Downgrade to 10b or perhaps even 10c for Ned Stark

[LordWhis]

He needs help carrying Ice. Real-life life greatswords weigh around 4 to 5 pounds with this 4'10" example weighing 4 lb 10 oz- https://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-danish-2-hander.htm and this 5'4" or 5'6" example weighing 5.95 pounds- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Sword (the prop of Ice is barely more than 4'9" tall).

It could be argued that Ice is an executioner's sword but even those rarely exceeded 5 pounds- https://www.academia.edu/3220162/Executoner_s_Swords_their_Form_and_Development._Brief_summary

Ice being made from Valyrian steel should be much lighter. Furthermore, we see Ilyn Payne having no trouble whatsoever carrying around a steel replica of Ice (which should be much heavier than the original) without any assistance.

Furthermore he cannot even lift Robert's warhammer and we see individuals like Gendry carry warhammers and other weapons of similar size, often with one hand without any trouble.

Everything points to Ned being exceptionally physically weak, or atleast average.

He should be downgraded to 10C or at least 10b.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

1) It's absolutely massive, so yeah it would require some assistance carrying around, as with other similarly-sized swords. You can't just carry a sword that size on your hip or back. Also, Ned doesn't seem to have much trouble swinging it.

2) No argument, it is an executioner's sword. That's almost exclusively what it's been used for.

3) Ilyn Payne was carrying Ice, not a replica

4) Robert's warhammer is obviously quite heavy (here's a fairly historically-accurate warhammer, for compariso), and Gendry, as someone who works in the pretty rigorous field of smithing, is noted (in the books at least) to be quite muscular, and is a Baratheon (the men of House Baratheon are noted to often be powerfully built), is of course stronger than average, and even stronger than a fair few above average peeople, so I'd say him one-handing a Baratheon warhammer is more a point in his favor than a point taken away from Ned.

Not everything. In the show continuity (the one primarily used for our profiles), Ned was known to use Ice in battle. While it is true Ice is lighter than a normal steel sword of its size, its size in and of itself would make it pretty ungainly for combat, and would require a decent amount of strength to control fluently.

So, no. 10-C Ned never

 

[LordWhis]

The hammer you linked weighs only 2.5 pounds.

Ilyn Payne was given a steel replica of Ice after Ice was smelted into the Lannister swords.

Gendry was only 16 years old in the beginning of the series and never demonstrated amazing strength. Lineage is no qualifier of strength, Tyrion and Jaime are brothers.

Real life greatswords and executioner's swords weigh 4-5 pounds, Ice probably weighs around 2 pounds. It does not at all require a decent amount of strength to control a perfectly balanced 2 pound weapon in 2 hands that is over a foot shorter than you and has a grip designed for leverage. Even a 4-5 pound weapon for that matter.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

And Robert's warhammer has a far larger head

16 years old is approaching prime age-wise, he killed 2 city guards pretty easily with an unrealistically large warhammer, and yes, lineage can be a qualifier, especially if it is consistent as with the Baratheons. The case with Jaime and Tyrion is an outlier since Tyrion has a genetic defect that impacts his strength.

battle-ready greatswords irl weigh upwards of 7 pounds, with ceremonial ones weighing up to over 10. Also, Ice is probably not that short, it likely hits 5'5, easy, and given its role as an execution sword, likely has a handle meant for chopping, and not for leverage optimized for battle. As for Ice being 2 pounds, unlikely. A better estimate for its weight compared to a regular steel sword its size would likely be 2/3 or so, so it would weigh something more like 4.5-6.5 pounds.

 

[LordWhis]

The article you linked says Greatswords weigh 4 pounds.

The prop of ice is 4'9". This is a fact

Here's a 4'10" sword that weighs 2 pounds- https://lkchensword.com/striking-eagle

I've already linked William Wallace's 5'4" sword weighing a mere 5.95 pounds and another article on execution swords saying they rarely exceeded 5 pounds. And executioner's swords needed to be extremely well balanced to decapitate someone in one strike.

Here's a 5'11" or 6' sword that weighs 4 pounds and it's Japanese style so it'll be probably be heavier than a western style greatsword of the same length- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ELth_Q5rCpg

The taller guy in this video is 6'1" and the greatsword seems slightly taller than he is and he and his mate are swinging it around without much trouble- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YpYe75Gkr0k

Here are reviews of a 6'6" sword on Amazon in which people say they have no trouble wielding it- https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Nodachi-Carbon-Steel-Giant/product-reviews/B00B5HJPUS

There's a sword on this page that's almost 8'2" that weighs about 7 pounds- http://armabohemia.cz/Novestr/newsA.htm

Is Arya and Sansa a better example ?

Viserys and Rhaegar ?

Samwell and the other Tarlies ?

Robyn/Robert Arryn ? (Arryns are legendary)

Edmure Tully (He is a Whent from his mother so is related to Oswell Whent who should be somewhat comparable to Arthur Dayne and Gerald Hightower)

Joffrey and Jaime ?

If we're talking about Baratheons- Renly ?

 

[Antvasima]

No quoting very long posts please.

 

[DivineTedrius]

Pretty sure this is a shitpost but anwyay, quotes of him being "unable to lift Robert's warhammer" are made in passing and irrelevant. Let's go by actual feats which puts Ned at 10-A.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that makes sense.

 

[LordWhis]

And Robert's warhammer has a far larger head

twice as large, 4 times, 10 times. 100 times ? Even that puts him below 10A

@Ant & Divine: What about him needing help carrying Ice which probably weighs only a couple of pounds if even that.

 

[Antvasima]

Attack potency and lifting strength are recurrently treated as separate abilities within fiction.

 

[DivineTedrius]

Are you talking about the fact that people carry it around for him?

That's just like squires carrying around swords for knights. It doesn't mean it's too heavy, it just means that the lord in question doesn't carry it around with him at all times, because he has servants for that.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Are you talking about the fact that people carry it around for him?

That's just like squires carrying around swords for knights. It doesn't mean it's too heavy, it just means that the lord in question doesn't carry it around with him at all times, because he has servants for that.

This ^ Even if it is quite light, greatswords are pretty ungainly to carry by one's own. They can't be carried on the hip, and can't be drawn from the back, so an assistant usually carries it on their back and presents it to their superior when it's time for the sword to be used

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it seems like his statistics should stay as they are then. Should we close this thread?

 

[LordWhis]

He should still get a lifting strength downgrade for not being able to lift Robert's warhammer

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that might be reasonable.

 

[DivineTedrius]

I don't think so. Robert's warhammer is supposed to be exceptionally large heavy as a testament to Robert's strength and there is no reason to equate it to a real life warhammer. ASOIAF doesn't exactly follow real life physics faithfully.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Agreed ^ even modern strongmen have serious difficulty swinging 20lb curiosity piece greatswords, now imagine the majority of that mass no longer being evenly balanced, but instead piled onto the tip. That's basically Robert's warhammer.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Should we close this thread then?

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Yes

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.