Devourer vs Eevolutioner

[Kaltias]

Erasing things, converting them to nothingness etc is void manipulation.

And protecting yourself from being erased is protecting yourself from being erased. Pulling your soul out of your body is different from erasing it

 

[PaChi2]

I only came to this thread because I saw Devourer and instantly though Lavos...

I'm disappointed ovo.

Same here.

 

[Dragomer]

Erasing things, converting them to nothingness etc is void manipulation.
And protecting yourself from being erased is protecting yourself from being erased. Pulling your soul out of your body is different from erasing it

Goku protected his soul from being erased , as it was said directly that it would erase his soul too

yes it's a different action but what Goku does doesn't change , he protect his soul with ki , i don't see why Ki would protect the soul from being erased but wouldn't wouldn't protect it if someone was trying to remove it from your body

and just removing the soul isn't gonna change much since we already saw Goku fight while dead

 

[PaChi2]

bruh. You are giving goku abilities he hasnt demonstrated and jumping through hoops to argue your points. bruh

 

[Dragomer]

bruh. You are giving goku abilities he hasnt demonstrated and jumping through hoops to argue your points. bruh

see what i said above : if someone tank a punch , is he somewhat resistant to punch or somewhat resistant to brute force ?

the same apply here

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

"He resisted his soul being erased, so he can resist his soul being removed"

Well, apparently, if I can resist being blown up, I can resist being absorbed, because that's totally how it works.

 

[PaChi2]

Black hole =/= brute force.

Soul absorption =/= Soul erasure

Keep trying.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Also, Goku resisting Hakai was just it not instantly killing him. He resisted in that it wasn't immediate erasure, but it would have erased him soon if Beerus didn't step in.

 

[Dragomer]

"He resisted his sould being erased, so he can resist his sould being removed"
Well, apparently, if I can resist being blown up, I can resist being absorbed.

being blown up and being absorbed aren't related in the slightest

while Souls erasure and soul manipulation are both soul hax

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Being blown up and being absorbed are both brute force hax, m9.

 

[Dragomer]

Also, Goku resisting Hakai was just it not instantly killing him. He resisted in that it wasn't immediate erasure, but it would have erased him soon if Beerus didn't step in.

He was in base form and still resisted , Freezer in his golden form no selled it

and Migatte No Goku'i is above both SSJB20K and the Genkidama Goku used , wich in itself was above anything he could throw in his SSJB20K form , unless you want to argue that Golden Freezer is stronger than SSJB20K Goku , it's pretty clear he resisted it

also it isn't Hakai

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I don't think we scale resistance due to being stronger.

 

[Dragomer]

Black hole =/= brute force.
Soul absorption =/= Soul erasure

Keep trying.

supposedly low 2-C black hole = a low 2-C attack

never said they were the same , just that they are related enought for Goku to defend himself from both , as Ki always shown to give all around resistance rather than specific ones , nice straw man

that last remark is clearly there to be dissrespectfull , let's keep this discussion civil and let's not try to rill each other up , okay ?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Low 2-C Black Hole =/= Low 2-C punch

No, theyre not

Youre grasping at straws and giving general resistances to abilities Goku has never shown a resistance to

 

[Dragomer]

I don't think we scale resistance due to being stronger.

so Goku , while using the same power source as Freezer , a better mastery over it and just plain more of it , is just less resistant than Freezer just because he has shown to be less resistant than Freezer while in a form weaker than Freezer ? he is inherently less resistant than Freezer , just because ? okay , absolutly not unfair or ignoring the context of the scene

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Dragomer

That is literally not how resistance works in any way, shape or form.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

so Goku , while using the same power source as Freezer , a better mastery over it and just plain more of it , is just less resistant than Freezer just because he has shown to be less resistant than Freezer while in a form weaker than Freezer ? he is inherently less resistant than Freezer , just because ?

Yeah, you basically summed it up.

 

[PaChi2]

Straw man? You are saying that Goku can resist having his atoms crushed in a black hole because he has KI.

 

[Dragomer]

Being blown up and being absorbed are both brute force hax, m9.

i don't even see how absorbption is a physical attack

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

i don't even see how absorbption is a physical attack

It is absorbing the opponent's body, in the same way Soul Manipulation is absorbing the opponent's soul -_-

 

[PaChi2]

And for some reasons goku has matter manipulation that allows him to destroy black holes.

You cant punch black holes. You simply cant. You cant kamehameha a black hole. You cant.

 

[Dragomer]

Low 2-C Black Hole =/= Low 2-C punch
No, theyre not

Youre grasping at straws and giving general resistances to abilities Goku has never shown a resistance to

a low 2-C black hole won't do more damage to someone with low 2-C durability than a low 2-C punch

yes , they are , Soul erasure and Soul manipulation are both soul hax , they are related

and you're providing not counter argument

do you really think that the writer thought 'I'm gonna show Goku resisting having his soul erased while wanting him to still be vulnerable to every other soul related stuff without leaving any hint of that' ? hell , most writers just think that existence erasure is the level above soul manipulation

 

[Dragomer]

@Dragomer
That is literally not how resistance works in any way, shape or form.

yet that's how it's portrayed in DB since the very start

 

[The_Everlasting]

Resisting Existence Erasure (Which, mind you, Goku barely has anyway) doesn't mean Goku can resist getting his soul sucked out.

 

[Dragomer]

i don't even see how absorbption is a physical attack

It is absorbing the opponent's body, in the same way Soul Manipulation is absorbing the opponent's soul -_-

not all absorption work like that

and yes if you can resist being blown up by a nuke , a sarlac will have a hard time absorbing you , that's litteraly how Bobba Fett survived absorption , by just having an armor that durable

 

[The_Everlasting]

Bruh, a Sarlacc doesn't absorb you, it eats you.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dragomer Black Holes ignore durability, it absolutely will

Related but not the same thing, not even close

Youre assuming the writers care about VSdebates. The fact of the matter is if Goku hasnt shown resistances to certain abilities, you cant just go "Oh he's resisted something completely different so he must be able to resiste this as well" and expect it to work as an argument.

 

[Dragomer]

Straw man? You are saying that Goku can resist having his atoms crushed in a black hole because he has KI.

Trunks back in the Android Saga could reduce someone on Freezer's level to atom with a normal ki blast , yet it never posed any probleme to any character fighting him in that saga

he litteraly survived a singularity / black hole in the TOP

atom or not , if something can't go throught your durability , it won't do any damage

 

[The_Everlasting]

"Trunks back in the Android Saga could reduce someone on Freezer's level to atom with a normal ki blast"

That statement comes from a supplementary guide that is probably not literal.

"he litteraly survived a singularity / black hole in the TOP"

Which acts absolutely nothing like a real black hole.

 

[Dragomer]

And for some reasons goku has matter manipulation that allows him to destroy black holes.
You cant punch black holes. You simply cant. You cant kamehameha a black hole. You cant.

like you can't punch a dimension ?

like you can't shake nothingness ?

where was it said in DB ? nowhere ? good

what was said in DBS ? that with mere shockwave Goku would destroy the univers ? and what is part of the univers ? black holes

 

[PaChi2]

But goku MUST PROVE THAT HE CAN, you cannot extrapolate resistances and abilities like that.

 

[SchroKatze]

Black holes suposedly destroy matter on quantum levels and converts into 2-D information.

Thresh black holes can do this to entire continuums and suck souls at the same time.

Has DB showed anything with that kind of power?

 

[Dragomer]

"Trunks back in the Android Saga could reduce someone on Freezer's level to atom with a normal ki blast"
That statement comes from a supplementary guide that is probably not literal.

"he litteraly survived a singularity / black hole in the TOP"

Which acts absolutely nothing like a real black hole.

said Guide is approved by Toriyama and published by Bird Studio , this guide is there to inform about DB and has no reason to not be litteral

because black hole in fiction are generaly realist and we know how they really work ?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

because black hole in fiction are generaly realist and we know how they really work ?

Black Hole

Im going to have you read this and then tell me when the "Black Hole" Goku destroyed displayed ANY of these properties

 

[Dragomer]

But goku MUST PROVE THAT HE CAN, you cannot extrapolate resistances and abilities like that.

as i said , that kind of thing is basic logic , he proved that he can defend his soul , so it's logical he can defend his soul against soul related stuff in general , not just soul erasure , as there is no hint nor reason for him to not be able to

 

[WeeklyBattles]

as i said , that kind of thing is basic logic , he proved that he can defend his soul , so it's logical he can defend his soul against soul related stuff in general , not just soul erasure , as there is no hint nor reason for him to not be able to

He never displayed the ability to. Unless he shows he can you cant use it as an argument

 

[Dragomer]

Black holes suposedly destroy matter on quantum levels and converts into 2-D information.
Thresh black holes can do this to entire continuums and suck souls at the same time.

Has DB showed anything with that kind of power?

'supposedly' = théorie about black hole change every years and shouldn't be used to define a fictional ability , Black Hole in fiction work like most people believe black hole work :they are just big spiral shaped hole that absorb matter to become more massive

Goku's shockwave would have destroyed the univers , including the black hole in it

Hit can creat his own dimension with it's own space time continuum and Goku can break it with his aura , not even having to go SSJB10K

Migatte no Gok'ui has also shown to affect infinit nothingness without any space nor time by just unlocking the form

 

[PaChi2]

You must prove that he can, the burden of proof is on your side. We dont need to prove that he can't, and your reasoning isnt enough proof. If you created a CRT on that basis it'd get rejected.

 

[Dragomer]

as i said , that kind of thing is basic logic , he proved that he can defend his soul , so it's logical he can defend his soul against soul related stuff in general , not just soul erasure , as there is no hint nor reason for him to not be able to

He never displayed the ability to. Unless he shows he can you cant use it as an argument

He has , he has shown that he can prevent his soul to be erased , while in base form and caught of guard , and here he is in his Migatte no Goku'i form , wich is league above his SSJB20K form

Golden Freezer who is barely on SSJB Goku's level litteraly no selled it

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Resisting having your soul erased =/= resisting having your soul sucked out of your body, theyre two completely different things