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DMC Hax Revival - Part 1

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Nico is a gag character, the DMC Van is Tier 0
The van is repeatedly shown to be performing ridiculous feats, throughout the story. It is an extension of the Nico. While it does takes place, it is treated as comic relief for for players. Same goes for Nico hurting a Empusa with a smoke. Or hurting Empusas with the van. I have seen various times how Nico or the van is used as some sort of anti-feat for being able to function under presence of demonic energy or being able to hurt or kill said immortal demons. When that is not how things would work.
1) She is a main character with a purpose, which is not suited for her to be presented in anyway shape or form be victim to demons. It would break her character and story. It would instead be a feat for her. Not the other way around.
2) She is an extra-ordinary genius for being able to work on demonic matter anyways, which would also warrant resistances to it.
So result?
We make a Nico & Van Co. profile later.
She will have intelligence feats, appropriate resistances, preparation, creation/invention etecetra. And most importantly some non-intrusive limited gag powers and resistances.


Supernatural and Anti-Demon weaponry.
Weapons designed for hurting and killing demons have been existing since ancient times, just like our own real world. For example holy water and magic, silver, spiritual powers, magical powers, alchemy etc. Demonic energy itself can be used to kill demons, since that's how fights go in demon world, how else would they be able to overcome metaphysical existence and immortality of demons after all? Lady herself uses silver bullets to harm demons for example, since she cannot magically create demons like Dante/Trish. Demonic matter is anything that is derived from demons, the demonic world or just plain infected with energy. Lady also used bike specifically made to outrun demons. There's a secret industry that thrives on this economy. There are various dealers of various trades that secretly tend to demonic and magical world. For example, here is Lady meeting with one such individual.
While masses at large are either unaware or purposely ignorant of the magical world; Government['07 Anime Ep2-3], specific advanced crime syndicates[DMC2 Novel - Chen], guilds, supernatural traders, religious clans[DMC4 Fortuna & DMC2 Vei De Marli - Protectorate Clans], specific corporate companies[DMC2 - Ouroboros], researchers, entire profession of demon hunters and paranormal mercenaries are all well aware of supernatural world.
Overall humans are crafty and persevering, using their creativity and resourcefulness to craft supernatural objects to aid in offense, defense, support and evasion from demons. Or just harness demonic power for their sake of advancements or their own nefarious purposes.
So Result?
More support for extreme survivability for demons via their supernatural nature. More support for supernatural forces ( powers/abilities/weapons/artefacts etectera) having rudimentary abilities like NPI, Soul Hex, Immortality Negation, empowerment and appropriate associated abilities in general for all. Specific powers/abilities/potency etcetera will be awarded to entities on feat by feat basis.


Humanity's Potential
Humans are repeatedly underestimated in the story, sadly it happens on a meta level as well. But that is not the case. Humanity has great potential for power. Humanity is core theme of the series, to be more exact love/empathy/compassion. That is what differentiates humans from demons. Humanity empowered Sparda to rise to apex of his power and defeat forces of hell single handedly. Humanity makes Dante and Nero gain staggering amounts of power. Humanity boosts Lucia to overcame her insecurities and personal demons and grow strong enough to even defeat Arius-Argosax when she couldn't even defeat Arius in human form. Humanity allows Lady to have relentless grit and unbreakable willpower, easily defending against the corruptive natures of demon forces, and pull off super human feats not possible for normal humans. Humanity empowered Trish to defy her former Lord's domination and instead grow attached to Dante, defending and recharging him in key moments and saving his life, it also makes her worthy of wielding Sparda aside from Dante when no else was able to. At the end of DMC5 it allowed Vergil to reach the peak of his power post joining of his human and demon half, even though logistically V has no substantive energy to provide, if at all, only because he went under significant character development and made peace with his humanity. Humanity is what makes Credo retain his pride and honor, and turn against the evil Order of Sword, allowing him to experience a peaceful angelic death.
Dante and Nero teach this same lesson to various evil humans who chased demonic power at the cost of their humanity. Dante even explains mechanics of how power of humanity works. It is in fact responsible magical potential in humans and allows empathetic demons to reach new heights of power.
So it's not a stretch at all to conclude that certain strong willed humans can resist and overcame the negative effects of demons, if not be capable of harming or killing them in situations of great pressure. Thus should be attributed to humans who have shown great feats of will and resilience in crisis against demons.
So result?
Supernatural Willpower, Subjective Reality, Reactive Evolution, Accelerated Development, Empowerment will be awarded to all characters demons or humans, for having potential to evolve. Those with awakened humanity will have it to far, far greater extent. Context sensitive abilities, powers and statistics will be noted on a feat by feat basis. This will be a verse specific power and will be elaborated later on.


Emphatic & Mind Hax
Reinstating the various mind wrecking powers of demons. It was removed on premise of side materials being contradictory and secondary to games and misrepresenting certain feats as anti-feats. Difference of canonicity is a very easy point to debunk. Some people used their personal opinions and preferences to declare what was usable and what wasn't, and dismissed feats as contradiction with broad brush strokes. That is a very faulty manner of conducting this verse.
1) We have an established canon for all material, based on official sources. All material are either produced in-house or their direction and conception is in-house even if contracted to be created by third party. Personal opinions and standards of audience are irrelevant to how the creators/owners view and operate with the stories.
2) While series is primarily a game format content, it doesn't degrade the other material created in different format to be lesser or inferior in canonicity. That's a completely irrelevant judgement factor. Stories are stories, in whatever format they are made. If something is to be arranged in greater and lesser canonicity, it needs to be considered organically with context on case by case basis, not blanket ban on entire material.
3) Different types of media will have different types of presentation of details and context for obvious reasons, that is their purpose and characteristic after all. Which is why novels or manga or other written material will have more details and unrestricted presentation of certain phenomenon or events. We aren't supposed to go out of our way to disassociate different materials or introduce contradictory interpretations when they can be peacefully merged with their corresponding counterparts.
4) We have already established how main cast of characters who are humans are shown to resist influence of standard demons, for obvious reasons to maintain flow and presentation of plot and characterisation and said main cast falling under upper echelons of humans who have higher resilience and willpower which leads to greater magical potential as already established. Such humans would not be hindered or crushed by demons until a sufficiently more dangerous demon doesn't arrive on scene. We are on the other hand repeatedly shown how regular humans who lack willpower meeting gruesome and humiliating ends at hands of demons.
5) Not every demon is a unintelligent animalistic beast. Many demons even if weak are smart and crafty bastards who run long cons and ruses in disguises or convoluted plans to prey on humans. Which can be anything from messing up someone's personal/social life, driving them insane, or just plain making a fool of them and manipulating them into various humiliating and dangerous situation. They like pushing humans into negative emotions because it is entertaining and negative energies are consumed by them for power. Thus not every smart demons does not unleash their full power upon humans otherwise how will they hoodwink, swindle, decieve etc humans.


Low Tier Sparda Physiology
Our cast of main heroes has already shrugged of the most potent poisons in form of higher order demonic energy from Demon World Nexus and Demon Lords, demon energy being corruptive, poisonous and acidic in it's very nature. Low tier fodder demons with material poisons don't compare. This should be resisted by default, any damaged incurred in game is gameplay not lore. The one notable non-game example of Spardas no resisting acid/poison was this, but it ignores that as usual Dante is holding back and plays along for fight, and the very same demon tried to absorb and digest Dante within himself and failed miserably, proving his nigh-immunity to such afflictions.
The resistance should be reinstated.


High Tier Sparda Physiology
This was removed for completely wrong reason. It's pretty much presented in the anime that Dante allowed himself to be possessed by the amulet for sake of getting a luck advantage, otherwise he wasn't affected. It's a no-name magic trinket from a no name fodder demon running gambling cons to rob victims of their soul. If greater beings like Beastheads or Demon Kings cannot possess or dictate fate of Spardas, why are we pretending that this thing can?
This resistance should likewise be reinstated.

 
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I objectively agree over the canonicity part here.

To be precise, there are limitations to certain media soo it can't be represented in a consistent manner doesn't mean it just ceases to exist whatsoever. That's a dumb proposal.
 
I agree.
However, I do want to say that Subjective Reality for all humans with willpower seems quite far-fetched since Credo at that point had gone through the ascension ceremony and was imbued with demonic energy.

Other than that, everything makes perfect sense to me.
 
Subjective Reality, Reactive Evolution, Accelerated Development,

I disagree with humans having this. The examples you showed us are from demons or humans that have been transformed into demons, not humans.

Otherwise thread is good. Also should take the tier 0 out of the thread, people will think you are being serious with it.
 
However, I do want to say that Subjective Reality for all humans with willpower seems quite far-fetched since Credo at that point had gone through the ascension ceremony and was imbued with demonic energy.
It exists for everyone. Even Arkham, Sanctus, Agnus etc assume forms and powers based on their fundamental desire and hearts. Not to mention demons.
Right now it exists only as potential. We are only setting precedent and possibilities. In later CRTs individual characters will be indexed based on their potential and feats. Not a blanket bestowal of everything.
I disagree with humans having this. The examples you showed us are from demons or humans that have been transformed into demons, not humans.
Humans who were weak or non-resilient before but later become stronger and more resilient will be textbook examples of these.
For example Grue's first encounter with demons made him go into trance blanked out state standing up because he couldn't handle the presence of demons and needed to protect his sanity. Later when he is desperate to earn money to treat Jessica he withstands the presence of much deadlier demons who were making humans literally kill themselves and each other, he even tried fighting Gilver but died. That's a major improvement in his mental fortitude.

We are already being specific with with awarding all of this on feat to feat basis. So I don't see any reason to pussyfoot around this topic.
 
This is great. I was totally against all these removals. In fact, removing feats from the novel is such nonsense.

With Humanity, it's a bit controversial that it applies to EVERYONE, but it makes sense. Honestly, the fact that Lady is a descendant of Sparda's sacrifice has always been more of a supporting evidence for me than a main one.

Agree with everything.
Except for one thing I'm not entirely sure about.


Isn't this part interpreted differently? I don't know how to explain it because of the language barrier, but first, using a translator, I got the translation "heartbreaking" for the word Soul-Crushing. In the English version, the word "heart" is used in this word, but in my country, the equivalent of this adjective is the word "soul", but they have the same meaning (metaphorical). But in any case, Soul-Crushing, as I understand it, may not be a literal crushing of the soul, but simply an adjective, which means that it is very, very exciting/scaring.

Very ambiguous. Maybe compare it with the Japanese translation?

Although of course, the fact that the mind is also noted here at the same time may indicate that this is not a metaphor, but a direct metaphysical meaning.
 
With Humanity, it's a bit controversial that it applies to EVERYONE
Everyone has potential, that doesn't mean everyone does achieve said potential. In real life or fiction. I have made that clear.
Isn't this part interpreted differently? I don't know how to explain it because of the language barrier, but first, using a translator, I got the translation "heartbreaking" for the word Soul-Crushing. In the English version, the word "heart" is used in this word, but in my country, the equivalent of this adjective is the word "soul", but they have the same meaning (metaphorical). But in any case, Soul-Crushing, as I understand it, may not be a literal crushing of the soul, but simply an adjective, which means that it is very, very exciting/scaring.
it's all same in DMC. Soul is sum total of entire metaphysical exitance of an individual.
 
Everyone has potential, that doesn't mean everyone does achieve said potential. In real life or fiction. I have made that clear.
Oh, so that's how it is. That makes sense, I agree. Will that somehow extend to Niko to justify her killing demons?

it's all same in DMC. Soul is sum total of entire metaphysical exitance of an individual.
I mean, it could just be a metaphor, meaning that the atmosphere is very scary and desperate. Not that the atmosphere is capable of destroying the soul. Possibly. That's why I want to see the Japanese original.
 
Will that somehow extend to Niko to justify her killing demons?
That's just plot armour atp. Rule of cool.
I mean, it could just be a metaphor, meaning that the atmosphere is very scary and desperate. Not that the atmosphere is capable of destroying the soul. Possibly. That's why I want to see the Japanese original.
which image exactly?
 
which image exactly?
Soul-Crushing.
QnTTiew.png
 
I mean, it could just be a metaphor, meaning that the atmosphere is very scary and desperate. Not that the atmosphere is capable of destroying the soul. Possibly. That's why I want to see the Japanese original.
You remember how Dante and cos were venturing into the nexus of Demon World where each one of them were being overwhelmed by increasing concentration of Demonic Energy as the more they walk towards it?

It seems pretty fair reasoning, especially considering the nature of Demonic Energy soo I don't see any problem regardless what that scan depicts it to be. It's a matter of common sense either way.
 
It exists for everyone. Even Arkham, Sanctus, Agnus etc assume forms and powers based on their fundamental desire and hearts. Not to mention demons.
Right now it exists only as potential. We are only setting precedent and possibilities. In later CRTs individual characters will be indexed based on their potential and feats. Not a blanket bestowal of everything.
Yes, after obtaining demonic power, never prior to that.
Humans who were weak or non-resilient before but later become stronger and more resilient will be textbook examples of these.
For example Grue's first encounter with demons made him go into trance blanked out state standing up because he couldn't handle the presence of demons and needed to protect his sanity. Later when he is desperate to earn money to treat Jessica he withstands the presence of much deadlier demons who were making humans literally kill themselves and each other, he even tried fighting Gilver but died. That's a major improvement in his mental fortitude.
That is part of the whole "supernatural willpower" yes, not something that can be done over and over like how RE/AD works or how you are suggesting.

In this case Grue froze in place upon the sight of demons but then fell from whatever he was hiding and the pain of the fall made him snap out of it if even for a moment, after that he was about to black out but "he willed himself to stay conscious". He survived just a minute longer because of the pain and the sheer will to do so, not because he grew more resistant to the presence of demons or anything like that.

We are already being specific with with awarding all of this on feat to feat basis. So I don't see any reason to pussyfoot around this topic.
My problem is that you are grating feats/powers that come from demonic energy to humanity's whole potential thing which has never even been hinted at.

Will Dante be promoted to EG in combat?
It should be EG in all aspects for Dante but people try to twist the scan to mean other things.
 
Yes, after obtaining demonic power, never prior to that.
That is part of the whole "supernatural willpower" yes, not something that can be done over and over like how RE/AD works or how you are suggesting.

In this case Grue froze in place upon the sight of demons but then fell from whatever he was hiding and the pain of the fall made him snap out of it if even for a moment, after that he was about to black out but "he willed himself to stay conscious". He survived just a minute longer because of the pain and the sheer will to do so, not because he grew more resistant to the presence of demons or anything like that.

My problem is that you are grating feats/powers that come from demonic energy to humanity's whole potential thing which has never even been hinted at.
Bro it's literally called magic. Doesn't have to be demonic.
But i'll limit it to supernatural willpower and basic supernatural resistance for now. But mark my words Capcom will just introduce humans with magic who won't be that different from demons.
 
Not really buying Subjective Reality, Reactive Evolution, and Accelerated Development since nothing about the text with mundus is them warping reality or just evolving on the situation, it's just them tapping into a part of humanity to give them some power, I'd just chalk it up to being some empowerment.

The last clip for the acid resistance isn't working btw.

Everything else looks fine.
 
Not really buying Subjective Reality, Reactive Evolution, and Accelerated Development since nothing about the text with mundus is them warping reality or just evolving on the situation
Subjective Reality isn't about warping reality in context. It's about shaping and evolving your demonic form and powers according to your self-perspective. For example how Credo has angelic form because he genuinely believes he is righteous and his powers represent him being "sword and shield" of Order. Other humans are just as much examples of this who gain demonic power, just in opposite sense since rest of human examples are evil.
As for the RE/AD, humanity amps are rampant throughout every game for every major hero character. Getting power ups and upgrades in key moments to overcome challenges is the theme of the entire series and part of every characters story beats. I already gave examples, anything else I might have to just write story summaries for each character explaining the power ups. Besides supernatural willpower and emotion is based power ups is a thing on wiki. OPM characters have it. We also do.
I am not relying on single scan here to assert something, Humanity boost was on the deck since long time for upgrades even without the scan, but getting word to word official explanation of mechanic does solidify the evidence rather than just explaining based on general pattern.
The last clip for the acid resistance isn't working btw.
Mister gave the new link, I'll change it.
 
You’re gonna need a lot of scans that explicitly describes it like that if you want to push for subjective reality, because I’m not seeing it just from that explanation alone.
 
You’re gonna need a lot of scans that explicitly describes it like that if you want to push for subjective reality, because I’m not seeing it just from that explanation alone.
Discussed offsite, postposing the Subjective Reality stuff for now. Guessing rest of stuff is ok after my explanation?
Found some more supernatural willpower support. Adding to OP, the supernatural weaponry part.
 
Not really buying Subjective Reality, Reactive Evolution, and Accelerated Development since nothing about the text with mundus is them warping reality or just evolving on the situation, it's just them tapping into a part of humanity to give them some power, I'd just chalk it up to being some empowerment.
Not to mention said feats come from humans who have demonic power for x or y reasons, not because they are humans.
 
Anyway Gilver already say he is gonna postpone the subjetive reality for humans for now

Lets no derail this thread further, so staff read the revision

Only one more and we are done, lets keep up the focus which is recovering the lost haxs guys!
 
Not really buying Subjective Reality, Reactive Evolution, and Accelerated Development since nothing about the text with mundus is them warping reality or just evolving on the situation, it's just them tapping into a part of humanity to give them some power, I'd just chalk it up to being some empowerment.

The last clip for the acid resistance isn't working btw.

Everything else looks fine.
Same view as Glass
 
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