Dog Ningen ban appeal

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I’m sure some of you already know of this manga’s history but I’m sure most of you don’t seeing as it’s not super popular. This manga was created by DH animation(a black man) and was originally given a title with the n-word in it. Which along with Fandoms little knowledge of the series ultimately led it to being banned. But it has since be given an alternate title(more official title) by its creator, Dog ningen(which simply translates to human) which we should be allowed to use to ti

Amazon product ASIN B09BGLWYQW
In terms of the series content, well it might seem like just some inflammatory manga at first glance. Actually reading threw it shows that it’s much deeper than that. Even revealing the main characters original motivation to be a farce. He only says that so his father will stop sending assassins after him.

Simply put, Fandoms previous response to this series doesn’t hold up and it should be allowed to be indexed on this site.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Bump

 

[KingNanaya]

Bump

gotta wait 24 hours to bump

 

[Phoenks]

Completely agree.

On the last thread it was clear a lot of the discussion about this series was biased and came from those who did not take the chance to actually read through the series to get a better understanding of it's content. As a result many got this warped view of the series being some rape fantasy edgy shit post story.

I believe this is what lead it to being banned before as Antvasima was the one who summarized the verse to Fandom authorities based on what he was told.

The name issue isn't a problem anymore as it's officially published and sold with a new, non-inflammatory title.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Does an have an official Fandom wiki would by my main question. Last time, it was Fandom who told us they didn't think it be appropriate, but if we have a Fandom staff giving us an okay was still what was agreed last time.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Does an have an official Fandom wiki would by my main question. Last time, it was Fandom who told us they didn't think it be appropriate, but if we have a Fandom staff giving us an okay was still what was agreed last time.

Nope,which I would assume would be due to there said lack of knowledge seeing as most people in the previous thread we’re judging a book by it’s cover

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Even so, based on statements from Antvasima and Prom, it's more or less up to whether or not Fandom will allow it.

 

[Deagonx]

When Ant reached out to Fandom on the subject, they said it would not be allowed even if an alternate name was used, because the issue is not only the name but the fact that the nature of the content itself is a violation of TOS, so any wiki pages about it would be inherently rule-breaking.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, an official Fandom staff member told us that this comic book is unacceptable, and Fandom's staff not having noticed one unacceptable wiki among around 500,000 of them yet does not change that fact, so we will not feature it here, period.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

When Ant reached out to Fandom on the subject, they said it would not be allowed even if an alternate name was used, because the issue is not only the name but the fact that the nature of the content itself is a violation of TOS, so any wiki pages about it would be inherently rule-breaking.

Some have voiced that in terms of "Mature content," various verses such as Berserk or Elfen Lied are considerably much worse from what I heard and we still index those. So I'd just focus on if they are still sensitive about the title even with name change. Also, times have changed in which it's becoming more well known/officially published with Ningen being the official title is the new argument based on the OP.

Not saying this will change Fandom's decision, but it wouldn't hurt if we had them look again this time.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

When Ant reached out to Fandom on the subject, they said it would not be allowed even if an alternate name was used, because the issue is not only the name but the fact that the nature of the content itself is a violation of TOS, so any wiki pages about it would be inherently rule-breaking.

Why? When I read the rule I assumed it was an alt name made by us not the official source.How is the content a violation exactly?

 

[Deagonx]

How is the content a violation exactly?

Because the primary name of the source material features a racial slur. Even an "official" alt name wouldn't change the fact that we'd be featuring a series officially known as "Dog [Slur]" by talking around the name.

Some have voiced that in terms of "Mature content," various verses such as Berserk or Elfen Lied are considerably much worse from what I heard and we still index those. So I'd just focus on if they are still sensitive about the title even with name change.

We can ask, but I will not be surprised if they say no, as slurs are (for good reason) treated with a much higher sensitivity even than the type of graphic content featured in a series like Berserk.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Yes, an official Fandom staff member told us that this comic book is unacceptable, and Fandom's staff not having noticed one unacceptable wiki among around 500,000 of them yet does not change that fact, so we will not feature it here, period.

Ok then might I ask what you told them about the verse? Expect it’s not we’ve literally indexed worse there’s no reason for this to be banned which is why there previous ruling is straight up wrong

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We can ask, but I will not be surprised if they say no, as slurs are (for good reason) treated with a much higher sensitivity even than the type of graphic content featured in a series like Berserk.

I am aware, that is what I was arguing to be the main focus, but at the same time.

Because the primary name of the source material features a racial slur. Even an "official" alt name wouldn't change the fact that we'd be featuring a series officially known as "Dog [Slur]"

There are a lot of works that used to have horrible names before name changes; I know lots of books we don't feature here for obvious reasons. But some Adult Swim shows might have used to have names just as bad before changing names to something different entirely and/or less obvious.

As for my own stance, I will be neutral and just want to let Fandom decide.

 

[Antvasima]

Some have voiced that in terms of "Mature content," various verses such as Berserk or Elfen Lied are considerably much worse from what I heard and we still index those. So I'd just focus on if they are still sensitive about the title even with name change. Also, times have changed in which it's becoming more well known/officially published with Ningen being the official title is the new argument based on the OP.

Not saying this will change Fandom's decision, but it wouldn't hurt if we had them look again this time.

I cannot keep bothering Sannse about the same issues over and over. She likely finds it annoying enough when I ask her about new issues.

She has made her ruling here, and we should abide by it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I cannot keep bothering Sannse about the same issues over and over. She likely finds it annoying enough when I ask her about new issues.

She has made her ruling here, and we should abide by it.

Fair, but it does not have to be her. Could be another staff unless there aren't any active atm to handle the issues. Otherwise, I lean towards taking your word and saying we unfortunately have to reject it.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Because the primary name of the source material features a racial slur. Even an "official" alt name wouldn't change the fact that we'd be featuring a series officially known as "Dog [Slur]" by talking around the name.


We can ask, but I will not be surprised if they say no, as slurs are (for good reason) treated with a much higher sensitivity even than the type of graphic content featured in a series like Berserk.

Said name isn’t even arguably the official title considering it’s being selled as dog ningen

The only time it should be treated this highly is if said content is straight up meant to be inflammatory(like that one kkk film)

 

[Antvasima]

Fair, but it does not have to be her. Could be another staff unless there aren't any active atm to handle the issues. Otherwise, I lean towards taking your word and saying we unfortunately have to reject it.

As far as I have understood, she is the Fandom staff member mainly responsible for the area of appropriate types of content, and I cannot try to pit the words of different staff members against each other. It would be very inappropriate.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

As far as I have understood, she is the Fandom staff member mainly responsible for the area of appropriate types of content, and I cannot try to pit the words of different staff members against each other. It would be veryq inappropriate.

Then why not ask the same person? With said new info

 

[Antvasima]

Because she will consider it redundant spamming and give the same answer, and I personally find this verse disgusting, so I have no stake in fighting for its inclusion in our wiki.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Because she will consider it redundant spamming and give the same answer, and I personally find this verse disgusting, so I have no stake in fighting for its inclusion in our wiki.

What did you even tell her in the first place to make her come to her first conclusion? I have a feeling you’ve barely read the material

 

[Deagonx]

What did you even tell her in the first place to make her come to her first conclusion? I have a feeling you’ve barely read the material

It's not about the content of the story, but the name. As I said, this isn't up to us, it is up to Fandom.

When this issue last came up, he provided Fandom with a link to the forum thread we had about it at the time where this same argument was being made, and they responded:

"Hi Antvasima,

I'm not familiar with the comic book, but from your description it would be inappropriate for Fandom. Even if the article itself could be kept "clean", it would still be about offensive and explicit content. So it goes over the line I'm afraid.

Thanks for checking with us!"

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

It's not about the content of the story, but the name. As I said, this isn't up to us, it is up to Fandom.

When this issue last came up, he provided Fandom with a link to the forum thread we had about it at the time where this same argument was being made, and they responded:

"Hi Antvasima,

I'm not familiar with the comic book, but from your description it would be inappropriate for Fandom. Even if the article itself could be kept "clean", it would still be about offensive and explicit content. So it goes over the line I'm afraid.

Thanks for checking with us!"

The quote literally says it’s about the content and ant’s description of the verse

 

[Deagonx]

Yes, that was referring to the matter of it's title, original and altered, not the nature of the story.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Yes, that was referring to the matter of it's title, original and altered, not the nature of the story.

They literally say the series would be about offinsive and explicit content. They even refer to ant’s description of the verse. Clearly there not just talking about the name

 

[Deagonx]

The word "content" in this regard refers only to the name situation. When Ant contacted them that was the sole issue being asked about, and the discussion thread he linked them to was titled "Rule Against Verses with Slurs in Name" and the only aspect of it that was discussed was the original and altered titles. Ant had no knowledge of what the story entailed, and the focus was the title.

 

[Antvasima]

What did you even tell her in the first place to make her come to her first conclusion? I have a feeling you’ve barely read the material

I linked her to our then ongoing discussion about the verse, and asked what she thought.

 

[Antvasima]

The word "content" in this regard refers only to the name situation. When Ant contacted them that was the sole issue being asked about, and the discussion thread he linked them to was titled "Rule Against Verses with Slurs in Name" and the only aspect of it that was discussed was the original and altered titles. Ant had no knowledge of what the story entailed, and the focus was the title.

Well, I did know the description of the verse, including that the main character was on a journey to rape his own father...

 

[ImmortalDread]

Guys, I think we are now discussing knowingly it is beyond our authority to decide this verse to be kept or not. Should we close CRT?
Would be far more productive and saves everyone's time. We can argue about details and all, but it is still not up to us to decide its legitimacy.

 

[Deagonx]

Ahh, gotcha. As you point out however, the main focus was the discussion thread we had about it in which the OP's argument was explicitly brought up, so there's no mistake that Fandom understood the title situation.

It has a SFW Name that is used for the series' official publishing on Amazon

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

The word "content" in this regard refers only to the name situation. When Ant contacted them that was the sole issue being asked about, and the discussion thread he linked them to was titled "Rule Against Verses with Slurs in Name" and the only aspect of it that was discussed was the original and altered titles. Ant had no knowledge of what the story entailed, and the focus was the title.

Why would she use “content” to refer to a mere title, that’s not even what the word would refer to. And why would she use ant’s description of the verse as reference?

I linked her to our then ongoing discussion about the verse, and asked what she thought.

Then why is she only referring to your description?

Well, I did know the description of the verse, including that the main character was on a journey to rape his own father...

And that’s all you heard correct?

 

[Antvasima]

Ahh, gotcha. As you point out however, the main focus was the discussion thread we had about it in which the OP's argument was explicitly brought up, so there's no mistake that Fandom understood the title situation.

Yes, they understood the title situation as far as I recall.

 

[Deagonx]

Why would she use “content” to refer to a mere title, that’s not even what the word would refer to. And why would she use ant’s description of the verse as reference?

Look, you're being needlessly difficult here. The identical argument you're making was made in the thread that the Fandom staff was provided and made aware of. The word "content" is flexible and you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. Fandom was already given an explanation for the name situation and told us it would not be allowed, so that is the end of it. Please with this tedious arguing.

Guys, I think we are now discussing knowingly it is beyond our authority to decide this verse to be kept or not. Should we close CRT?
Would be far more productive and saves everyone's time. We can argue about details and all, but it is still not up to us to decide its legitimacy.

I believe we should close this, yes. This exact argument was made a year ago, shown to Fandom, and they explicitly rejected it.

 

[Antvasima]

Then why is she only referring to your description?

I do not recall well anymore, but I think that I provided a summary of what had been said in our discussion about the issue along with links to said discussion and an official page for the work.

 

[Antvasima]

Guys, I think we are now discussing knowingly it is beyond our authority to decide this verse to be kept or not. Should we close CRT?
Would be far more productive and saves everyone's time. We can argue about details and all, but it is still not up to us to decide its legitimacy.

Probably, yes.

 

[Deagonx]

Probably, yes.

Okay, I will do so now.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.