-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
DmC: Devil May Cry scaling and abilities addition.
- Thread starter Nanashi
- Start date
- Status
- 8,809
- 2,868
This needs Jesús staff
Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,931
- 17,843
like all devil may cry threads
- 15,950
- 12,360
I have answered the call... "sees it's DMC Reboot" Sorry but it's a sin to speak of this game.
To be real though, I agree with Limbo being another universe and 3-A Mundus when connected to the Hell Gate. The ability additions seem fine as well.
To be real though, I agree with Limbo being another universe and 3-A Mundus when connected to the Hell Gate. The ability additions seem fine as well.
- 16,176
- 12,711
Twisting a few city blocks isn't exactly the same as warping an entire universe.
The fact that he needs external help for it (and creating a gate doesn't inherently mean you scale to what it does, especially when "presumably" is being tossed around and we don't know how much time it would take) kind of crushes any scaling to physicals.
I would like scans here.
II would like scans of this too, in particular him drawing power. Taking power from something doesn't mean taking all of it which is quite significant here.
This may be because I don't know the story but why is this relevant?
Sure
Sure, just list it as minor since it doesn't seem they can erase other people's memories.
Second scan is missing and the third is the same as the first but even from that one seems ok.
I think it's just AP + NPI, it's not soul manip to destroy an astral projection in the same way it's not soul manip to just beat up a ghost until it dies. And I don't see why that would scale to destroying a demon's physical body.
- 6,593
- 3,431
That's because DmC still doesn’t have an accepted Universal Energy System, although it has almost all the feats that points to, it needs a proper blog or an explanation on the verse page
Still, we can just accept the scaling and apply once the energy justification is done
- 242
- 103
- Thread starter
- #49
@Armorchompy , I'm sorry to say that I don't have the scans, I just tried to gather the maximun amount of info on the verse I could basing myself in the infos the game, hq and the wiki(thanks to @Tony_di_bugalu I ain't trusting the DMC wikis anymore) give us. Gotta say that I screwed up with some assumptions there, but it was just me trying to give DmC some love(sorry for this, by the by). But, anyway, 3-A Mundus (while connected) with the Hell Gate stills a thing, without the Hellgate he should be comparable to a regular Dante.
Now, continuing my point
Well, answering this part from your reply. It's complicated giving the scans here, but during the whole game Mundus is able to control the whole universe from Limbo, from the human dimension, without even getting out from his towe. He can warp/distort Limbo's reality in ways to slow down Dante and as we can see here, Vergil (a guy who had investigated everything about Mundus, with years of collected info about Mundus and the Limbo) states that Mundus draws his power from the Hell Gate(Btw, if the link actually sends you to another point of the video the time is 1:43:43). And, speaking of the devil, in this moment of the game(3:45) we clearly see that when Vergil shuts down the Hell Gate, Mundus is no longer able to maintain Limbo separated from the human world, it's a proof that he, indeed, was keeping a whole universe separatd from the another, which makes him 3-A or maybe High 3-A at best. Having all these things in mind, I guess it's really safe to assume that DmC has an Universal Energy System, but just Mundus would scale to this.
Now, continuing my point
Vergil basically had to use a colission between two dimensions to create a black hole in order to defeat the Hell Prison. I think these ones would be more useful as more clarifications for Vergil's BFR hax, I believe.
They use the term "astral body" in order to refer to her soul body/form. If her astral/soul form was gone when that demon got her, she would just die since when psychics get separated from their bodies for a long period of time, their souls dissapear(Vergil states this here). Thinking with some logic you can come to the conclusion that if that demon that was about to kill her right at the start of the HQ actually did it, she would die. So, indeed, it is a form of soul manipulation instead of something related to AP + NPI. To finish all this, we can see that Vergil can touch her in the astral form, when he saves her from the demon (the scan is already there) and when he just slaps the bitch right on the face. @GilverTheProtoAngelo gave most of the reasonings for this in a previous reply.
- 6,135
- 4,213
Killing souls is soul manipulation, not just npi. DDM has also clarified this on occasions.
We don't need a official blog for UES, we have passed similar CRTs before UES was formalized. Current evidence is enough for that.
We don't need a official blog for UES, we have passed similar CRTs before UES was formalized. Current evidence is enough for that.
- 16,176
- 12,711
So hold on, are you saying 3-A scales to Dante & Vergil (and retroactively back to base Mundus) or that it's just exclusive to this amped version of Mundus?
No? Destroying a ghost or astral projection via AP isn't soul manipulation, why wouldn't somebody that has just NPI be able to do that? It's Soul Manipulation if you kill them while they're in the body or in any other way that isn't just simply attacking them while they're "exposed".
- 16,176
- 12,711
Paging @DarkDragonMedeus on the topic of this to see if this is really his opinion or it's just being misrepresented, is killing ghosts/astral selves by attacking them via NPI Soul Manipulation in your opinion? Because it really doesn't align with what I perceived as site standards
- 31,650
- 34,711
Non-physical reaction is an extremely general ability and also has wide varieties and sub levels. But simply being able to see ghosts who were meant to be invisible to regular humans or hear ghosts meant to be silent to them would also technically count as limited NPI if you still can't quite touch ghosts; though touching ghosts is a better version.
As for the ability to harm and kill ghosts, that is NPI, but it also could technically count as extremely limited levels of soul manipulation. Given that ghosts are by definition wondering souls that have no body, destroying a ghost is the basic definition of soul destruction. However, it should not be assumed as anything beyond the ability to destroy a soul that lacks a body. Just because people can kill ghosts doesn't mean it's assumed they have the ability to rip someone's soul and destroy it from there thus negating durability in the process. It's also not assumed they have the ability to bypass Low-Godly regeneration by default, unless that's how their regeneration works is that they act as a ghost for temporary periods when their body gets destroyed and need time to regenerate it. And it is a common that when a character dies, their soul gets teleported to a far away place such as an afterlife; which characters with limited soul destruction aren't assumed to reach there just because they can kill ghosts or incorporeals normally.
But all things considered, killing ghosts is both NPI and limited levels of soul destruction, but all aforementioned limitations should still be noted and/or acknowledged unless there are other reasons such as statements and/or demonstrations that they could do those other things.
As for the ability to harm and kill ghosts, that is NPI, but it also could technically count as extremely limited levels of soul manipulation. Given that ghosts are by definition wondering souls that have no body, destroying a ghost is the basic definition of soul destruction. However, it should not be assumed as anything beyond the ability to destroy a soul that lacks a body. Just because people can kill ghosts doesn't mean it's assumed they have the ability to rip someone's soul and destroy it from there thus negating durability in the process. It's also not assumed they have the ability to bypass Low-Godly regeneration by default, unless that's how their regeneration works is that they act as a ghost for temporary periods when their body gets destroyed and need time to regenerate it. And it is a common that when a character dies, their soul gets teleported to a far away place such as an afterlife; which characters with limited soul destruction aren't assumed to reach there just because they can kill ghosts or incorporeals normally.
But all things considered, killing ghosts is both NPI and limited levels of soul destruction, but all aforementioned limitations should still be noted and/or acknowledged unless there are other reasons such as statements and/or demonstrations that they could do those other things.
- 16,176
- 12,711
It is effectively soul destruction but I don't really think it should be actually listed as Soul Manip, it's like Energy Projection technically being Energy Manip but not being listed as that, IMO
- 31,650
- 34,711
It's okay to set it up in which it redirects to soul manipulation as we don't have a soul destruction page. But it's worded as soul destruction. Would look something like this.
limited Soul Destruction (Can kill ghosts)
limited Soul Destruction (Can kill ghosts)
- 16,176
- 12,711
But that's just a consequence of NPI, everyone with the ability to attack ghosts could do it, it's not an actual ability separate of that.
- 8,809
- 2,868
Exclusive to Mundas amped with the Hell Gate
- 16,008
- 8,262
For the AP scaling, I guess what Tony's suggested seems fine.
For the powers:
If Memories erased are limited to the users, it would just limited Memory Manipulationlike Armorchompy said.
Hitting/destroying the souls outside the body but having no other proof of soul manipulation is just non-physical interaction.
I guess the rest seems fine.
For the powers:
If Memories erased are limited to the users, it would just limited Memory Manipulationlike Armorchompy said.
Hitting/destroying the souls outside the body but having no other proof of soul manipulation is just non-physical interaction.
I guess the rest seems fine.
- 16,176
- 12,711
Alright I don't think it's fully iron solid but I'll let it slide if it's not a verse-wide thing.
- 242
- 103
- Thread starter
- #60
Not actually, Sparda erased the memories of his children. In the comic is implied that Vergil erased not only his memories about Kat(yes, they fell in love), but Kat memories too, so it's not that limited. Now for the soul manipulation the unique argument I have about this is the fact that Dante can free lost souls, human souls trapped in Limbo.
- 16,176
- 12,711
If they can erase other people's too that's fine, do explain it on vergil and dante's files though.
As for soul manip, how does that work
As for soul manip, how does that work
- 242
- 103
- Thread starter
- #62
The soul manipulation would be more limited to soul destruction, not a manipulation properly said. Since they can free human souls from Limbo, they kill those souls in order to free them from Limbo's suffering. This is kinda self-explanatory when you actually see it, check this:
- 8,809
- 2,868
Pretty sure most of us agreed it would only be a possibly 3A because of that
- 16,008
- 8,262
I guess memory manipulation is fine.
Non-physical Interaction could be probably still be the best choice.
- 16,176
- 12,711
possibly 3-A is fine then, for the rest i agree with Elizhaa
- 242
- 103
- Thread starter
- #68
I see, going to add the things now, thanks.
- 242
- 103
- Thread starter
- #70
Btw, do you guys think the reasoning Mundus' 3-A is fine now? I'd like some feedback from you just to be sure
@Armorchompy @Lightning_XXI @Tony_di_bugalu
@Armorchompy @Lightning_XXI @Tony_di_bugalu
- 8,809
- 2,868
Sounds good to me
- 16,176
- 12,711
yeah, possibly 3-A with the gate is fine
- Status
){kind=link}