Doom Revision Thread - Demon-Edition!

[KieranH10]

Aight, my turn to make a big Doom thread!

So I got a decent bit to talk about which concerns the entire verse, mostly demon stuff...

Part 1: Decomposite the Demons: (Accepted)
The current demons profiles that the verse has composite the Demons, when there is no reason to.
Throughout the series the demons have changed more than enough to be considered different keys, take the Pinky as the best example, from Classic, to Doom 3, to modern times, the pinky has undergone multiple design changes.

There is also lore to further prove these to be different incarnations of the demons. Developers have stated that the demons have various breeds to make up for their different appearance. The best example of this would likely be Fireborne Barons, which are outright stated in-game to be different breeds.
So essentially Demon profiles need decompositing, because they vary between games. I believe the profiles should follow the key below.
Key: Classic | Doom 3 | Modern

Obviously there will be exceptions to this, perhaps demons change enough between DOOM 2016 and Eternal to justify another key, such as Barons. Those will be noted below.
These three keys note the 3 most major differences in the series, with Classic obviously being their original incarnations, Doom 3 being completely different to the rest of the series in most cases, and Modern games stating that Demons are different breeds to their classic selves, and stating that they're stronger than before.

With Doom 3 being so different, and the Marine from Doom 3 already having his own separate profile, I also got thinking, where does Doom 3 sit?
After looking through lore and going through any potential noteworthy sources. I believe that Doom 3 is in the same canon, however it's very clearly another universe.

• First hint of it being a different universe is well, no Doomguy. The Marine is blatantly another incarnation of our Main Series Doomguy as he does not follow the story of our Doomguy at all, he's essentially a glorified standard marine if we're honest. He shows no indication of knowing any story our main Doomguy would have experienced by this time. However, the Maykrs in Eternal claim there is someone fitting a Doomguy-esque role in every timeline, differing slightly between each one, the Marine in Doom 3 would fit this, since while he is very different, he still essentially does the same thing.
• However in Doom 3 Hell is overall treated the same, it is consistently stated to be another dimension, just like in the Modern Games, and this would fit with the Modern Games Hell to, as Hell is constantly stated to be a multiversal entity in the Modern Games, so it showing up in another universe still makes sense
• Different looking Demons is explained simply through different breeds, in the modern games demons are confirmed to have different breeds both in game and by devs, which explains why the Cyberdemon/Tyrant changes from 2016 to Eternal, as do a large number of demon designs, such as Mancubi, Prowlers, Soldiers, Imps, and more. Barons are outright classed as another breed in-game, with Fireborne Barons being the only Baron to show up in Eternal. Doom 3 Demons would be no different to these cases.
• Next is easter eggs and references between games, most notably the Soul Cube. We can see the Cube in both Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal, in 2016 the cube is seen in Olivia Pierces office in Lazarus Labs, and in Doom Eternal we see that the Slayer had since grabbed the Cube and brought it to the Fortress of Doom, so the cube holds some note to it in this universe too, while we never see the cube used in this universe, the detail of the Slayer bringing it to the Fortress indicates it's more than just a reference.
  • Another note that relates to this are stone carvings seen in both Doom 3 and the Modern series, these carvings all relate to the Soul Cube, depicting the same events in both universes, indicating that it is indeed the same canon, but separate timelines. More info on all of this can be found on the Doom Wiki.

With all of the above I believe it's more than safe to assume that Doom 3 is the same canon, but set in an alternate timeline, which means it's still the same Hell however, so our Demons are simply different breeds, but their differences mean we have to separate them from the main series. So essentially, same Demons, different breed, different stats.
The same applies with Weapons between games. Which means the BFG9K from Doom 3 scaling to main series bosses likely should not be the case, as said bosses are treated differently between universes. So we may need to start finding feats for Doom 3. For now the BFG will be at least 9-A via the statement on the Marine's profile regarding the BFG.

I will also note that Doom 64 Demons seem to vary a lot from their classic counterparts, but I am not personally knowledgeable enough on that game to give any major input, so I will leave that up to someone who knows more...

There's also the Live Action incarnations I guess but who cares about those amirite... Seriously tho if they were to be made they would be different keys too as they vary greatly from the main series.

So going through the list I think Demons should have the following keys (Spoiler,

Spoiler: I'm going through all demons here, even those without profiles. This is a long list...)

Demons:
Cyberdemon - Classic | Doom 3 | DOOM (2016) | Tyrant (DOOM Eternal)
Baron of Hell - Classic | DOOM (2016) | Fireborne Barons (DOOM Eternal)
Hell Knight - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern
Marauder - Only appears in Eternal so he's fine
Cacodemon - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern
Imp - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern
Lost Soul - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern
Spectre - Classic | Modern
Spider Mastermind - Classic | Modern
Icon of Sin - Classic | Modern
Hell Guard - Only appeared in one game
Arachnotron - Classic | Modern
Arch-vile - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern
Mancubus - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern (Possibly split due to different designs)
Pain Elemental - Classic | Modern
Revenant - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern | Doot
Nightmare Spectre - Only appears in one game
Mother Demon - Only appears in one game
Nightmare Imp - Only appears in one game
Cherub - Only appears in one gone
Guardian of Hell - Only appears in one game (I call this profile btw...)
Seekers - Only appears in one game
Maggot - Only appears in one game
Sabaoth - Only appears in one game
Tick - Only appears in one game
Trite - Only appears in one game
Vagary - Only appears in one game
Wraith - Doom 3 | Modern (These could very well be completely separate things tbh)
Hell Hunter - Only appears in one game
Bruiser - Only appears in one game
Forgotten One - Only appears in one game
Helltime Hunter - Only appears in one game
Berserk Hunter - Only appears in one game
Maledict - Only appears in one game
Vulgar - Only appears in one game
Gore Nest (?) - Only appears in one game
Hell Razer - Only appears in one game
Cyber-Mancubus - Could be separated into 2016 and Eternal like Mancubus
Pinky - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern
Prowler - DOOM (2016) | DOOM Eternal
Summoner - Only appears in one game
Harvester - Only appears in one game
Dreadknight - Only appears in one game

Zombies:
Former Human - Honestly Former Human should be deleted and split into the different types of them that we see, "Former Human" refers to any zombie in the game, which have a large amount of different types...
Soldier - Classic | Doom 3
Heavy Weapon Dude - Classic
Wolfenstein SS - Only appears in one game
Chainsaw Zombie - Only appears in one game
Fat Zombie - Only appears in one game
Flaming Zombie - Only appears in one game
Morgue Zombie - Only appears in one game
Commando Zombie - Only appears in one game
Security Guard Zombie - Only appears in one game
Bio-Suit Zombie - Only appears in one game
Possessed Engineer - Only appears in one game
Possessed Scientist - Only appears in one game
Possessed Worker - Only appears in one game
Possessed Soldier - DOOM (2016) | DOOM Eternal
Unwilling - Only appears in one game
Possessed Security - Only appears in one game

Weapons:
BFG9K - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern (9K) | BFG10K
Unmaker - Classic | Unmaykr

• Unmaker profile should be changed
  • Keys for different demons aren't needed
    • Change to Varies
    • Add a note on profile

Super Shotgun - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern (Could be split between 2016 and eternal)
Pistol - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern
Gauss Cannon - Only appears in 2016
Heavy Assault Rifle - Heavy Assault Rifle (2016) | Heavy Cannon (Eternal)
Burst Rifle - Only appears in 2016
Hellshot - Only appears in 2016
Lightning Gun - Only appears in 2016
Repeater - Only appears in 2016
Static Cannon - Only appears in 2016
Tesla Rocket - Only appears in 2016
Vortex Rifle - Only appears in 2016
Chain Gun - Classic | Doom 3 | DOOM (2016) | DOOM Eternal
Combat Shotgun - Classic | Doom 3 | DOOM (2016) | DOOM Eternal
Plasma Gun - Classic | Doom 3 | DOOM (2016) | DOOM Eternal
Chainsaw - Classic | Doom 3 | Modern
Ballista - Only appears in Eternal

With all of these new keys, scaling will very likely change between profiles, classic guns should only scale to classic demons, etc. Afaik tiers will stay the same for the most part however. Just classic stuff is weaker than modern stuff, Doom 3 generally should only scale to it's own stuff, as it takes place in another universe.
There will be some downscaling between keys, most Modern keys are currently the strongest the profiles will be, thanks to statements of them growing stronger over time, generally better feats, and more.
The general consensus with this changed scaling will be along the lines of:

• Classic series - The Classic series will likely downscale from the modern games, most calcs have come from the Modern Games, and there are statements in-lore and by devs that state that demons have grown stronger over time.
• Doom 3 - Doom 3 will likely start scaling only to itself, and only itself. Yes, Doom 3 takes place in the same multiverse, and is the same canon, same Hell, etc, but is not the same universe, and with the major differences this game has with the others, it is not at all safe to say that it scales to the others. Yes the demons and such share names, but these are very different incarnations, and should be treated on their own standards.
• Modern - The Modern Games will likely be the strongest keys the demons have, as stated before there are in-game statements, WoG statements, and many demons are a lot stronger compared to their classic selves in gameplay, such as the Arch-Vile and Pinky.
• Others - Any other keys demons will get will be case-by-case, if someone decides to make Live Action keys, then they will only scale to their own feats, as Live Action movies aren't stated to be the same canon afaik, and therefor cannot be compared in any way. However if Doom 64 gets keys I would assume it's safe to say they would upscale from the Classic series, but still be below the Modern games, this is due to 64 being set between the Classic and Modern games, however like i've said before, I'm not too knowledgeable on 64 myself, so again if this is wrong please correct me.

Part 2: Demon Resistances: (Accepted)
This one is fairly simple and should just be on the profiles already to be honest.

Resistance to Poison and Acid: Throughout Doom Eternal we see that the Demons are not affected by the Cyber Mancubuses toxins, going by the codex this is both toxic, and acidic:

Mechanized and heavily augmented, the Cyber Mancubus is equipped for frontline warfare. Equipped with dual-barrel arm-mounted mortar cannons, the Mancubus's integrated weapon system utilized the body's naturally occurring biotoxins, refining this corrosive, viscous membrane into toxo-plasmid ammunition feed. Siphoned from the spinal gland and funneled intravenously to the weapon conversion system, the corrosive secretion is discharged by an alternating firing mechanism, which dispenses the toxo-plasmid as either heated projectile or ignited fluid, the latter resulting in a flamethrower-like incendiary spray capable of burning through armored plating.

Resistance to Electricity: Demons are also shown not taking damage from electrical pools throughout the game, these same pools harm the Slayer, which grants a resistance to Electricity Manipulation. Best example I could find on Youtube was here with a Zombie not being affected.
Resistance to Fire: Demons take barely any damage from the Slayers Flame Belch attack, Meat Hook fire, and can be lit on fire to little effect, granted they still technically take damage, it is absolutely minimal, and still qualifies as a resistance.

Part 3: Other minor stuff;
Just some other stuff I found or anything anyone else believes is a minor thing I guess I'll add here...
Arch-Vile Forcefields: With forcefields the Arch-Vile is capable of tanking direct BFG Blasts in Eternal, so the forcefields are 8-A... (Not too Important anymore)

Resistance to Radiation: Demons take no damage from pools of radioactive waste which the Slayer needs a Radiation Suit to stand in safely. (Thanks Thing) (Accepted)

Resistance to Mind Manipulation: Stronger demons should warrant some resistance to Mind Manip, due to them being able to resist the effects of the Arch-Viles magic. Which directly controls the minds of lesser demons, from the codex: (Accepted)

Forged from Hellfire, the Archvile is feared among lesser demons for its innate ability to channel and manipulate the unholy powers of Hell magic. Descended from the eldest race of demons, the Archvile has long held a place within the ruling caste of high-born demon lords. Possessing superior intellect among the demon ranks, the Archvile's psychomancy powers make it a natural-born ruler of the savage and primitive beasts of Hell, capable of bending weak-minded underlings to serve its will.

New Icon feat: Classic Icon has a Low 7-B feat, should get a "possibly", modern stuff should get a "Likely at least" rating due to vagueness. (Accepted)

BFG Heat Revisions: BFGs attack are Heat based, which is fine for the BFGs tier, but others shouldn't scale to 8-A. Instead they should scale to the little bit of concussive force in the BFG, which should still at least be more than other weapons, so "At least 9-A" (Accepted)

Crucible Paralysis Inducement Changed back to Immortality Negation: The lore and codex indicates the latter moreso than the former, and more assumptions have to be made regarding the former (Accepted)

Removal of Icons Glyph creation (Seems uncontroversial enough)

Current Subject:
Former Humans Splitting Up
Unmaker Key Change

Pretty sure that's all I got for now... I'm sure I'll find some more...

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

About time someone made stuff like this; although, I'd think live action adaptations and what not should have their own pages outright, not just different keys. I agree with decomposition the demons, but I'm going to comment on BFG scaling at some point...

 

[KieranH10]

Ikr. Yeah I was gonna propose the same for the Live Action stuff but thought a key would be easier. But yeah I suppose them having different profiles would work better considering the hugely different portrayals.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Ngl dude this is a fully gigachad move.

I think the only thing I would add is simply resistance to radiation manip,since demons in the Super Gore Nest aren’t effective by toxic waste whatsoever.

 

[KieranH10]

Heh.

Got it, I'll add it to the list!

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Heh.

Got it, I'll add it to the list!

I also believe higher tier demons (like the super heavy demons) should get some resistance to Mind Manip since it’s clear they are unable to be affected by the Archvilles command over demons.

 

[KieranH10]

That seems fair too. That's both shown and stated in the codex iirc so should be fine.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

When I mentioned BFG 9000 scaling; I pretty much agree older models shouldn't scale from the 2016 or Eternal versions and fine with "At least 9-A" in lack of better options. And BFG's newer models being Tier 8 are indeed solid, but after the heat feats are in order; it may not fully scale to the durability of everyone.

 

[KieranH10]

Pretty sure the BFG with the heat stuff was brought up in the last thread, iirc there wasn't much of a problem with the BFG heat stuff. So that seems fine.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I mean, it is extremely hot thermal equilibrium wise. And it probably does heat up targets super fast, thus a lot of watts; normally it does heat targets that fast if it's 2 milllion degrees. But there's still issues in us assuming the amount of blunt force trauma equates to the amount of thermal energy. There's at least as much thermal energy as their is overpressure, not the other way around was the actual detail. It would still be 8-A levels of heat tolerance, but not 100% certain of blunt force trauma. But I know Doomslayer still had other feats that were even better.

 

[KieranH10]

Yes, that seems correct, how do you think this will affect bosses and such then?

I will note that there does also seem to be some form of concussive force with the BFG too though, as it visibly gives pushback to wielders, and causes partially concussive explosions.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do know BFG has a 15 meter blast radius; which is where some blunt force trauma comes into play. But calculating that would only give us 9-A levels of blunt force by the looks of it. Though, if we find good fragmentation calculations, that's also good and possibly even better.

 

[KieranH10]

Yeah, the best statement I can find is the Doom 3 15 metre radius thing, which gets 9-A.

The main series however wont scale to that with these revisions though unfortunately. I'll get looking for some feats for it...
All I know right now is that the Codex in 2016 and Eternal refer to it as the strongest weapon in the UACs arsenal (Very likely meaning the strongest handheld weapon), and state it's fires pure argent energy. So there's not a lot of feats in the Codex to look into sadly. I'll see if I can find anything in-game.

At very least it scales far above the other weapons Doomguy has, which will be 9-A anyways.

 

[Fupdumpthegump]

I’ll try to find more feats for the og games. Speaking of feats from the og doom, wasn’t there a statement that the icon of sin had destroyed everything for miles after you defeated it, not sure what we could do with that but I still think is something to bring up.

 

[KieranH10]

It could be some kind of earthquake I guess. I believe that the quote was "Countless miles" however, so I don't think we can get a lot from it.

I'm currently busy with gathering feats from the Ancient Gods, and then I'll be going on to 2016 to cover the modern games. So I appreciate the help!

 

[Fupdumpthegump]

It was “untold miles”, although i don’t think that changes anything.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Untold and Countless/Innumerable essentially mean the same thing.

 

[KieranH10]

High 3-A when then?

Anyways Dark so to be clear, do you think that the current BFGs 8-A should continue scaling to the bosses and such or do you think the heat stuff should reduce the validity of them tanking shots?
Like I've said the BFG still shows some amount of concussive force so I'm personally fine scaling it still, but if you believe it should disregarded as a durability feat I'm fine with that too.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm unsure yet.

A heads up, 8-A alone is based on the thermal equilibrium of Doomguy's size; which Cyberdemon and the like a much larger and thus it could be seen as more impressive heat resistance wise for him. Spider-Mastermind though was technically partially vaporized by a point blank blast, though it was after he was significantly weakened, but that's where the 8-B vaporization calculation comes from. But it's a bit questionable for Spider-Mastermind to fully scale from it, but Cyberdemon should at least have 8-A levels of heat resistance outright.

And I don't think we should assume it has as much blunt force trauma as it does heat but at least 9-A, likely far higher is a bare minimum for the bosses. And if we fine more fragmentation calculations, I can see more upgrades in order.

 

[KieranH10]

Ok, that sounds fair.

In that case the only things left to debate are the demon resistances, my point on the Unmaker (Dunno if it's been noticed), and the other minor stuff that's been brought up.

 

[KieranH10]

Bumpo.

 

[Primestar3]

Untold miles can still be lowballed to at least 2 miles (likely much much higher tho). "Miles" is plural, after all.

This either means Icon's tentacles are strong enough to devastate the environment for miles even if his body is small or that his full body is miles big. If it is the latter, shouldn't he have type 3 large size based on this?

Large Size

Some characters have considerably higher measurements than ordinary ones, which causes some of their combat capabilities, especially strength, speed (although agility and maneuverability might be limited), and durability to increase. We call this having a Large Size. This should not be confused...

vsbattles.fandom.com

His tier rating would improve from what I understand. Like, to large town level or maybe small city level or so.

 

[KieranH10]

The full quote is here. "The Monster shrivels up and dies. Its thrashing limbs devastating untold miles of Hells surface"

I don't think this is enough to give much tbh. It's too vague in what happened.

 

[Primestar3]

IDK why everyone says that it is too vague. I don't really think it is that vague tbh.

Either his limbs aren't that big but that he is just strong enough to devastate miles with shockwaves.

Or he is just big enough that his trashing can devastate untold miles, which would probably mean it can be calced going by the large size page.

I think it would still more or less be the same tier. If not, the lowballed version can be chosen.

This is how I see it, at least. Perhaps I am wrong but IDK.

 

[KieranH10]

I personally don't think it's enough for size, as like you say, his thrashing could cause shockwaves or anything else.

The best I see is this being a powerful earthquake or something, as it states no explosion to destroy everything, just his power upon death being enough to devastate a large area. Typical earthquakes that do this are around Magnitude 6 to 7. Which would be Town level to Large Town level at most. But I still don't think we have enough evidence to suggest this.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Personally, I would call "Untold miles" to be hundreds or even thousands of miles at bare minimum if taken literally. But interpreting it as hyperbolic is also something commonly brought up; though I think it's still reasonable to at least consider it a decent sized Earthquake yes. I wouldn't mind saying it's at least Magnitude 6 yeah.

 

[KieranH10]

Well, assuming something like that would infer something along these lines:
Assuming a Magnitude 6 Earthquake for 100km according to the Earthquake Calculations page:

• (6) + 1.1644 + 0.0048*100 = Magnitude 7.6444
  • Using this equation: 10^(1.5*(Richter Magnitude)+4.8)
  • 10^(1.5*(7.6444)+4.8) = 1.8475662e+16 Joules
    • 4.4158 Megatons of TNT
    • Low 7-B

Assuming the same for 1000km:

• (6) + 6.399 + 1.66*log10((1000/110)((2π)/360)) = Magnitude 11.0718045728(Well then...)
  • 10^(1.5*(11.0718045728)+4.8) = 2.5568595e+21 Joules
    • 611.10409 Gigatons of TNT
    • High 6-C

With all of this I still don't personally think we have enough evidence to use this.

What are the opinions on the other points I have brought up?

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Idk.

Damaging the exposed weak spot of a High 6-C/low 7-B is iffy

 

[KieranH10]

I don't think we should use this feat as it's way too vague to assume much from it.

What do you think about the other subjects like the resistances and the Unmaker profile changes?

 

[Primestar3]

Idk.

Damaging the exposed weak spot of a High 6-C/low 7-B is iffy

I don't think Doomguy would scale for reasons you've given. It would only be valid for Icon.

I think Classic Doomguy is only supposed to be peak human. Though he can still gore demons with his knuckle rings (IIRC).

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

I think Classic Doomguy is only supposed to be peak human. Though he can still gore demons with his knuckle rings (IIRC).

What?

We have plenty of calcs disproving that notion lmao. Even with 1 knuckle ring on his hands, that still doesn’t ignorethe fact he needed his own raw strength to kill them.

 

[Primestar3]

What?

We have plenty of calcs disproving that notion lmao. Even with 1 knuckle ring on his hands, that still doesn’t ignorethe fact he needed his own raw strength to kill them.

I am talking about scaling him to a potentially megaton level creature, geez.

If he is supposed to be about peak human (even if he has superhuman feats), it wouldn't make sense for him to scale.

 

[KieranH10]

I don't see either Doomguy or the Icon scaling to the Earthquake calculations above, the feat is too vague to be considered viable as we simply don't know what actually happened.

Doomguy has multiple feats far above Peak Human, I believe his current rating is more consistent than a Peak Human rating.

 

[Primestar3]

I don't see either Doomguy or the Icon scaling to the Earthquake calculations above, the feat is too vague to be considered viable as we simply don't know what actually happened.

Doomguy has multiple feats far above Peak Human, I believe his current rating is more consistent than a Peak Human rating.

Why tho? The narration says Icon's trashing limbs caused it.

I don't see why "untold miles"would be hyperbole besides the "untold" part.

This is legit IMO.

 

[Primestar3]

@KieranH10
Also, I do think classic Doomguy is superhuman, not actually peak human, but he is still supposed to be peak human story-wise AFAIK. That's why I think it would be an outlier even if Doomguy scaled to Icon in their particular fight. He shouldn't be TOO far above human level.

 

[KieranH10]

Why tho? The narration says Icon's trashing limbs caused it.

Yes but we still don't know if this is due to it's sheer size or not.

I don't see why "untold miles"would be hyperbole besides the "untold" part.

The untold part is the relevant part, due to this statement, we cant assume anything major once again due to vagueness, at best we can make guesses.

Also, I do think classic Doomguy is superhuman, not actually peak human, but he is still supposed to be peak human story-wise AFAIK. That's why I think it would be an outlier even if Doomguy scaled to Icon in their particular fight. He shouldn't be TOO far above human level.

He has fought through mortal wounds, contended with Sentinels, and can still fight Demons with his bare fists. Among more. Even if he's presented as Peak Human, which I believe is arguable anyway, humans in fiction vary in power, so this isn't really a valid argument, as humans in fiction are often shown much more powerful than real life humans.
But Doomguy has shown many, many feats ranging from Wall level to Small Building level, it's much more consistent at his current rating.

 

[Primestar3]

Yes but we still don't know if this is due to it's sheer size or not.

Whichever gives him the lower end, I guess.

The untold part is the relevant part, due to this statement, we cant assume anything major once again due to vagueness, at best we can make guesses.

Miles is in plural, so it should at the very least be 2 miles.

He has fought through mortal wounds, contended with Sentinels, and can still fight Demons with his bare fists. Among more. Even if he's presented as Peak Human, which I believe is arguable anyway, humans in fiction vary in power, so this isn't really a valid argument, as humans in fiction are often shown much more powerful than real life humans.
But Doomguy has shown many, many feats ranging from Wall level to Small Building level, it's much more consistent at his current rating.

Wasn't it said that he was enhanced in the reboot? Pretty sure Classic Doomguy isn't enhanced.

Doom is still a semi-realistic universe, it's not like Looney Tunes or some stylistic anime. Like I said, wall level to small building feats for a peak human is fine but I don't think he scales to Icon physicals if Icon feat is legit, that would be too much. It's him targetting the weak points. This was not my main point anyway (I said it because whatever).

 

[KieranH10]

Whichever gives him the lower end, I guess.

He shouldn't scale at all sadly

Miles is in plural, so it should at the very least be 2 miles.

We still don't know the method at which everything has been destroyed, could be an earthquake, could be sheer size, could be a shockwave, we don't know.

Wasn't it said that he was enhanced in the reboot? Pretty sure Classic Doomguy isn't enhanced.

Yes, but standard humans in the Doom series are also at very least 9-B going by other marines feats and such, Doomguy is above these and is certainly above low level demons, who are also 9-A.

Doom is still a semi-realistic universe, it's not like Looney Tunes or some stylistic anime. Like I said, wall level to small building feats for a peak human is fine but I don't think he scales to Icon physicals if Icon feat is legit, that would be too much. It's him targetting the weak points. This was not my main point anyway (I said it because whatever).

Ok. Sadly I don't see the Icon getting anything from that statement either though.

 

[Primestar3]

@KieranH10

"We still don't know the method at which everything has been destroyed, could be an earthquake, could be sheer size, could be a shockwave, we don't know."

Can't we choose whichever one is the most lowballed possibility?

 

[KieranH10]

Not without more evidence no.