Doubt between the relationship between information manipulation + text manipulation

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

When does text manipulation become type 2 information manipulation?

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bump

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Dunno but I like to view info manip more like computer code or binaries like 1010

 

[UltiDontICBM]

i think when it goes beyond texts to all forms of information and can directly impact reality.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

i think when it goes beyond texts to all forms of information and can directly impact reality.

What if the text acts as a fundamental aspect that gives small orders to reality? Does this fit that description?

 

[UltiDontICBM]

What if the text acts as a fundamental aspect that gives small orders to reality? Does this fit that description?

maybe a possibly rating.

 

[Arkenis]

What if the text acts as a fundamental aspect that gives small orders to reality? Does this fit that description?

Yeah. That is pretty much how it works. The fundamental aspect would need to be clear

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

.

.

With the proper context, could this work?

 

[Arkenis]

With the proper context, could this work?

Could you explain whats going on here?

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Type 2 Information Manipulation stuff is only really applicable if there's some indication that the information itself is a fundamental building block of reality, in the sense that if you deconstruct anything down enough it will eventually be constituted of the text/information - Like for example you break down a rock -> dust -> molecules -> atoms -> sub atomic particles -> quanta -> [insert the text or thing that would qualify as fundamental information]

Text manipulation in the form of runes/scripts are extremely common in pretty much any verses that has magic (because it's very connected to the idea of magic, the idea that it functions using symbols etc), though due to the narrowness of it's applicability & the lack of any indication of the above relationship between it and reality it is often not even regarded as relevant.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Could you explain whats going on here?

Conrad had sealed all of Noele's powers with his key magic, Asta nullifies this when he hits antimagic into his grimoire.

Grimoires in BC act as a record for all of the user's spells

Text manipulation in the form of runes/scripts are extremely common in pretty much any verses that has magic (because it's very connected to the idea of magic, the idea that it functions using symbols etc), though due to the narrowness of it's applicability & the lack of any indication of the above relationship between it and reality it is often not even regarded as relevant.

Magical runes in BC are extremely connected to knowledge and are used to give small orders to magic and the more of these orders, the more complex and powerful the magic is. Magical runes can also be used to create the actual element with the substances present in the environment

Type 2 Information Manipulation stuff is only really applicable if there's some indication that the information itself is a fundamental building block of reality, in the sense that if you deconstruct anything down enough it will eventually be constituted of the text/information - Like for example you break down a rock -> dust -> molecules -> atoms -> sub atomic particles -> quanta -> [insert the text or thing that would qualify as fundamental information]

I was more interested in this part of type 2 information manipulation

2. Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information, which serves as fundamental building block of reality. This can allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality.

These manipulation can come on many levels. For some it might just be the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities, while others can rewrite information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature.

And I also found it very similar to maou gakuin's type 2 information manipulation

Information Manipulation (Types 1 & 2. <Teles> engraves knowledge directly into the target's head[86]. At the core of every spell there is an existing theoretical and practical formula that allows it to function. A magical blueprint that determines the function of the magic. In addition, altering the spell formula changes the properties of the magic itself),

Type 2 Information Manipulation stuff is only really applicable if there's some indication that the information itself is a fundamental building block of reality, in the sense that if you deconstruct anything down enough it will eventually be constituted of the text/information - Like for example you break down a rock -> dust -> molecules -> atoms -> sub atomic particles -> quanta -> [insert the text or thing that would qualify as fundamental information]

Curiosity:
The BC author has a history of working with exactly this kind of power in his early work

 

[Arkenis]

Conrad had sealed all of Noele's powers with his key magic, Asta nullifies this when he hits antimagic into his grimoire.

That's powernull.

Grimoires in BC act as a record for all of the user's spells

that's at best magic. Maybe infor 1

Magical runes in BC are extremely connected to knowledge and are used to give small orders to magic and the more of these orders, the more complex and powerful the magic is. Magical runes can also be used to create the actual element with the substances present in the environment

This is just magic

I was more interested in this part of type 2 information manipulation

What you've shown doesn't reach that.

And I also found it very similar to maou gakuin's type 2 information manipulation
Information Manipulation (Types 1 & 2. <Teles> engraves knowledge directly into the target's head[86]. At the core of every spell there is an existing theoretical and practical formula that allows it to function. A magical blueprint that determines the function of the magic. In addition, altering the spell formula changes the properties of the magic itself),

I guess? type 2 seems more fundamental overall but mundane like this I guess?

I'd need to see this more in depth for bc but I guess it could be limited type 2 info?

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Magical runes in BC are extremely connected to knowledge and are used to give small orders to magic and the more of these orders, the more complex and powerful the magic is. Magical runes can also be used to create the actual element with the substances present in the environment

Magic being connected to knowledge in the seen that it requires study and understanding of it's baseline energy to improved is not uncommon for like the vast majority of "magic" in fiction, the archetype of mages as scholars is extraordinarily popular for this exact reason so I don't particularly see it as relevant. Giving orders to magic via text doesn't read as information manipulation to me and creating natural elements using a specific application of magic doesn't mean that every bit of matter in the verse is all inherently composed of magic neither are they composed off the runes (which is what would be necessary for the info type 2). For me the idea also completely falls flat because Asta isn't constantly erasing every mundane object around him while exerting massive amounts of anti magic nor is he deleting the ground when he drops one of his anti-magic swords

I was more interested in this part of type 2 information manipulation

And I also found it very similar to maou gakuin's type 2 information manipulation

Tbh if this:

Information Manipulation (Types 1 & 2. <Teles> engraves knowledge directly into the target's head[86]. At the core of every spell there is an existing theoretical and practical formula that allows it to function. A magical blueprint that determines the function of the magic. In addition, altering the spell formula changes the properties of the magic itself),

is the only justification for info type 2 then I think it should probably be removed or at least put as limited since it can't actually affect anything else beyond spells though a specific difference between what I see her and BC is that the spells presented her are constructed from the ground up as formula's

Curiosity:
The BC author has a history of working with exactly this kind of power in his early work

I've read hungry joker though Idk the rules regarding trying to cross scale mechanics between two separate pieces of work from a single authors which take place in completely difference setting that have no "canon" connection.

for instance, Samurai 8 has a lot to do with information manipulation and expresses it much more clearly than the authors other work Naruto/Boruto where there's stuff like Ada's Omnipotence ability which was referred to as the programming language that was said to have created world not being categorized as information manipulation based off the more clearly expressed example in the authors other work. Even if Ada's power does eventually become info manipulation I doubt the reason for it would be based of information in Samuria 8 rather than what is said in naruto

Basically if they aren't the same verse, then their mechanics don't scale or cross over

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Tbh if this:

is the only justification for info type 2 then I think it should probably be removed or at least put as limited since it can't actually affect anything else beyond spells though a specific difference between what I see her and BC is that the spells presented her are constructed from the ground up as formula's

A demotion has already been attempted, but it was agreed that it was the most correct way to portray the ability in the verse

Maou Gakuin Downgrades are Back Again (For the Second Time)

We are currently using the LN, but I got someone who is a Japanese speaker to translate an excerpt of the feat to prove that Anos' fear feat is valid, don't mind if I share it here? Sure I suppose

vsbattles.com

a specific difference between what I see her and BC is that the spells presented her are constructed from the ground up as formula's

Runic arrays are also creating things from scratch

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

I've read hungry joker though Idk the rules regarding trying to cross scale mechanics between two separate pieces of work from a single authors which take place in completely difference setting that have no "canon" connection.

for instance, Samurai 8 has a lot to do with information manipulation and expresses it much more clearly than the authors other work Naruto/Boruto where there's stuff like Ada's Omnipotence ability which was referred to as the programming language that was said to have created world not being categorized as information manipulation based off the more clearly expressed example in the authors other work. Even if Ada's power does eventually become info manipulation I doubt the reason for it would be based of information in Samuria 8 rather than what is said in naruto

Basically if they aren't the same verse, then their mechanics don't scale or cross over

I'm aware of this part, it's just a curiosity that I wanted to share

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Runic arrays are also creating things from scratch

Excuse my lack of clarity, what I mean is that the magic in the example able is itself composed of formula - Rune arrays in BC are created using mana and function simply to give further/detailed instructions to a set magic but the magic energy itself isn't made of formula/runes and even though the method can create real material the runes themselves aren't what substances in general of the verse are made off.

1. To go further all the runes do is only give instructions to magic to do something, the substance that then created by the magic is not composed off the runes in of themselves. The runes are symbols that provide magic with specific instructions to create the real matter rather than what gets converted into the real material
2. Second of all a fire mage in a generic magic verse can be able to create fire from scratch or an earth mage can do the same for earth but that doesn't mean fire/earth in general in the verse is composed of magic nor are they composed of the runes they use to manipulate that magic - On the wiki Jutsu from Naruto (I'll use this as an example again) are taken to create natural elements [like lightning] but it isn't accepted that because of this everything in the verse is made of chakra which to me is made clear to be the same case in BC simple because Asta doesn't evaporate the world around himself despite using the literal antithesis to magic all the time.

 

[Neoxxi16]

A demotion has already been attempted, but it was agreed that it was the most correct way to portray the ability in the verse

Maou Gakuin Downgrades are Back Again (For the Second Time)

We are currently using the LN, but I got someone who is a Japanese speaker to translate an excerpt of the feat to prove that Anos' fear feat is valid, don't mind if I share it here? Sure I suppose

vsbattles.com

I don't think it's a good idea to use the Maou Gakuin verse, as the thread you sent did not reach a conclusion on this topic, it was just postponed, and it seems that only this scan allowed Type 2 information manipulation to remain.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

I think my questions about this have already been answered. Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread