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Digimon World Dawn/Dusk revisions

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Amelia_Lonelyheart

Amelia_Lonelyheart

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Dragonmasterxyz and TheRadicalMrR brought this to my attention. Feats that I initially deemed as outliers that may be valid now with the Cyber Sleuth stats being accepted. Theirs also other stuff I completely forgot about such as...

Koh and Sayos Reality Warping Resistance
https://youtu.be/8T-wz0P6Z4I?t=420


Feat starts around 6:35 I'll quote the important piece of dialogue.

"heheheh, so this is digivolution. Magnificent, I never knew the Ultimate digivolution was amazing. Now prepare for the ultimate Chrono DSR capable of destroying the digital world! Heheh, even you wont be able to defend yourself. Chrono DSR degenerate and destroys all data in the digital world. The next blow will erase your existence from the Digital World...

But don't worry. Soon all the real beings on this server will share your fate"

...only for Koh (or Sayo in Dusk) to not get wiped out by the attack at all. In fact, he tanks two direct universe busting shots point blank with nothing more than a daze, which he promptly gets out of. I think this is a pretty clear "Resistance to Reality Warping" feat. Not sure if it could "scale" to his party so I'll let others decide.

Upgrades
This is the meat of the post and why I was asked to write this. Let us begin!

Chronomon Scaling
In the "Legendary Tamer" battle, Koh or Sayo battle Kogure commanding a Chronomon Holy Mode. Chronomon Holy Mode is the digivolution of Chronomon Destroy Mode, who was built to destroy Yggdrasil and rewrite the Digital World. I can't seem to find a source on this claim, but Wikimon and DigimonWikia both state it.

http://digimon.wikia.com/wiki/ChronoCore

http://wikimon.net/Chrono_Core

Additionally, Chronomon is above Susanoomo, as Susanoomon digivolves into Chronomon.

Last point for the Chronomon part. In Digimon: Super XROS Wars, the character of that game, Taiki Kudo also fights Kogure, now commanding a Chronomon HM, Ebonwumo and...Antylamon for some reason. This is important because Kogure is only the "bronze" tamer, and Koh is the "silver" tamer (And Sayo is the "gold" tamer)

Kogure Battle

Koh Battle

Sayo Battle

Gaia Origin Scaling
One of the final battles in Digimon World: Dawn is no other than Sealed Zeed himself. The battle can be seen here.

https://youtu.be/4Br8v8gD7q0?t=925

The battle starts at 15:42. Right before the battle theirs some interesting dialogue.

ZeedMillenniummo: It was very interesting. Now it me next...

Alphamo: Then its...

Omegamo: Us...

Apocalymo: You haven't even gone through half...

Susaoomo: However, I am confident that you will manage to get through everyone.

Alphamo: ZeedMillenniummon...

Omegamo: Give everything you got..

ZeedMillenniummo: I know...Here goes...

He then fights and defeats Alphamon and Omegamon, who are apparently stronger than Zeed. Later on in the gauntlet, he defeats Beelzemo Blast Mode and Dukemon/Gallantmo Crimson Mode who are even stronger than Alphamon and Omegamon

I originally didn't put this on the profile as it seemed like a outlier, however as we see sometime later, Sayo (who is Koh's equal) is perfectly capable of fighting Multiversal+ characters (Like the SGDL Empowered Monzaemo) during the end game of Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth.

So with all of that, I believe his stats would be changed too.

Attack Potency: At least Universe level+ to Multi-Universe level (Defeated Chronomo, who was stated to be able to destroy the Digital World. Later defeated and commanded the power of Chronomon Holy Mode, who is vastly superior to Chronomon and Susanoomo, both of which are stated to be able to destroy and recreate universe), possibly Multiverse level+ (Defeated Alphamo and Omegamo in single combat, both of which were stronger than ZeedMillenniummo, who was going all out. Later defeated Dukemon Crimson Mode, who was vastly superior than even them. Should be comparable to Sayo, who defeated Mirei's Monzaemo, who was empowered by the power of all Seven Great Demon Lords, who exist as multiversal constants)

Speed would probably remain the same, though maybe with a "possibly MFTL+" scaling off of Sayo.

Everyone else this would scale too
It wouldn't scale to a lot of characters, but still a few.

Sayo, she's Koh's equal.

Members of Gaia Origin such as Susanoomo and Apocalymo and that's really it. There are other members of course, but they all scale off of 2-A feats so it be redundant to put on there profiles. The Low 2-C to 2-C stuff would probably scale to the Platinum Tamer Minomo and Kuramo as well though.

If I didn't explain everything, glanced over something or messed anything up, please let me know so I can correct it.

Edit: Corrected which form of Zeed they scale off of.
 
You probably shoul let them know this is Sealed Zeed. Anyway of course I agree with this.
 
Ah yeah, I forgot we have a distinction between sealed Zeed and unsealed Zeed now. Will fix.
 
I'm sold on the Chronomon feats, but the Gaia Origin scaling feats are a bit strange, since Zeed's Sealed Form is still supposed to be stronger than the entirety of the RKs combined (not to mention the Sovereigns and Great Angels). But as long as it's held exclusively to Koh and Sayo, I suppose it'll be fine. Also, more evidence for 2-A RKs.
 
I'll fully ambit that the Gaia Origin stuff is a bit odd too, since it implies this worlds Leopardmon is stronger than Zeed. That's why I put it at "possibly 2-A" in the OP.

Anyway, I don't see an issue with scaling it to other members of Gaia Origin and Koh/Sayo, but obviously no one else.
 
Ok so 3 discussion moderators agree and 1 Admin can we make the upgrade, if not I might just highlight it OVO
 
Anyway I dunno if we should do the upgrades yet. It is up to Reppu since he's the higher up here.
 
Seems legit, I remember playing Dawn and Dusk, good times. It was a lot better than DS that's for sure :p

Yeah, I think his (Koh, as well as Sayo) team should also be resistant to Reality Warping as well, as they were the ones fighting ExoGrimmon and I'm sure he would have used Chrono DSR again, as it's his main attack while fighting him.
 
Additionally, GallantKnight X linked me to a fantastic general Digimon Respect thread earlier and it seemed to imply that the Dawn/Dusk demon lords scale to the Cyber Sleuth demon lords, since an offsite person told me that the Zeed scaling is probably invalid.

Regardless, apparently the Cyber Sleuth stuff happens in a very short timeframe after Dawn/Dusk and theirs no way in hell that Sayo got infinity^Infinitely stronger in that timespan so I think Koh would scale.
 
I'm not really sure on who else would get scaled other than Koh at this point to be honest. I feel like if ExoGrimmon had Multiversal powers, then destroying the DW wouldn't seem very impressive to him but I dunno. Maybe we can scale post-game bosses (Gaia Origin, Platinum Minomon/Kuramon, Platinum Imperialdramon PM, Dusk era SGDLs) to them? I'm honestly not sure..
 
Wouldn't that make a huge inconsistent power scale if the Platinum Exam Digimon where higher than ExoGrimmon? Meaning every Platinum Tamer would be 2-A for beating them. Gaia Origin would make sense since they didn't care much about DIGITALCity until the whole Grimmon incident, not to mention they're all OP Mega Level Digimon.
 
That's a good point, maybe non-post game Digimon could scale like this?

"At least Universe level (ExoGrimmmon's weaker form had the power to destroy the entirety of the Digital World Server, which is an entire Universe), to Universe level+ (Should be in the same league as Chronomon), possibly Multiverse level+ (Somewhat comparable to Sayo, who is capable of fighting Cyber Sleuth era Demon Lord empowered Monzaeomon)
 
Not to mention ZeedMilleniummon in Dawn/Dusk seems no where near the power of the one in the Digimon Lore, as it showed no power coming close to 2-A. He was a being bent on destroying everything, yet the one here didn't seem malicious or violent at all, even getting along with the other Gaia Origin members.

Maybe Dawn/Dusk and Cyber Sleuth should be treated separately, as this would make many inconsistences and contradictions trying to scale them with each other.
 
The problem here is Sayo. as she appeared in Cyber Sleuth meaning the two worlds have a connection through Sayo and Mirei. I however believe we should only scale Koh since he is seen a Sayo's equal.
 
Yeah, not scaling Cyber Sleuth feats to Dawn/Dusk characters is probably for the best. Maybe we could scale Koh to "Potentially as high as 2-A" and scale him to no one else.

Anyway, I was looking through the Digimon World Dusk Digi-Gallery for feats and I found two ones that we might be able to scale from.

From Lucemon CM

"An Ultimate demon Digimon which possesses both a good and a bad side. It's the form of the fallen angel, Lucemon. It's plotting to destroy this world once and rebuild it."

From Imperialdramon PM

"A legendary Digimon that is the Imperialdramon's fighter mode digivolved using Omnimon's power. This is its final form, and it is said to have once saved the Digital World from destruction."

From Meteormon

"A meteor type Gotsumon's Ultimate form which acquired meteor data. It looks a lot like a Gotsumon, but its power is unknown. It can manipulate the power of the universe."

From Susanoomon

"A legendary Digimon said to have been born from the collection of all spirits in existence. It is a powerful Digimon said to be able to shake the heavens and earth."

Lucemon's description seems to confirm Tier 2 Dawn/Dusk era Demon Lords, which helps support Chronomon scaling.
 
I believe Sayo should be the only one scaled in Cyber Sleuth.

Even if Dawn/Dusk is in the same Universe as Cyber Sleuth if Koh was never mentioned or shown to be in a comparable league to Sayo at that time, then we can't assume he's 2-A, as even back in Dusk, Sayo always beat Koh in every battle they had.
 
^Well it all depends on the game you had,if you had Dawn I believe Koh would have won the matches
 
Yes however it is implied that the fights were very close. I think "possibly 2-A" is fine. But he'll at least be 2-C.
 
I'll ambit I always thought the 2-A scaling would be a bit of a stretch to say the least, which is why I'm not surprised its probably not gonna get accepted.

I feel that the Low 2-C/2-C feats are genuine however. No only do we get multiple feats that suggest it but also in-game statements that also support it.

Perhaps we can tag a "possibly much higher" and describe that he may or may not be comparable to Cyber Sleuth Sayo?
 
@RadicalMrR

Yeah, I know, but since Sayo is the only one mentioned in Cyber Sleuth and there are multiple realities in the Digimon Multiverse, this Sayo was most likely superior to Koh.

@Dragonmasterxyz

Fights in Dusk/Dawn or in Cyber Sleuth? Because there is a huge power gap between them.

If Cyber Sleuth, then there's no problem.

If Dawn/Dusk, well not sure since we have no indication of how powerful they were then compared to Cyber Sleuth. And since ExoGrimmon can't scale, ZeedMillenniummon (who is supposed to be the strongest being in Digimon second only to God) was displayed no where near that level of power or even acting the way it should, it would be very questionable scaling at best, contraditory and inconsistent at worst.
 
Maybe we could add Dawn/Dusk era stats to Zeed to avoid future confusion? Or add a note instead. Anyway, I see your point and I believe that 2-A scaling is probably ruled out for Dawn/Dusk characters.

Furthermore, do you believe we can scale end game bosses to post game bosses? Like scaling ExoGrimmon from 3-A to Low 2-C to 2-C. For what its worth, near the end of DS, Alphamon and ClavisAngemon take a hit from Chronomon, albeit it was a casual hit and they were heavily damaged from it.
 
@Darkanine

Well, Sayo should keep her status as 2-A, as she did explicitly performed a feat of that level , but only her to avoid the confusion and was the only one who appeared in Cyber Sleuth.

ExoGrimmon should be Low 2-C if he intended to erase the entire Digital World, which also includes it's space-time continuum. 2-C? Maybe, if ExoGrimmon was as strong as or at least in the same league as Chronomon.

As for Zeed, I really don't think so, not only because of how much weaker he was, but also because he was very out of character for something that wants to destroy everything, as he was just indifferent to the Digital World along with the rest of the Gaia Origin, which had some Royal Knight members, who also acted very out of character as well. I think it's best to treat the Zeed, Omegamon, and Alphamon, Imperialdramon PM, Gallantmon CM and so forth as different versions from the main counterparts (like how Marvel and DC have different versions of their characters, and since Digimon also has a Multiverse, that theory's not too farfetched.
 
We tend to scale off of lore since they're usually consistent with each other (I.E, if a Digimon is stated to be able to do something in the lore, they probably can in the anime/games), granted the scale is usually different, like Wendigomon's time hax in the lore is implied to be on a greater scale than what he did in the anime. That is, unless its really inconsistent with the anime/game current feats.

That said, I do want to keep cross-series scaling to a minimal, which reminds me, Lore MetalGreymon is only 7-C so we may have to remove the country rating from Dawn/Dusk profiles.
 
Which is why I feel some of the Digimon in Dawn/Dusk are inconsistent with their lore, and should not scale if they contradict.

So, yeah, Koh can be resistant to Reality Warping as shown here, ExoGrimmon being higher rated and the Gaia Origin scaling possibly but I don't agree with the rest overall.

And I feel we shouldn't add any of the Gaia Origin stats to the profiles, as they already are rated at that level or even higher already.
 
Which is why I feel some of the Digimon in Dawn/Dusk are inconsistent with their lore, and should not scale if they contradict.

Sorry, that was what I met to imply. We probably can't scaling since they're inconsistent with Dawn/Dusk power ratings, sorry, I'm rather tired so I guess the point didn't go across.

And I feel we shouldn't add any of the Gaia Origin stats to the profiles, as they already are rated at that level or even higher already.

Most are, except for Apocalymo. He has Low 2-C feats but none of them scale to his durability so I think he could get a divider. I agree that the rest don't need one.
 
Awww. I would've loved Apocalymon to be 2-A. He'd be a riot with SMT Dante with his pizza line
 
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