Oh so it is that
Anyways Thank you
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Devil May Cry: 2-A Removal
- Thread starter CloverDragon03
- Start date
- Status
Anyways Thank you
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Given you technically have conceded, then I suppose that for the time being these will be High 3-A, as these feats are almost never involving time.
And yeah, you'd have to do a Staff only discussion on this.
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I mean, yea, it'd be a concession functionally speaking because only a staff discussion changes things around here standard wise and that's if and only if you have the necessary votes. To call this an exercise in futility on my part would be accurate since the cards were already stacked against me to begin with. It was fun though and informative. Besides, the real staff thread was the friends we made along the way.
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Nothing has really changed. As I said before @LordGriffin1000 and @DarkDragonMedeus both agree for the downgrade of DW from 2-A to 2-C. However, @CloverDragon03's other proposition of DW=HW has been given 0 positive reception from either staff member.Which staff members have accepted what here?
In short:
Agree to just the downgrade from 2-A: @LordGriffin1000 and @DarkDragonMedeus
Agreement to equivalent sizes between the Human and Demon Worlds: 0
Agreement to both propositions: 0
Disagree: 0
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Beastheads feat is shaking entire reality and with it's laws etc, unless laws only exist in present instant, it's not just a physical space shaking feat. Language and context is also a thing. the entire symbolism and power of Beastheads is time, each of it's three heads represent past-present-future.
Universe/Reality/World/Earth/Heaven automatically means everything in the world. Human World isn't just some infinitesimal spatial slice of a timeline, it it the entire timeline by itself. So shaking the world is shaking everything, not just space.
Universe/Reality/World/Earth/Heaven automatically means everything in the world. Human World isn't just some infinitesimal spatial slice of a timeline, it it the entire timeline by itself. So shaking the world is shaking everything, not just space.
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At this point it's pure semantics and that'd need a standard change, as shaking a universe was never Low 2-C, but 4-A here.
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Exactly, but as always the almighty staff have spoken. Only a staff thread would change anything at that point though I'd be happy to exchange ideas with you outside of this thread if you'd be willing going forwards.
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I don't need VsWiki and it's it decontextualised one dimensional standards to tell me what happens in the plot. It's better if the wiki sticks to evaluating stories and feats rather than dictating what happens in the story. Interpretation is not their job.
Also always bringing up standards when they are not needed is lame. Significantly affecting a Low2C structure is a low2c feat. You don't need a standards debate let alone a standards change to understand that.
Also always bringing up standards when they are not needed is lame. Significantly affecting a Low2C structure is a low2c feat. You don't need a standards debate let alone a standards change to understand that.
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That sentiment I can understand and relate to as well. I don't need VSBW standards to scale and have done so without for a long time and am continuing to do so outside VSBW. Heck in debates I only go logical without appeal to wikis or else I'm more then happy to deconstruct any appeals to wiki with the added bonus of a liberal use of a favorite fallacy of mine for with a neutral judge moderating things so no one can cry "not fair." However, we're in the the wiki setting and thus will have to conform to their standards one way or another unless we make changes via the necessary channels.
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Shaking is not what it's considered one atm.
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?? What does that mean?
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What he means is the wiki won't allow it via majority vote unless a majority vote goes against this take via another staff thread. This ain't like debating the good old fashioned way with a neutral judge or two unfortunately. "Just another VSBWism, bazinga" I always say before I turn on the laughing track and go about my day. There's no point in letting it bother you.
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"Significantly affect" is here used as an umbrella term for feats that don't involve direct creation or destruction but are comparable to them in power, such as warping and distorting the entirety of the structure in question, sustaining its existence with energy, merging the structure with another one, etc.
Shaking is not comparable to these, you need something similar to massive reality warping.
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In any case, lets keep the thread on topic @GilverTheProtoAngelo and @StrymULTRA. The topic is outlined by the OP.
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Yeah, right. Bitching about standards later.
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That's the most arbitrary distinction if I have ever heard one. I can accidently kill a person by shaking them violently, pretty sure i can kill a timeline by shaking it violently as well.
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We should stay on topic my friend. As I said previously this thread is neither the time nor the space (I apologize for the pun, but I couldn't not yaknow) for this specific discussion and at the risk of seeming a tad rude we should focus on the topic as opposed to derailing it further. @Antvasima what comes next given what the votes have been so far?
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I personally agree with both points of the proposal, but I have no rights.
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What do you mean with DW=HW?
From what I recall, I also agreed with Clover's suggested downgrade here.
Also, please stop with the pointless spam posts here. They will not stop this revision, only interfere by making it harder to communicate properly regarding what needs to be done.
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Yeah, its you, DDM, and LordGriffin, that all agree with this downgrade.
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- Thread starter
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The proposal that the Demon World and the Human World are equivalent in size
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Okay. Please explain this suggestion, so our staff members here can help with evaluating it.
They aren't equal in size. It's debunk is available on previous comments. Human world is infinite, but Demon World is a larger infinite.
But mods accepted the downgrade because they are agree with this thread, Not both worlds being equal.
But mods accepted the downgrade because they are agree with this thread, Not both worlds being equal.
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- Thread starter
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Tbh I don't care as much for it anymore but I'll explain what my rationale is regardlessOkay. Please explain this suggestion, so our staff members here can help with evaluating it.
This, to me, seems like a pretty clear case of a dualistic split between light and dark. And most conflicts center around wanting to make the Demon World and the Human World one again, such as Mundus wanting to do as much and such a merge not being really relevant at all if one realm was infinitely larger than the other. It'd be an assimilation, not a merge, and scans that bring forth how the Demon World is "consuming" the Human World tends to be with stuff like the Human World's physics being altered (which doesn't really mean much, we know the Demon World's laws are quite different) and stuff like demons overrunning the Human World.
To me, it's clear that the light simply grows into what's now the Human World and that the darkness becomes the Demon World. People argued against this saying that "the light and dark are metaphorical," but this doesn't seem likely when you consider the use of the verb "became" to refer to them and the fact that the light coming in was amidst "primordial darkness." The darkness was also called "unending darkness." That doesn't come off as metaphorical to me, rather, it's describing the darkness itself. And them "becoming" the Human World and Demon World just further suggests to me that this is the light and dark taking on these physical, less primordial forms that are now their own worlds.
Ohhh
All of these got debunked. You can read previous comments
All of these got debunked. You can read previous comments
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I really really really hate this notion of "oh I personally think they're debunked therefore you can't use these arguments anymore" like, simply put, I don't think any of the rebuttals were adequate
Did you see my comments and other dmc supporters' comments? If no check them in all of the pages
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I made like a giant response at one point, and I was keeping track of the thread seeing other people like Seiji and Strym responding to y'all as well. Believe me, I know
Not to mention, nothing really actually addressed that giant response I made to begin with
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Clover, I think you're being stubborn here.
No one here is opposing 2-C, we're against the notion of the HW and DW being equal in size, considering the fact that the Demon World contains 11 infinite-sized realms and one of them is the Mirror World, which is a copy of the Human World, that alone debunks them being equal.
The whole of the DMC cosmology would be 12 universes, with the DW being 11 universes and the HW being 1. No one is denying the HW being infinite too, just not equal to it.
No one responded me. And afaik, seiji was pointing that it must be downgraded due to that thread. Not about being equal in sizes.
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Ryu, you too, no need to spam this.
Plus if this nonsense of HW = DW is accepted with people still ignoring my points on purpose (that'd violate Wiki standards as they're straight up going against an accepted part of the cosmology blog without directly addressing it), I'll make a thread for it, so that people will be forced to see it.
Plus if this nonsense of HW = DW is accepted with people still ignoring my points on purpose (that'd violate Wiki standards as they're straight up going against an accepted part of the cosmology blog without directly addressing it), I'll make a thread for it, so that people will be forced to see it.
No worries bro. I gotcha.
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At this point, we should just make a new thread for the rest of the "points" of the debate...
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I'm not trying to stop the revision, at this point I wanna get things over with. That being said, do you also agree on the Demonworld being only about as large as the Humanworld despite the various challenges taken with that neck of @CloverDragon03's argument? If so then you'd be listed for agreeing with both propositions.From what I recall, I also agreed with Clover's suggested downgrade here.
Also, please stop with the pointless spam posts here. They will not stop this revision, only interfere by making it harder to communicate properly regarding what needs to be done.
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Those type of questions should be separate from this thread
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Bump.
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For the last 2 pages or so, they have been discussing the size of the Demon and Human realm (If it's infinitely bigger or the same size) and how many universes it actually scales to...
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Pretty much although from the looks we probably don't need to make an additional thread. We just need @Antvasima to define where he stands as it pertains to whether the Demonworld is equal to the Humanworld or not size wise. @DarkDragonMedeus and @LordGriffin1000 for example have only agreed to the downgrade from 2-A to 2-C concerning the Demonworld. Neither have shown positive reception towards the idea that the Demonworld and Humanworld are equal with Griffin outright putting it down. Regardless, it seems the votes (either way) would lean towards the downgrade aspect rather then the DW=HW issue. Now as far as I'm concerned that's a'okay with me.
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