help from Krillin and Gohan". As is, it implies that Vegeta by himself was an even match for Frieza, which is not accurate.

 

[AKM sama]

Yes, I agree that the justification can be improved.

 

[Antvasima]

I am also fine with if the profile page description is updated.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with AKM.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Vegeta is weaker, 250,000 according to V-Jump, but at least somewhat comparable narratively, and Frieza's feat was casual like was said above, so Id say Vegeta would scale. Captain Ginyu scaling to First form Frieza sounds like to much of a stretch to me though.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Pretty sure Freeza's Scouter reached 500,000 before it exploded when Vegeta was pushing himself to his match when they were matching arms together.

So a Vegeta pushing himself to his limit comes very close to First Form Freeza's casual power.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Ginyu's PL is 120000, Vegeta's during the fight with first form Frieza was 250000, and first form Frieza before his training in Revival F was 530000. Granted, PLs are not linear as you all have said. Even the DB Wiki acknowledges this by pointing out how Goku's PL at the start of the series is 10, only twice that of the human farmer Raditz kills, yet he is clearly much stronger than twice that a normal human, suggesting each point has a large gap between it. Still, I find it odd for 120000 to be merely 5-B while 250000 would be high 5-A. Shouldn't there be a low 5-A somewhere in there? How do you go from at least Planet Level to Dwarf Star Level and completely skip over Large Planet Level?

 

[SSJRyu1]

I can't find any mention of Vegeta having 500,000 power level, but v-Jump does confirm at least 250,000 before the scouter broke. Although he did catch an angry Friezas punch, and grappled with him, so is portrayed as somewhat comparable. I wouldn't be surprised if his actual PL was greater, but the scouter just broke before it could register that. Vegeta should definetly scale based on being somewhat comparable in combat to first form Frieza,

As for Ginyu, an "at least 5-B" is fine, and I mean you could even say he's vastly above Saiyan saga Vegeta, but below First form Frieza, so 5-A would be reasonable to, given the gap from 5-B to 5-A is a relatively small margin, and 5-A covers a very large margin leading up to high 5-A where casual First form Frieza, and Vegeta with around 250,000 PL even rests.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

So, change the wording of Vegeta's profile for that bit to note that he could win with help from Gohan and Krillin, and possibly make Ginyu low 5-A?

The current statistics for the profiles say that the moon level tier ends with King Kai and Piccolo during the battle with Nappa, whose PLs are both given as 3500, and the small planet level tier begins with Nappa, whose PL is 4000, and ends with the likes of base Goku during the fight with Vegeta, King Vegeta, and Guldo, placing the small planet tiers in the 4000-10000 range. Krillin is said to be at solid planet level during the fight with the Ginyu Force. Everyone after that is listed as solid planet level until Vegea's third power boost, where it jumps from 5-B to high 5-A. There should have been a base 5-A in there somewhere, and I think Ginyu should reach it. His power was greater than Dodoria, monster Zarbon, Saiyan Saga Vegeta, and Nail all put together.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here exactly.

 

[AKM sama]

I can change the wording to:

"Was able to contend with first-form Frieza and pushed him to the point where Frieza thought he could win with the help of Gohan and Krillin"

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

That will be fine for Vegeta. Should we change Ginyu to Large Planet level? He's 120000 to Vegeta's 250000 and first form Frieza's 530000. His power level is vastly superior to the rest of the mid Namek Saga characters, apart from Frieza. To put it in perspective, Saiyan Saga Vegeta and Cui are at 18000, first zenkai Vegeta is 24000, Dodoria is 22000, base Zarbon is 23000, monster Zarbon is above 24000 but no more than 30000, second zenkai Vegeta is 30000, Nail is 42000, Guldo is about 10000 (much stronger than Nappa and gave Gohan and Krillin trouble but a flashback implies he was much weaker than Vegeta before he went to Earth), Recoome, Jeice, and Burter are around 40000 each, and base Goku without the Kaioken was 90000 during his fight with Ginyu (180000 is with the standard Kaioken). If Recoome, Jeice, Burter, Goku, Zarbon, Dodoria, Cui, and Nail are all planet level, Ginyu should be Large Planet level. I know PLs are not considered linear here, but if he's that far above everyone I mentioned who is considered planet level, and just a little less than half of the PL of third zenkai Vegeta, who is Dwarf Star level, I think he should reach Large Planet level.

 

[AKM sama]

All that proves is that he is a lot stronger than Saiyan saga characters and still weaker than the Vegeta who kept up with Freeza. There is no definite basis to make him Large Planet level, since once again, saying he is weaker than Vegeta is backscaling and we don't know the actual amount of how much weaker he is. And saying he is stronger than Saiyan saga characters is just saying he upscales from them, to an unknown amount.

 

[BlackeJan]

Holy crap I keep forgetting to make a thread lol

but anyways.....High 5A calc that’s currently used from Frieza is incorrect. @AlexSoloVaAlFuturo was the one who told me this

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

All that proves is that he is a lot stronger than Saiyan saga characters and still weaker than the Vegeta who kept up with Freeza. There is no definite basis to make him Large Planet level, since once again, saying he is weaker than Vegeta is backscaling and we don't know the actual amount of how much weaker he is. And saying he is stronger than Saiyan saga characters is just saying he upscales from them, to an unknown amount.

Not just Saiyan Saga characters. A lot of Namek Saga ones too. His PL is greater than that of Nail, monster Zarbon, and the Vegeta who fought Recoome all put together.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Holy crap I keep forgetting to make a thread lol

but anyways.....High 5A calc that’s currently used from Frieza is incorrect. @AlexSoloVaAlFuturo was the one who told me this

Can we bring them here to discuss?

 

[Antvasima]

@AlexSoloVaAlFuturo

Are you willing to give some input here?

 

[Antvasima]

He does not seem to have logged in to this forum though, so he may have retired completely from this community.

Shouldn't we simply let AKM apply his revision instead?

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

I suppose. Are we really sure that simply having power greater than 4 separate 5-B's (Nail, Zarbon, Dodoria, and Cui) all put together is not enough to make you high 5-B or low 5-A? If so, the gap between planet level and large planet level must be higher than I thought.

 

[AKM sama]

I made the change and I answered the OP's latest query elsewhere already, so I am closing this thread.