Devil May Cry: 2-A Removal

[StrymULTRA]

I don't think anyone will take issue with that.

You'd have to wait some months however as it was recently downgraded from Tier 1. Just saying.

 

[Unoriginal777]

You'd have to wait some months however as it was recently downgraded from Tier 1. Just saying.

Trust me, it won't be a problem. The only bone I have to pick is what I perceive to be clear misrepresentation of the verse outside 2-A removal shtick as that ship has been sailed at this point.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I'm really of your & other's ****, Clover:

I find it ironic that you emphasize specific wordings when you get on me for doing the same thing. Stuff like Mundus wanting to make the two worlds one is meaningless if one of them is infinitely larger than the other, that would literally be no skin off the Demon World's nose. The split being mentioned would not be relevant at all if one realm was infinitely larger than the other. Straight up.

My boy... Soo far, upto this point, your arguments are literally just skepticism and semantics but worded together differently this time. Anyone with pair of eyes and common sense would see this as blatant as things can go:

Ray of Light = Line of Light (In geometrical sense as a universe alongside its continuum is not a line as it was depicted here)

Split in half =/= split in two (Human and Demon World are two objects)

Merge = Combining two entities (Both Human and Demon World are combined)

Just drop it down already.

The thing is that I'd say it's your argument that does this. You insist one realm is infinite relative to another based on a single thing that isn't even an actual comparison and ignore the self-evident intent of the split being an equality of light and dark

The comparison is right there, all you need to do is look at it closely:

But even to that primordial existence, there came a ray of light.

That is without mentioning, Light and Darkness are clearly dual opposites and was meant to depict in such a fashion because our universe represents stability and order while Darkness represents chaos and disorder. At worst, you can argue it is an indirect comparison from Light towards Darkness but a comparison still nonetheless.

The entire point of that panel is to showcase the value of both worlds from qualitative (inb4 1-A) and quantitative standpoint.

Tell me, is the Human World just light and that's it? No, it's a whole universe with living beings. It's obvious the light didn't remain as just that, based on that alone. The fact that the light verbatim "became" the Human World makes it clear that the ray of light didn't remain just a ray of light

Light is a metaphor for the nature of our universe you silly ******. Light represents Humanity and it's relationship with it's mother figure aka Darkness that represents chaos and instability. It "becoming" Human world just means that it is what it started to be "known" as—not that a light literally molded itself into a universe. Did you even read the manga? Because if you did, you could have pointed that on spot that this entire manga is supposed to represent events in a subtle and poetic fashion.

But alright lets play this game your way, Clover. How about you try to prove me how it "grew" up into a universe—I'm still waiting here.

I don't care for any whataboutisms, I'm talking about this specific panel where the light is clearly not infinitely smaller than the darkness

Oh? You mean this panel?

Do you even think you know what it means broski?​

It isn't depicting the size of the world you *****. It is showcasing a Human female in black silhouette, a representation of Eva aka Dante & Vergil's mother and Sparda's wife while the Demon in the white silhouette is Sparda and the reason why they are represented in opposite fashion is because they both accepted each other's nature hence Dante and Vergil—that simple.

You were focusing on specific wordings with your own argument just earlier, no? This shows that you do understand the importance of different wordings in communicating different meanings.

This is to say, it's not just some meaningless semantic difference. "Merge" and "assimilation" have different meanings, and the fact that it's the former communicates something different than if it were the latter. "Fusing" a Low 2-C realm with a 2-A realm is not a merge. It's an assimilation. There wouldn't be any struggle to bring them together, it would be trivial

Yet these two words can overlap depending on the context... Are you fr?

Also don't try to to BS me around with struggle as it was clearly shown the Light was trying to resist the influence of Demon World & as Unoriginal pointed out, that there already exists a wall between worlds that do not let it happen. Soo really you are just embarrassing yourself here, all things considered.

Also, "question basic reading comprehension." Yeah ok

Yeah because you clearly failed me to prove otherwise.

You know what?

I agree, actually. I should not have put that there, but I think Mundus's statement about bringing them together in the same scan helps me all the same.

It really doesn't as well fam, trust me.

More whataboutisms, and awful ones at that.

I don't give two flying ***** about "wHaTaBoUtIsM" as a term—I'll point out hypocrisy wherever I see, that simple. Soo really, all I would say here is to cry me rivers about it. Anyways, my point is your feelings is overlapping with narratives here. I'm simply arguing what the standards are here. All you did is bend the context around for your own satisfaction.

Now lets see what you said here:

• Yes, Dragon Ball shouldn't be 5-D. I'd even say that DBS being 2-C throughout the entire series is also wrong, along with Toei DBZ/GT being 2-C.

Surely DB has known to have innumerable oppositions here as well but they are still prevailing as always, that ain't an excuse Clover boy.

• Funny you say that when I've developed my own skepticisms of it, and the main thing keeping it afloat for me is Sonic face-tanking an explosion that split the universe.

Can I provide me the scan for that btw? Just wanna see how blatant it is for you to consider that but not this.

• Isn't the Royal Guard's true power literally able to shake the three realms? As in, that's stated by the characters themselves? I was skeptical until this came around, so this is not a good whataboutism

Not exactly. There is a little thing I personally noticed when I seen Uryu who is supposed to scale to these RG bunch was struggling with Renji until he pulled an absorption ability and claimed right after that he would have lost to Renji if he known his abilities firsthand or Ichigo struggling to take down Askin or Yhwach at 70% of his power struggled with Yamamoto who by no means scales to SZ—even on the wiki currently (one could argue that Yhwach got stronger later via absorbing powers from the fodder Quincies but that really is an assumption all things considered however I would let that slide). But I won't going to talk over it anymore, it's their verse soo they should realize or explain it someday—I only mind my own business.

I just brought these three verses as an example to your "visions" of narrative, I personally believe all of them are fine the way they are—I'm just pointing out how your logic drags them down as well.

As you can see, this attempt to brand me a hypocrite and being biased against DMC falls apart. I simply want the verse to have accurate ratings, and I'd hope y'all do as well

I'm not saying you're biased. I'm saying your reasoning is complete garbage.

 

[Antvasima]

For the record, I think that Clover seems to make good sense here.

 

[Random-Helper323]

For the record, I think that Clover seems to make good sense here.

The problem before us isn't the 2-A stuff. Clover is arguing for an infinite human world as a separate aside.

 

[Unoriginal777]

For the record, I think that Clover seems to make good sense here.

On what part if you don't mind me asking? The 2-A removal which is a natural consequence of the container thread or the semantical argument attached to it trying to make the DW and HW equivalent spaces for some reason that's been challenged time and time again throughout the course of this thread especially after Clover expressed an unwillingness to address further challenges in any real depth of which there are plenty to go around (i.e. he states and I quote: "So overall, none of the given points actually do anything to discredit the argument I've made. I don't intend to keep a string of incredibly long responses going, so more than anything, I'll use this response to implore any staff who look at this thread to consider the OP and the arguments I've made now against the rebuttals to reach an informed decision").

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

I'm still waiting on a scan that says the Demon and Human World are the same size.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm still waiting on a scan that says the Demon and Human World are the same size.

You know that wouldn't matter anyways, right?

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

You know that wouldn't matter anyways, right?

Given that it is a fundamental part of his argument that the Demon and Human World equal, I would say it would matter alot.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Given that it is a fundamental part of his argument that the Demon and Human World equal, I would say it would matter alot.

Nah, because the Demon Realm does not encompass the 5D distance that would be needed to be above Low 2-C, given that 2-C and above do not involve just the physical 4D size of the universes, but also the 5D distance between them.

Otherwise every timeline that has an infinite sized universe inside would be 2-A, and I do not think that'd be right.

 

[SeijiSetto]

honestly the argument about them being the same size is largely irrelevant (no shade clover)
lordgriffin's container thread says an inf difference in size between a Low 2-C uni and its container as well as said container POTENTIALLY being able to hold infinite universes is not 2-A
we tier it based on how many universes are actually in it (hence why Low 2-C through 2-A are different at all)
DMC's 2-A rating is based on this, so nuke it

 

[StrymULTRA]

Even then, I do not think that the Human World being merely a ray of light in the Darkness that is the Demon World matters much because:

• By common sense, given it managed to split the Darkness in two, and the Light taking on one of its parts, it's clear that the Human World is also logically infinite as it has to be relevant in size in order to be able to physically split infinite darkness. A blade that manages to slice an infinite sized butter must also be infinite sized, as otherwise it'd be lost in the butter.
• Most of imagery of light in the darkness do show the light as still physically comparable to the darkness surrounding it (examples 1, 2, and 3).
• The Demon World can be "bigger" than the Human World, but given we're dealing with infinities (which both would be by default as they're both Universal+ timelines, which have to be infinite-sized to begin with given their 4D mass), both Worlds would still be roughly the same in size (plus is not even unheard of this, you guys brought Dragon Ball here, but ignore how the Kaioshin Realm is counted as Low 2-C just like the Mortal Universe is, because of both being infinite sized while one is just 1/10th of the other in size), so an infinite space being smaller than another one is not an absurd notion, because there's no evidence of the size difference between them being literally infinite as in "infinitely smaller in all the directions".
• I do not think that 2-A works as that is just a countable infinite amount of 4D worlds and minor 5D space between all of them, which is just a really weird middle, and the Demon World does not meet it as it lacks said 5D space. The only argument that one can make is the Demon Realm being Low 1-C, because that's how it works here when dealing with Tier 2 or 1, either just vaguely higher in the same tier, or +1D, no in-between.

 

[CloverDragon03]

honestly the argument about them being the same size is largely irrelevant (no shade clover)
lordgriffin's container thread says an inf difference in size between a Low 2-C uni and its container as well as said container POTENTIALLY being able to hold infinite universes is not 2-A
we tier it based on how many universes are actually in it (hence why Low 2-C through 2-A are different at all)
DMC's 2-A rating is based on this, so nuke it

Worth noting too, as just mentioned, that 2-C to 2-A structures all have some sort of insignificant 5-D space to separate the universes. The Demon World, as a 4-D structure, completely lacks this, so it shouldn't be rated this way to begin with. Appreciate that being brought up

Also if you wanna get real technical, "unending darkness" can just as easily mean that the darkness persisted for a long time before the light came in rather than being about size

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also if you wanna get real technical, "unending darkness" can just as easily mean that the darkness persisted for a long time before the light came in rather than being about size

Given this is a downgrade about cosmology, I think you can also downgrade the size of the Demon World too, ye.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Given this is a downgrade about cosmology, I think you can also downgrade the size of the Demon World too, ye.

I'm not gonna get into that, I've seen some other stuff that seems like it supports infinite size Demon World aside from this so it's very low priority for me

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm not gonna get into that, I've seen some other stuff that seems like it supports infinite size Demon World aside from this so it's very low priority for me

The current cosmology blog does not have these, so I think it's indeed relevant tbh.

 

[StrymULTRA]

EDIT: NVM I did find the other infinite statements.

Devil May Cry Cosmology Blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Unoriginal777]

Nah, because the Demon Realm does not encompass the 5D distance that would be needed to be above Low 2-C, given that 2-C and above do not involve just the physical 4D size of the universes, but also the 5D distance between them.

Otherwise every timeline that has an infinite sized universe inside would be 2-A, and I do not think that'd be right.

I agree with @CloverDragon03 that due to the container thread 2-A is functionally impossible as things currently stand. However, I do find myself waiting with expectation for when our mutual friend Clover will be so happy as to provide scans supporting equivalence between the DW and HW space, along with justification for why a merge must be between two equivalent components among other things...

 

[Unoriginal777]

Worth noting too, as just mentioned, that 2-C to 2-A structures all have some sort of insignificant 5-D space to separate the universes. The Demon World, as a 4-D structure, completely lacks this, so it shouldn't be rated this way to begin with. Appreciate that being brought up

Also if you wanna get real technical, "unending darkness" can just as easily mean that the darkness persisted for a long time before the light came in rather than being about size

You can't get away with the latter because the context kills the idea as Sonic masterfully stated above "But even to that primordial existence (referring to the unending darkness which if you were attentive to the very page that comes right before this you'd know this merely expounds upon the nature of the darkness the world was born of meaning this isn't about how long the darkness had been there since it was already unending to begin with until the narrative shifts from staying squarely in the period of the genesis of existence to the birth of the Human World) there came a ray of light (not an infinite ray or light, not a slightly smaller ray of light, a somewhat smaller, or even a much smaller ray, no just a ray)." Not to mention the visual aspect of the page which while incapable of fully providing an adequate comparison of the DW versus HW (no picture illustration can fully portray infinity and it is nothing short of strange to expect such a thing and if you continue to ask for such unmanageable burdens of evidence I will require video/picture evidence of you counting infinity from 1-infinity without the use of Set Theory) it helps support things by showing yet again the size difference symbolically. You have not even once provided a real reason to pursue a temporal interpretation and until you do you have the distinct privilege of receiving a free Hitchens Razor and Non-Sequitur until further notice.

As for 2-A the votes already declare where this wiki stands regardless. So you can take that from DMC at your leisure.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Even then, I do not think that the Human World being merely a ray of light in the Darkness that is the Demon World matters much because:

• By common sense, given it managed to split the Darkness in two, and the Light taking on one of its parts, it's clear that the Human World is also logically infinite as it has to be relevant in size in order to be able to physically split infinite darkness. A blade that manages to slice an infinite sized butter must also be infinite sized, as otherwise it'd be lost in the butter.

In this case the word split is defined after to mean the light and dark separated from each other, not a full physical split of the demon world. In this case the split would more refer to the knife pulling out of the butter like a splinter being removed.

• Most of imagery of light in the darkness do show the light as still physically comparable to the darkness surrounding it (examples 1, 2, and 3).

You can't show all of an infinite thing relative to a finite thing. The mere fact that the darkness is all wrapped around the light hints at the darkness being bigger.

• The Demon World can be "bigger" than the Human World, but given we're dealing with infinities (which both would be by default as they're both Universal+ timelines, which have to be infinite-sized to begin with given their 4D mass), both Worlds would still be roughly the same in size

Apparently that's not how it works.

• (plus is not even unheard of this, you guys brought Dragon Ball here, but ignore how the Kaioshin Realm is counted as Low 2-C just like the Mortal Universe is, because of both being infinite sized while one is just 1/10th of the other in size), so an infinite space being smaller than another one is not an absurd notion, because there's no evidence of the size difference between them being literally infinite as in "infinitely smaller in all the directions".

I'm not even fixated on the human world being infinite, just the baseless assertion that they're equal. This determination to see it as a 50/50 split is only going to cause problems given that the demon world contains other dimensions of universal proportions.

• I do not think that 2-A works as that is just a countable infinite amount of 4D worlds and minor 5D space between all of them, which is just a really weird middle, and the Demon World does not meet it as it lacks said 5D space. The only argument that one can make is the Demon Realm being Low 1-C, because that's how it works here when dealing with Tier 2 or 1, either just vaguely higher in the same tier, or +1D, no in-between.

The 2-A was always based on the size that allowed it to contain infinite human world-like spaces. If that's not enough, that's fine. The ongoing argument isn't actually about that, it's about treating the human world's separation from the demon world as an equal split rather than a smaller object separating from a larger one.

 

[CloverDragon03]

until you do you have the distinct privilege of receiving a free Hitchens Razor and Non-Sequitur until further notice.

This is the corniest thing I've ever heard, I already said I'm not going that route and that even in that worst-case scenario the Demon World is still infinite in size. Chill

 

[Da3ggman]

Uhhhhhh quick question:

Regardless of whether this goes through, what about Low 1-C? Does this affect anything surrounding that?

 

[SeijiSetto]

Uhhhhhh quick question:

Regardless of whether this goes through, what about Low 1-C? Does this affect anything surrounding that?

Low 1-C based on this scan was already rejected in the past, so no
it would just go back to what it was before

 

[Da3ggman]

Low 1-C based on this scan was already rejected in the past, so no
it would just go back to what it was before

Good to know, thanks!

 

[Unoriginal777]

This is the corniest thing I've ever heard, I already said I'm not going that route and that even in that worst-case scenario the Demon World is still infinite in size. Chill

When you insult the person behind the argument (even if indirectly) without even taking the time to address strength of the argument and actually rebut it that's generally a sign of an indirect concession (and funnily enough it just so happens I can name a fallacy on this very same issue, before you click on the link, test your knowledge to see if you can guess which one I'm referring to). Said concession is one I happily accept btw on the DW>times infinity>HW issue. Meanwhile you can keep your debunk of 2-A DMC given the results of the container thread. Of course if you refuse to concede to the aforementioned DW being infinitely greater then HW issue I will not chill out. Choose wisely.

 

[Random-Helper323]

When you insult the person behind the argument (even if indirectly) without even taking the time to address strength of the argument and actually rebut it that's generally a sign of an indirect concession (and funnily enough it just so happens I can name a fallacy on this very same issue, before you click on the link, test your knowledge to see if you can guess which one I'm referring to). Said concession is one I happily accept btw on the DW>times infinity>HW issue. Meanwhile you can keep your debunk of 2-A DMC given the results of the container thread. Of course if you refuse to concede to the aforementioned DW being infinitely greater then HW issue I will not chill out. Choose wisely.

This is the corniest thing I've ever heard, I already said I'm not going that route and that even in that worst-case scenario the Demon World is still infinite in size. Chill

No need to provoke each other. Please try to tone it down a bit, both of you.

 

[CloverDragon03]

When you insult the person behind the argument (even if indirectly) without even taking the time to address strength of the argument and actually rebut it that's generally a sign of an indirect concession (and funnily enough it just so happens I can name a fallacy on this very same issue, before you click on the link, test your knowledge to see if you can guess which one I'm referring to). Said concession is one I happily accept btw on the DW>times infinity>HW issue. Meanwhile you can keep your debunk of 2-A DMC given the results of the container thread. Of course if you refuse to concede to the aforementioned DW being infinitely greater then HW issue I will not chill out. Choose wisely.

Your response wasn't even about the DW > times infinity > HW matter, it was about the DW being infinite in size in general. And like, yeah, as I've made clear both before and after the post you quoted, DW is in fact infinite in size. So yeah, I legitimately have nothing to say on that front. On the actual DW > times infinity > HW matter, though, you're kinda just regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. I'm not going to try and convince someone who will never be convinced no matter what, but rather, I'm just here to convince the evaluating staff.

When I say "chill out" I mean about your condescending, holier-than-thou tone you've constantly taken with potshots about my intelligence, ability to understand things, etc. with these responses that you totally didn't run through ChatGPT before posting, so if you refuse to stop that then that reflects on you.

(Also, you used the ad hominem fallacy wrong because the "direct attack" wasn't done to undermine any of your arguments, it was just commenting on the corniness of the response you made to something I already said I'm not pushing for )

 

[Unoriginal777]

Your response wasn't even about the DW > times infinity > HW matter, it was about the DW being infinite in size in general. And like, yeah, as I've made clear both before and after the post you quoted, DW is in fact infinite in size. So yeah, I legitimately have nothing to say on that front. On the actual DW > times infinity > HW matter, though, you're kinda just regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. I'm not going to try and convince someone who will never be convinced no matter what, but rather, I'm just here to convince the evaluating staff.

When I say "chill out" I mean about your condescending, holier-than-thou tone you've constantly taken with potshots about my intelligence, ability to understand things, etc. with these responses that you totally didn't run through ChatGPT before posting, so if you refuse to stop that then that reflects on you.

(Also, you used the ad hominem fallacy wrong because the "direct attack" wasn't done to undermine any of your arguments, it was just commenting on the corniness of the response you made to something I already said I'm not pushing for )

Gotcha so you won't concede to the DW being times infinity the HW. Then don't be surprised if I continue making rebuttals. I will admit at some points my frustration boiled over and I apologize for that. Regardless, I implore you to consider the strength of my points, however tainted by my frustration they might be. As for ChatGPT, I take pride in the fact that I draft my stuff out because I love to write, to be challenged, and to powerscale. I actually have defended DMC scaling long before joining VSBW was ever a consideration in my life and am very, very competitive especially. Just ask SuperSonicTL. And besides, even if my stuff was produced by ChatGPT that doesn't take away from the strengths of my essential arguments. However, I will take this time to cool down a bit. Perhaps I put on my debating terminator cap a little too tight so I'll loosen it just a little bit (that being said, in place of an Ad Hominem what you said on ChatGPT would technically be another fallacy as it inherently distracts from the actual discussion, my mistake on that one I guess. Again I say this without the intent to offend and will endeavor to be inoffensive going forward).

 

[CloverDragon03]

Gotcha so you won't concede to the DW being times infinity the HW. Then don't be surprised if I continue making rebuttals. I will admit at some points my frustration boiled over and I apologize for that. Regardless, I implore you to consider the strength of my points, however tainted by my frustration they might be. As for ChatGPT, I draft my stuff out cause I love to write,to be challenged, and to powerscale. I actually have defended DMC scaling long before joining VSBW was ever a consideration in my life and am very, very competitive especially. Just ask SuperSonicTL. And besides, even if my stuff was produced by ChatGPT that doesn't take away from the strengths of my essential arguments. However, I will take this time to cool down a bit. Perhaps I put on my debating terminator cap a little too tight so I'll loosen it just a little bit.

As will I. Regardless of how we came off to each other, I believe acknowledging when we've veered off a little too far is important

 

[Sir_Ovens]

When you insult the person behind the argument (even if indirectly) without even taking the time to address strength of the argument and actually rebut it that's generally a sign of an indirect concession (and funnily enough it just so happens I can name a fallacy on this very same issue, before you click on the link, test your knowledge to see if you can guess which one I'm referring to). Said concession is one I happily accept btw on the DW>times infinity>HW issue. Meanwhile you can keep your debunk of 2-A DMC given the results of the container thread. Of course if you refuse to concede to the aforementioned DW being infinitely greater then HW issue I will not chill out. Choose wisely.

Hello! Just wanted to let you know that not chilling out is not an option. In fact, chilling out is mandatory if you wish to stay in the wiki. So I implore you to choose  your words wisely. :3

 

[Unoriginal777]

Hello! Just wanted to let you know that not chilling out is not an option. In fact, chilling out is mandatory of you wish to stay in the wiki. So I implore you to choose  your words wisely. :3

You do know by chill out, I mean concede. Right? I thought that was fairly clear seeing as I'm not like slinging out insults (I only ever threw an insult once in this thread iirc) or cursing people out or something. Just making sure ya know though I do appreciate the call to proper behavior. It demonstrates the respectability of this site on a professional level.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Man I miss old VsBattles

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

At first I thought you just weren't adding votes but Now I see I am not correct.

for the ping

You missed DDM's vote, Twice

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm not even fixated on the human world being infinite, just the baseless assertion that they're equal. This determination to see it as a 50/50 split is only going to cause problems given that the demon world contains other dimensions of universal proportions.

Nobody ever said that.

Just that two things can be of both infinite size despite one being larger than the other.

For example, speaking of pure geometry:

1. m x m x m
2. 5 m x m x m
3. 5 m x 5 m x m

As you can see, each object is infinitely larger than the next due to having an infinite direction more, but given we're talking about countable infinity in this case, there wouldn't be much difference in terms of Tiering (hence why more infinite multiverses won't make you stronger in 2-A).

The Demon World being infinitely larger than the Human World matters little, because both will be infinite anyway and still be Low 2-C, just like a pocket dimension made of infinite universes, each of infinite size would still be High 3-A.

So I really don't see a point in this.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Nobody ever said that.

Clover literally is saying it, that the two are equal in size.

Just that two things can be of both infinite size despite one being larger than the other.

That would also be fine, but that's not what Clover's pushing for.

As you can see, each object is infinitely larger than the next due to having an infinite direction more, but given we're talking about countable infinity in this case, there wouldn't be much difference in terms of Tiering (hence why more infinite multiverses won't make you stronger in 2-A).

The Demon World being infinitely larger than the Human World matters little, because both will be infinite anyway and still be Low 2-C, just like a pocket dimension made of infinite universes, each of infinite size would still be High 3-A.

So I really don't see a point in this.

This isn't about the 2-A stuff. Clover is pushing for an equal 50/50 split between two equal parts. That is what Unoriginal and myself are in disagreement with.

No current impact on tiering, but completely throws away the truth of the DMC cosmology.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Clover literally is saying it, that the two are equal in size.

That would also be fine, but that's not what Clover's pushing for.

This isn't about the 2-A stuff. Clover is pushing for an equal 50/50 split between two equal parts. That is what Unoriginal and myself are in disagreement with.

No current impact on tiering, but completely throws away the truth of the DMC cosmology.

Tbh I don't think that's true either, but I think the Human Would still be infinite off being relatively comparable to the darkness.

That said, it'd upgrade the 4-As to High 3-A.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Tbh I don't think that's true either, but I think the Human Would still be infinite off being relatively comparable to the darkness.

If I'm being honest, this is a situation that places the burden of proof on those saying the human world is infinite. We have evidence that the demon world is infinite, but what we have then is points of comparison. Mostly with the demon world, but also with other dimensions.

We have the worlds being described splitting "in two". The descriptions also call the demon world endless dark while calling the human world a single line of light. The term "split in two" is being extrapolated to prove equal size.

We have Mundus trying to take back a world and the notion that he might not bother if it was only a small part of his world. The problem is that we know he has a reason to want humans, that being that human blood is a "precious" power source. Even without that it wouldn't prove comparable or equal size.

Finally we have the "struggle", which seems honestly irrelevant to the respective sizes.

In short, there just isn't sufficient evidence to call the human world equal in size to the infinite demon world which by the way literally contains other dimensions described as either comparable in size to the human world or in other cases described as infinite.

That said, it'd upgrade the 4-As to High 3-A.

The issue before us isn't just if the human world is infinite though, it's if it is equal to the demon world.

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

I don't know what is the argument now but for merging one, it's just non-sense because of:
Merging never stated that only equal things are able to do it. Not in the wiki, not in dictionaries
If both demon world and human world merge with each other, demon world would consume/absorb human world. Once when they were going to merge with each other, Demon world was consuming Human World:

And DMC3 manga says that if sparda didn't prevent from the merging, demon world would have consumed human world:

So if they merge with each other = Demon World consumes Human World

I hope no vague points had left

 

[Unoriginal777]

Tbh I don't think that's true either, but I think the Human Would still be infinite off being relatively comparable to the darkness.

That said, it'd upgrade the 4-As to High 3-A.

Our issue is more on whether the DW is larger with respect to the HW then not. @CloverDragon03 is pushing for equivalency between the two structures size wise. This is something I, @Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe, @Random-Helper323, and supersonictl take great issue with. That's our only problem really as 2-A is not salvageable as things currently stand so no one's gonna waste their time on that.

 

[chosen]

If everyone agrees that 2a is ****** atm then I gotta ask
Is there being multiple timeline in dws contested or not making. Cuz then wouldn't that make hw 2c too?