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Thoughts? I agree with the outcome.
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Discussion about a character versus.
- Thread starter SuperSeaLight
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #3
Which limits? Can you show them?
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Well for starters the omnipotence statements are meaningless. Those twins who Lucifer beat were called omnipotent as well. Meaning we can’t take the omnipotent statements in these stories seriously.
The Presence was also matched by the Great Darkness, chopped up by Lucifer wielding the Sword of Eden, was stated to be unable to destroy blight, etc.
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the GEB was NEVER, NOT ONCE, stated to be the equal to the Presence. It was only stated as the absence of Gods Light, it’s shadow partner
It makes one wonder if people actually read the scan the hands holding here are symbolic showing light and dark, good and evil, yin an yang, balance each other out, Which is showed by this scan as well
And these principles where set there by none other than you guessed it the presence as amenadiel tells us.
"the presence cant beat blight" bro you serious?
Seriously people don't read the comic so they have to make wierd headcanon.
Phantom stranger who has fought and defeated blight when he was at his strongest (forever Evil) directly says if the Presence wants he can basically one shot and defeat blight with a word but he allows blight to exist.
The only reason the Presence didn't outright defeated Blight was because it was part of the Presence's plan, “there are plans within plans that you cannot fathom. A greater good hidden in the apparent evil” so blight was a part of the Presence and that's why never defeated blight
And blight in justice league dark was literally defeated by chris who had became the angel of redemption — an aspect of the presence
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Ok first of all, the first scan you posted from Swamp Thing literally claims that they’re “locked in endless fight.” If the Presence was more powerful than the Great Darkness this obviously wouldn’t be possible.the GEB was NEVER, NOT ONCE, stated to be the equal to the Presence. It was only stated as the absence of Gods Light, it’s shadow partner
It makes one wonder if people actually read the scan the hands holding here are symbolic showing light and dark, good and evil, yin an yang, balance each other out, Which is showed by this scan as well
And these principles where set there by none other than you guessed it the presence as amenadiel tells us.
"the presence cant beat blight" bro you serious?
Seriously people don't read the comic so they have to make wierd headcanon.
Phantom stranger who has fought and defeated blight when he was at his strongest (forever Evil) directly says if the Presence wants he can basically one shot and defeat blight with a word but he allows blight to exist.
The only reason the Presence didn't outright defeated Blight was because it was part of the Presence's plan, “there are plans within plans that you cannot fathom. A greater good hidden in the apparent evil” so blight was a part of the Presence and that's why never defeated blight
And blight in justice league dark was literally defeated by chris who had became the angel of redemption — an aspect of the presence
Second, the third scan you posted states that the Great Darkness and the Presence were “at war” and then depicts them arm wrestling in a matched position. Implying that they’re matching one another’s strength. Once again if he was this “omnipotent entity” who’s more powerful than the Great Darkness then he wouldn’t be locked in some endless fight with it.
Third, I didn’t state the Presence “can’t beat Blight” I stated that he can’t destroy Blight, as in he can’t kill him. And your scan does not state the Presence can one shot Blight. The Phantom Stranger only claims that the Presence can “drive all evil out of the world with a word.” Which is not the same as saying the Presence can kill him.
Lastly, the Presence having a plan for the Phantom Stranger to work with Blight so the Phantom Stranger could grow as an individual, literally doesn’t mean anything power wise. He is still unable to kill Blight and can only deal with him by driving him back into the collective unconscious, which is a clear limitation for a self proclaimed “omnipotent entity.”
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"I didn’t state the Presence can’t beat Blight I stated that he can’t destroy Blight, as in he can’t kill him." why would the presence have any reason to "kill" Blight. the reason he didnt want to kill him is because he has seen good in blight.
about GEB
The reason why i brought him up is because a lot of people like to wank the Upside Down Man due to him infiltrating and infecting the Great Darkness/Great Evil Beast (the source of Dark Multiverse Magic)
to create the Other Place
What they don’t consider is that the Great Evil Beast “attacked” Heaven in Swamp Thing Volume 2 #50, written by Alan Moore in July 1986, four months after Crisis on Infinite Earths ended in March 1986, leaving only 5 universes in the Multiverse, making the threat of GEB less than what it was cracked up to be.
The One Above All and The One Below All.
The One Above All is the God of the Marvel Omniverse, and simply because TOBA is presented as the antithesis, everyone takes it to mean it’s the equal of TOAA.
Despite the fact that it needed 10 billion years to destroy a single Multiverse.
That’s not even Anti-Monitor level. He wiped the infinite Multiverse instantaneously, leaving only 5 universes
Regardless, The Upside Down Man infected the GBE, which is only a FRACTION of Lucifer
about GEB
The reason why i brought him up is because a lot of people like to wank the Upside Down Man due to him infiltrating and infecting the Great Darkness/Great Evil Beast (the source of Dark Multiverse Magic)
to create the Other Place
What they don’t consider is that the Great Evil Beast “attacked” Heaven in Swamp Thing Volume 2 #50, written by Alan Moore in July 1986, four months after Crisis on Infinite Earths ended in March 1986, leaving only 5 universes in the Multiverse, making the threat of GEB less than what it was cracked up to be.
The One Above All and The One Below All.
The One Above All is the God of the Marvel Omniverse, and simply because TOBA is presented as the antithesis, everyone takes it to mean it’s the equal of TOAA.
Despite the fact that it needed 10 billion years to destroy a single Multiverse.
That’s not even Anti-Monitor level. He wiped the infinite Multiverse instantaneously, leaving only 5 universes
Regardless, The Upside Down Man infected the GBE, which is only a FRACTION of Lucifer
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No where is it supported in your scans that the Presence “didn’t want to kill Blight because he’s seen good him.”
What does how many universes existed during this time have to do with anything? As far as I’m aware the Great Darkness wasn’t trying to directly destroy the universes in DC. Instead it was trying to confront the Presence. And the point I made was that the Presence being locked in endless fight with the Great Darkness proves the Presence isn’t superior to it. Which you still haven’t actually addressed.
Also there’s multiple problems with the Great Darkness being Lucifer.
1. It’s stated the Great Darkness slept in the darkness beyond hell. Which contradicts Lucifer who lived in hell.
2. The Great Darkness is explicitly called no fallen angel of Leviathan. In Christianity the Leviathan is often viewed as a symbol for Gods power of creation or an embodiment of chaos. Meaning the Leviathan is essentially distinguished from a being like Lucifer who is a fallen angel of Gods power and chaos.
3. It contradicts the power scaling as we’d be suggesting that Lucifer is more powerful than the Presence due to the Great Darkness being an aspect of him.
4. The hand isn’t even mentioned to be the Great Darkness outside of that author statement. Making this whole Great Darkness connection kind of flimsy as an author statement is almost meaningless unless it’s backed by the original story.
All in all, there’s way too many contradictions for the Great Darkness to be Lucifer. And even if it was directly mentioned that the Great Darkness is Lucifer, it would be a massive retcon. And that retconned version of the Great Darkness wouldn’t scale to the pre retconned version that matched the Presence. Essentially leaving us with a featless Great Darkness that Lucifer has a connection with.
What does how many universes existed during this time have to do with anything? As far as I’m aware the Great Darkness wasn’t trying to directly destroy the universes in DC. Instead it was trying to confront the Presence. And the point I made was that the Presence being locked in endless fight with the Great Darkness proves the Presence isn’t superior to it. Which you still haven’t actually addressed.
Also there’s multiple problems with the Great Darkness being Lucifer.
1. It’s stated the Great Darkness slept in the darkness beyond hell. Which contradicts Lucifer who lived in hell.
2. The Great Darkness is explicitly called no fallen angel of Leviathan. In Christianity the Leviathan is often viewed as a symbol for Gods power of creation or an embodiment of chaos. Meaning the Leviathan is essentially distinguished from a being like Lucifer who is a fallen angel of Gods power and chaos.
3. It contradicts the power scaling as we’d be suggesting that Lucifer is more powerful than the Presence due to the Great Darkness being an aspect of him.
4. The hand isn’t even mentioned to be the Great Darkness outside of that author statement. Making this whole Great Darkness connection kind of flimsy as an author statement is almost meaningless unless it’s backed by the original story.
All in all, there’s way too many contradictions for the Great Darkness to be Lucifer. And even if it was directly mentioned that the Great Darkness is Lucifer, it would be a massive retcon. And that retconned version of the Great Darkness wouldn’t scale to the pre retconned version that matched the Presence. Essentially leaving us with a featless Great Darkness that Lucifer has a connection with.
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