Devil Hunter Vs Hero Hunter

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Dunno why he is class G, he should be at least class K scaling for being stronger than Nero or for some thread I saw some days ago.

Dante using DT in a fight is a completly different mind set from the usual cocky one, he is fully serius and when he notices the enemy is faster than him he will not doubt to use anything to gain back the speed.

You are right, Dante isn't casually 240mt, Sid is and Dante stomped him on DT mode. Their AP is at best equal and at worst with one having a slight advantage. Unless you want to claim Garou is 1gt without any calc to refute it.

Dante regen definetly comes into play, just checked the fight with Darkshine, he was using both WICF and WSRSF but didn't cut DS to pieces because of his dura. Don't know how high they scale above the calc but Dante on DT mode should be able to take the same punishment if not more and keep going.

Also, Garou didn't become Rel during his fight with DS, he was becoming faster, yes, but not fast enough to blitz to hell and back.

I personally feel you are overestimating Garou RE, the comic shows Garou becoming faster and stronger and then his body was at the absolute limit, he could barely keep walking and even fainted or died (which BTW was described as the process to become a monster).

@DDK

The OP can debate, give reasons, etc. The only thing that the OP can't do is vote. Personally I would say don't debate as it shows bias but to each their own.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Tony di bugalu

Dante using DT in a fight is a completly different mind set from the usual cocky one, he is fully serius and when he notices the enemy is faster than him he will not doubt to use anything to gain back the speed.

Agree with the DT attitude but not with the notice enemy is faster thing since he didn't use it on many demons who were faster than him such as Arkham, Gilver, Chen and hell even Vergil if we're strictly going by cutscenes.

You are right, Dante isn't casually 240mt, Sid is and Dante stomped him on DT mode. Their AP is at best equal and at worst with one having a slight advantage. Unless you want to claim Garou is 1gt without any calc to refute it.

See the post above yours for more of my thoughts on the AP. Also, Garou would be 1 gt because RE would cap him there since he can't go higher according to DDK.

Dante regen definetly comes into play, just checked the fight with Darkshine, he was using both WICF and WSRSF but didn't cut DS to pieces because of his dura. Don't know how high they scale above the calc but Dante on DT mode should be able to take the same punishment if not more and keep going.

Also, Garou didn't become Rel during his fight with DS, he was becoming faster, yes, but not fast enough to blitz to hell and back.

He didn't use WIRCF in the webcomic except with that one combo technique IIRC but I could be wrong, either way Darkshine was massively superior in almost every regard when Garou tried to use WSRCF on him initially before evolving unlike here where Dante would be at the disadvantage in AP, DB and Speed almost immediately after the battle starts so Garou is able to cut Dante to bits with WIRCF.

This Garou is after the Darkshine fight, right before he is all of a sudden relativistic so he would evolve to be relativistic here almost immediately.

I personally feel you are overestimating Garou RE, the comic shows Garou becoming faster and stronger and then his body was at the absolute limit, he could barely keep walking and even fainted or died (which BTW was described as the process to become a monster).

How am I overestimating? I'm literally just stating what happened in the manga and how crazy it is. Garou did go from 7-A to High 6-A and MHS+ to Relativistic moments apart from each other. We don't know if he fainted or not since we only see him lie on the ground unabled to move but fully awake.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Sorry I couldn't comment earlier, I was ded for quite some time all thanks to the U.


>Agree with the DT attitude but not with the notice enemy is faster thing since he didn't use it on many demons who were faster than him such as Arkham, Gilver, Chen and hell even Vergil if we're strictly going by cutscenes.

Arkham, they are comparable with him having a slight advantage over Dante, we never saw the fight either only the aftermath.

He didn't had the DT at the time he fought Gilver and if he had then that contradicts the canon.

Chen got dumped by a serius Dante who is almost the same as DMC2.

With Vergil is the same thing, not only they are comparable in everything (except for DMC3 where Dante wins and obvious hax) but SDT Vergil can keep up with SDT Dante. And again, we never saw the entire fight as that goes against the whole point of the game, you are the one fighting, not some cutscene doing the cool things you should be doing.

And if we want to go over this "cutscenes only" stuff then a lot of game characters in this whole wikia would take a great hit in hax or physical abilites since a lot of those comes from either gameplay or statements/files.

>See the post above yours for more of my thoughts on the AP. Also, Garou would be 1 gt because RE would cap him there since he can't go higher according to DDK.

He can go higher, yes, but that is monster Garou, the one used here is half monster who caps at 7-A before "dying" and coming back as a full monster who stomped everyone left and right.

Even then, if we go by 1 gt, thats only a 4x times advantage against a baseline 7-A, dante is well around the 240 by base alone and can close the gap with DT.

>He didn't use WIRCF in the webcomic except with that one combo technique IIRC but I could be wrong, either way Darkshine was massively superior in almost every regard when Garou tried to use WSRCF on him initially before evolving unlike here where Dante would be at the disadvantage in AP, DB and Speed almost immediately after the battle starts so Garou is able to cut Dante to bits with WIRCF.

He used it against DK as that was the only way to get past his defenses and even then he barely won taking into account his RE. With both, the barely AP advantage that he might have and the regen Dante has Garou won't be able to deal with him.

>This Garou is after the Darkshine fight, right before he is all of a sudden relativistic so he would evolve to be relativistic here almost immediately.

That one is awakaned Garou, full monster stuff your know.

>How am I overestimating? I'm literally just stating what happened in the manga and how crazy it is. Garou did go from 7-A to High 6-A and MHS+ to Relativistic moments apart from each other. We don't know if he fainted or not since we only see him lie on the ground unabled to move but fully awake

Because you keep thinking that Full monster Garou and Half monster are the same thing, the one who started to grow until he caped at 6-A was full monster, not half monster.


As for the fear hax, it isn't over time, IIRC the novel states that Beryl, a human who could stand against a full army of demons and even go near the nexus with the underworld got K.O. when the got in the prescense of Mundus.

You may say, well it was Mundus, but that's not the point, a human with high resistances is capable of doing that but in the presence of a stronger demon they go poof.

Now, this is a "normal" human (Garou) who lacks any form of resistance to mind fuckery, he isn't going to take it, he will either go insane or faint from sheer fear, just like with beryl.

 

[Dienomite22]

Arkham, they are comparable with him having a slight advantage over Dante, we never saw the fight either only the aftermath.

He didn't had the DT at the time he fought Gilver and if he had then that contradicts the canon.

Chen got dumped by a serius Dante who is almost the same as DMC2.

With Vergil is the same thing, not only they are comparable in everything (except for DMC3 where Dante wins and obvious hax) but SDT Vergil can keep up with SDT Dante. And again, we never saw the entire fight as that goes against the whole point of the game, you are the one fighting, not some cutscene doing the cool things you should be doing.

And if we want to go over this "cutscenes only" stuff then a lot of game characters in this whole wikia would take a great hit in hax or physical abilites since a lot of those comes from either gameplay or statements/files.

Neither Dante or Vergil went DT when Arkham came and attacked both of them also Arkham was seen multiple times easily dodging Dante's attacks in cutscenes.

Dante didn't have DT at the time of the DMC3 manga either but he somehow transformed. His majin should still activate if the threat was severe enough or he believed the threat was severe enough.

Chen was stated to be superior to Dante and the advantage against Dante for the entire fight but Dante decided not to use DT. It's pretty stupid how the Chen is directly stated and shown to be superior to Dante and then Dante suddenly getting mad effortlessly killed Chen. Could be a new ability for Dante like Rage Power or something.

Sure

Cutscene only is the only way to shut down opposition because it's based on something that's definitive and can't be argued against unlike gameplay were people who disagree with it being a valid basis of an argument can just deny it being canon.

He can go higher, yes, but that is monster Garou, the one used here is half monster who caps at 7-A before "dying" and coming back as a full monster who stomped everyone left and right.

Even then, if we go by 1 gt, thats only a 4x times advantage against a baseline 7-A, dante is well around the 240 by base alone and can close the gap with DT.

Either Garou you use, he caps at the highest 7-A can go which is 1 gt.

And we don't know how far DT would close the gap, Garou would still have the 4x AP advantage while Dante in DT would be unknowningly superior to 240 mt because we have no multiplier for DT. Not enough to one shot but Dante aint closing that gap unless you find a multiplier for DT somewhere.

He used it against DK as that was the only way to get past his defenses and even then he barely won taking into account his RE. With both, the barely AP advantage that he might have and the regen Dante has Garou won't be able to deal with him.

I don't remember Webcomic Garou using WIRCF against Darkshine, only WFRCF and once Garou began evolving Darkshine he easily destroyed Darkshine and Darkshine himself notes it iirc and saying his speed, technique, strength were all climbing while he couldn't do nothing but be on the defense. If Darkshine couldn't attack at all while Garou was attacking him then that's easily winning. Can Dante's regen save him from his entire body being cut into chunks with the WIRCF? No, he can survive a bullet to the brain but not his head being sliced to bits and his healing isn't fast enough to compensate despite it being above average in speed.

That one is awakaned Garou, full monster stuff your know.

Already stated earlier that Garou's speed increases isn't affected by tiering restrictions, so Garou would still get his speed from his monster form.

Because you keep thinking that Full monster Garou and Half monster are the same thing, the one who started to grow until he caped at 6-A was full monster, not half monster.

And I'm not using Full monster Garou, everything I mentioned was for half-monster Garou. Anyway you slice it, Garou would be reach peak 7-A. If you think Garou right after Darkshine fight is half-monster Garou then that Garou still evolves to 6-A moments later and if you think the Garou that fought Golden Sperm is 7-A then that Garoul still evolves to 6-A moments later, it literally makes no difference. The point is to emphasize that Garou's evolution would put him at peak 7-A nigh instantly.


As for the fear hax, it isn't over time, IIRC the novel states that Beryl, a human who could stand against a full army of demons and even go near the nexus with the underworld got K.O. when the got in the prescense of Mundus.

You may say, well it was Mundus, but that's not the point, a human with high resistances is capable of doing that but in the presence of a stronger demon they go poof.

Now, this is a "normal" human (Garou) who lacks any form of resistance to mind fuckery, he isn't going to take it, he will either go insane or faint from sheer fear, just like with beryl.

No, it's overtime, she never got K.O.'d by fear manipulation when she was in the demon world, the demons who she and Dante were traveling with did because the overflow of magic Mundus possessed. And the quote itself about the madness/fear manipulation points out that it's overtime. I proposed the ability and gathered the info in the first place so I am very familiar with inner workings behind it and how it works. https://imgur.com/a/aiq8c3Y ( "sensation that frequently led to instanity" "avoid sucumming to the atmosphere of despair")

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

>Neither Dante or Vergil went DT when Arkham came and attacked both of them also Arkham was seen multiple times easily dodging Dante's attacks in cutscenes.

They were both tired to the point Arkham of all things stomped them, I doubt they even had energy to pull the DT when Lady was capable of keeping with them and even block a strike from Vergil (but this one may be PIS).

Also, one thing is a casual attack like Dante shooting at Jester feets but another one is to go all out.

>Dante didn't have DT at the time of the DMC3 manga either but he somehow transformed. His majin should still activate if the threat was severe enough or he believed the threat was severe enough.

Majin trigger only activates at near death states, the other pseudo DT that he used against the SIN demon was consuming Dante and affecting his body, if he had that at that point then it's useless as it damages him at the same time.

And if he uses Majin the he gives Garou the Alice treatment and makes him faint.

>Chen was stated to be superior to Dante and the advantage against Dante for the entire fight but Dante decided not to use DT.

It's called PIS. Heck, it even says how Dante arms are broken and he can't use them anymore which is more PIS taking into account his insta regen.

>Cutscene only is the only way to shut down opposition...

You know that these are not games that put everything in a movie mgs style, this is a franchise that focuses on over the top action that makes you feel cool, you are not going to see a fight in a cutscene because it literally kills the whole experience.

I know how important is to have a scene showing stuff but when it is a work of fiction that lets the user do the things then the cutscenes gets on second stage.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself here. But I could try again if you want.

>Either Garou you use, he caps at the highest 7-A can go which is 1 gt...

The whole point of this is that DT makes him strong enough to one shot 240 mt easily, I'm not arguing it is enough to put them in an even AP fight, I'm saying that it is enough to take all the advantages Garou has in this fight which are higher AP and maybe skill.

It may not make him 4x stronger but definetly not a whimp to get slaped easily, DT will make him able to take hits and deliver them back without getting overwhelmed ASAP, yes, he will get overwhelmed at some point but that means using whatever that could save his ass which is HAX.

>I don't remember Webcomic Garou using WIRCF against Darkshine

He said something along the lines of "with WIRCF in my left hand and WFRCF in my right one" and started going ham on DK, and even then it wasn't an easy fight, heck, you can see that Garou is worse than DK when he faints and when Puri Puri wakes DK up.

>If Darkshine couldn't attack at all while Garou was attacking him then that's easily winning.

The whole fight DK was debating on Garou attacks becoming sharper and all but he wasn't trying, he even got scared thinking he may lose (which he did) that consumed his toughts to only try and attack with no faith in him.

>Can Dante's regen save him from his entire body being cut into chunks with the WIRCF? No, he can survive a bullet to the brain but not his head being sliced to bits and his healing isn't fast enough to compensate despite it being above average in speed.

Again, the AP advantage Garou has is not enough to cut him into chunks, he couldn't even do that to DK.

>Already stated earlier that Garou's speed increases isn't affected by tiering restrictions, so Garou would still get his speed from his monster form.

-Uses one key

-Says he will get the speed of the next key.

Again, he only gets Rel and High 6-A as a full monster, he ain't growing to that level as a half monster.

>If you think Garou right after Darkshine fight is half-monster Garou then that Garou still evolves to 6-A

Hmmm, no, he faints and "dies" then becomes a full monster.

>the Garou that fought Golden Sperm is 7-A then that Garoul still evolves to 6-A moments later

Because he is a full monster at that point, he "awakaned", heck, I don't remember him evolving while stomping GS, just when Saitama was going aggro on him.


It makes a clear distinction on what must happen for someone to become a monster (dying again and again, etc.) until the body evolves past that. In the same chapter we see how Garou feels his body being so heavy and can barely walk, he even says he will die there and faints, when he wakes up is that he stomps eveyone and you know why? It is because he is a full monster at that point.


>No, it's overtime, she never got K.O.'d....

Fair enough. Also, we need to take down Raiden vs Dante if this is the case as Dante won by that.


We also should stop with this long posts.

 

[Dienomite22]

Had to redo this because fandom ate my orginal post

They were both tired to the point Arkham of all things stomped them, I doubt they even had energy to pull the DT when Lady was capable of keeping with them and even block a strike from Vergil (but this one may be PIS).

Also, one thing is a casual attack like Dante shooting at Jester feets but another one is to go all out.

Don't think Dante or Vergil need energy to pull DT, at least that's the current consenses on it otherwise we might aswell put that as a weakness for Dante, Vergil and Nero.

Majin trigger only activates at near death states, the other pseudo DT that he used against the SIN demon was consuming Dante and affecting his body, if he had that at that point then it's useless as it damages him at the same time.

And if he uses Majin the he gives Garou the Alice treatment and makes him faint.

And Dante was in a near death state in his fight with Gilver, like literally about to die but he never used majin during that instance which was my point why Dante didn't use DT against someone like Gilver who was about to end his life.

You know that these are not games that put everything in a movie mgs style, this is a franchise that focuses on over the top action that makes you feel cool, you are not going to see a fight in a cutscene because it literally kills the whole experience.

I know how important is to have a scene showing stuff but when it is a work of fiction that lets the user do the things then the cutscenes gets on second stage.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself here. But I could try again if you want.

I already know what your saying because I made the same argument before in both DMC and GoW threads. I believe gameplay is valid to an extent but cutscenes are still the definitive way to see how a battle went down in verse. It's why we don't say Urizen, Vergil or any boss from DMC5 resists Ragtime timeslow despite gameplay and tutorial boxes showing/stating Ragtime's normal bubble timeslow is broken by bosses.

The whole point of this is that DT makes him strong enough to one shot 240 mt easily, I'm not arguing it is enough to put them in an even AP fight, I'm saying that it is enough to take all the advantages Garou has in this fight which are higher AP and maybe skill.

It may not make him 4x stronger but definetly not a whimp to get slaped easily, DT will make him able to take hits and deliver them back without getting overwhelmed ASAP, yes, he will get overwhelmed at some point but that means using whatever that could save his ass which is HAX.

This is literally what I've been saying already since before the thread had a massive break.

He said something along the lines of "with WIRCF in my left hand and WFRCF in my right one" and started going ham on DK, and even then it wasn't an easy fight, heck, you can see that Garou is worse than DK when he faints and when Puri Puri wakes DK up.

I remember that quote now Garou did use WIRCF. The fight was easy though once Garou started evolving, Darkshine himself had no memories of even being knocked out, Garou was beating him and then he tried to throw a punch and Garou blocked it and started beating him again until he randomly blacked out. Garou's injuries before evolving make it seem like it was a hard battle and breaking ones limiter in OPM causes intense pain which is what we see with Saitama and is the same thing that was going on with Garou after his fight with Darkshine.

The whole fight DK was debating on Garou attacks becoming sharper and all but he wasn't trying, he even got scared thinking he may lose (which he did) that consumed his toughts to only try and attack with no faith in him.

And that attack was a deliberate super alloy bazooka that is much stronger than the casual tackle he did that broke Garou's ribs moments before and the webcomic emphasizes that Garou was breaking his limiter during this sequence.

Again, the AP advantage Garou has is not enough to cut him into chunks, he couldn't even do that to DK.

Darkshine had superior everything to Garou besides speed so of course he couldn't do it him. Garou did easily use it on monsters who was comparable to slightly weaker than him such as the mouse monster who only survived because Garou's technique wasn't perfected at the time and they could heal instantly. Dante wouldn't have such advantage in durability against Garou.

-Uses one key

-Says he will get the speed of the next key.

Again, he only gets Rel and High 6-A as a full monster, he ain't growing to that level as a half monster.

Speed isn't tied to tiering restrictions and DDK hasn't said otherwise so it's valid. Not like it will make a difference though if Garou's speed was increased to the point Darkshine said it was like he was getting attacked by dozens of people at once.

Hmmm, no, he faints and "dies" then becomes a full monster.

Link to the chapter where he faints and "dies"

Because he is a full monster at that point, he "awakaned", heck, I don't remember him evolving while stomping GS, just when Saitama was going aggro on him.


It makes a clear distinction on what must happen for someone to become a monster (dying again and again, etc.) until the body evolves past that. In the same chapter we see how Garou feels his body being so heavy and can barely walk, he even says he will die there and faints, when he wakes up is that he stomps eveyone and you know why? It is because he is a full monster at that point.

No, because he still has a human face and appearence when he met GS, then they clashed for a couple panels and then Garou emerges fully transformed into a monster.

We don't see Garou faint, only that he ponders if he was going to die while lying on the ground because of the intense pain he is experience from beaking his limiter. Fainting isn't required for evolving and breaking ones limit in OPM. And I don't believe it lines up timeline wise since Fubuki vs Psykos starts before Garou vs Darkshine and Garou show right up at the end of it unless the fight lasted a long time to the point Garou and Darkshine can wake up before it ended.

We also should stop with this long posts.

I was done with long posts with my last reply to DDK tbqh. And I need to focus on other things like profiles and CRT's for DMC, Kamen Rider, Borderlands, Kingdoms of Amalur and I don't want to deal with fandom eating my post so this is my final long post for this thread.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

>Don't think Dante or Vergil need energy to pull DT

You are right, it could be PIS again. Or a weakness, it needs more discussion.

>And Dante was in a near death...

We know that the Vol1 is semi canon as some things contradict what was established later in the series, besides the obvious thing about it being written before DMC2 was released and on top of that Kamiya was the one who put hands there, not Itsuno who is the actual director of the series.

In short, don't take it at face value if it contradicts things that are canon (manga, dmc2, etc.)

>I already know what your saying because I made the same...

The problem is the same, we never saw those fights because there is not cutscene about them. Also, we need a CRT about it because Mundus, Nelo and the other generals resist time stop because it is a gamplay thing.

>Darkshine had superior everything to Garou...

Nowhere does it says it wasn't perfected, he even was shocked to see the rat putting everything back, and to top it off, they aren't comparable in the slightest, Garou was toying with them and even then the attack didn't cut the rat into pieces.

What makes you think that he would be able to do the same with Dante when the AP advantage won't be as high as with those monsters.

>Not like it will make a difference though if Garou's speed was increased to the point Darkshine...

If something like this happens Dante would respond with something to help him out, again, time slow or even time stop.

>Link to the chapter where he faints and "dies"

As you might know I speak spanish so I can only link the spanish one

>No, because he still has a human face and appearence when he met GS

There are a lot of monster that have human faces yet they are monsters. Garou evolved while "dying"

Also, both DK and Garou are way faster than those 2, their fight was faster obviously.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Man, Dante needing to fight with broken arms is just a punch at the series logic, considering his regen lol

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooor Beastheads can negate regen tho

 

[Schnee_One]

This is one of the best DMC debates I've read in a while

 

[Dienomite22]

@Tony di bugalu

I'll make this quick

We know that the Vol1 is semi canon as some things contradict what was established later in the series, besides the obvious thing about it being written before DMC2 was released and on top of that Kamiya was the one who put hands there, not Itsuno who is the actual director of the series.

Big part of DMC1 novel is Dante basically placed a "limiter" on himself and his power and only ever "removed" it after Gilver killed Jessica, Grue and Nell so that's probably the explanation. The novel is really good, better than volume 2 so I would recommand it.

Nowhere does it says it wasn't perfected, he even was shocked to see the rat putting everything back, and to top it off, they aren't comparable in the slightest, Garou was toying with them and even then the attack didn't cut the rat into pieces.

What makes you think that he would be able to do the same with Dante when the AP advantage won't be as high as with those monsters.

Murata confirmed that the reason Garou's WICF did not worked on the rat was because he didn't master it at the time and if Bomb were to use it he would have beaten the rat with one attack.

Bomb would have beaten the rat monster in one swift attack with Whirlwind Iron Cutting Fist before it can react. Garou hasn't mastered Whirlwind Iron Cutting Fist, which allowed the rat monster's Regenerationn to kick in and heal itself after being attacked.

I'm aware he says his word isn't WoG but this is clearly different from his other statements that the profiles used to reflect.

If something like this happens Dante would respond with something to help him out, again, time slow or even time stop.

And as I stated a long time ago, this Dante using time manipulation is a shot in the dark and not 100% certain.

As you might know I speak spanish so I can only link the spanish one

We don't know what happened here and based off saitama breaking his limiter Garou very well could have still been awake.

There are a lot of monster that have human faces yet they are monsters. Garou evolved while "dying"

Also, both DK and Garou are way faster than those 2, their fight was faster obviously.

No monster looked like Garou during that period, Garou had his human face and body, not humanoid like other monsters.

Fubuki and Psykos would actually be superior in speed to both them during this time since Darkshine scales to Bang and Psykos is faster than Bang so not exactly.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Hands are really flying in this debate arent they

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

This is the debate form of a stand clash.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

>Big part of DMC1 ....

The point of it was that you cant come to me and say "he was about to die and didn't use Majin trigger" because the novel came before the game that implemented the idea and even was further contradicted by the manga that shows Dante using it in a emergency state.

I know they are good, the problem is that I lack the time to read them by either being here or doing my shit for the U or even working.

>Murata confirmed that...

Man, the rat is 7-B while bomb is 7-A, of course he could have just tapped him and be done with it, you can even see how Garou stomped them and just played with them afterwards until Rover got aggro on them.

In fact, Garou completly stomped Royal Ripper with that same attack a little before that, it is an inconsistency considering both are 7-B and Garou was (or at least the profile says) 7-A at the time.

Also, you already put part of my answer with him sayin his word isn't WoG.

>And as I stated a long...

I love this argument because people tend to abuse the heck out of it.

Dante is a genius in combat, he may be playful and cocky at times but he isn't an idiot, IIRC Vol 1 even states that he does that to fool the enemies, even then if he sees something that is beyond his physical capabilities and has one or two abilities that can help him to even the grounds he will use it, its common sense.

>We don't know what...

My interpretation of that is that he "died"/fainted, which mind you is the process to become a monster, then woke up to whoop Fubuki and everyone else.

>No monster looked like Garou during that period...

Oh look, a bunch of monsters with human faces and normal bodies , this one not so much. There are more btw.

A lot of things look humanoid, monster Garou for example as well as human Garou. This point doesn't hold much weight.

>Fubuki and Psykos would actually...

Psykos barely catched him and he was already finished blitzing the hell out of everyone there.


This may be my last answer for the week or month depending on how ****** I am with my tests next week, so expect me to necro this either in 2 weeks or the next month.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Good luck

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Thank you Spooky :'v

Also, love this debate :v

 

[SpookyShadow]

I can comfort you, I'm even more ****** with my math. Welp, at least there's a chance in second semester.

This debate is gud as heck

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I know how you feel, I'm the same but with physics :'v

Also, yea, this one is helping me to improve my english debating skills :v

 

[KGiffoni]

@Dante Demon Killah
I know tier jump isn't allowed, the point was this Garou is moments before he evolved to High 6-A. Garou's evolution would still cap him out at the peak of 7-A and make him superior in AP to Dante.

Garou's MHS+ is faster than Dante's so he is allowed to use it and RE would boost his speed regardless of tier change is allowed or not.

But this is all dependant on Dante using Royal Guard before it's too late, Garou's attack reflection and surperior skill will prevent Dante from landing any hits and Garou himself is familiar with attack reflection and blocking.

Deconstruction is a problem but it has to hit aswell but Garou is all about dodging and deflecting and evolving.

Dante's only true way of tagging Garou is with time hax before Garou evolves in a few seconds.

This Garou isn't the High 6-C one (that fought Golden Sperm), it's the 7-A one that was almost one-shot by Darkshine who scales to Rover who is ~200 megatons. Just say this Garou has crazy fast RE and Immortality Type 2, it's easier.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Tony di bugalu

The point of it was that you cant come to me and say "he was about to die and didn't use Majin trigger" because the novel came before the game that implemented the idea and even was further contradicted by the manga that shows Dante using it in a emergency state.

I was correcting you by showing there is an in universe reason why It's not a contradiction i.e. Dante just un did the "limiter" he put on his powers after Eva's death righ before he fought Gilver. And Dante was in multiple scenarios after majin was introduced where he was in a near death state and could have used it. DMC3 Vergil battle 1 and end of battle 2, DMC anime, DMC volume 2 which was released after DMC2, DMC5 Dante vs Urizen 1 when he was fighting him for hours and doing no damage and I'm sure I'm missing more but those are from the top of my head.

Man, the rat is 7-B while bomb is 7-A, of course he could have just tapped him and be done with it, you can even see how Garou stomped them and just played with them afterwards until Rover got aggro on them.

In fact, Garou completly stomped Royal Ripper with that same attack a little before that, it is an inconsistency considering both are 7-B and Garou was (or at least the profile says) 7-A at the time.

Also, you already put part of my answer with him sayin his word isn't WoG.

Garou was 7-A when he fought the rat and Murata was explicitly talking about Bomb using WIRCF on the Rat not AP so that's irrelevent. And tiering is irrelevent because Murata was talking about the technique in the first place and saying Bomb's mastered WIRCF > Garou's beginning of the arc WIRCF. You can disregard his statement but it undoubtedly makes sense and lines up with the scaling because it isn't even talking about raw power.

Dante is a genius in combat, he may be playful and cocky at times but he isn't an idiot, IIRC Vol 1 even states that he does that to fool the enemies, even then if he sees something that is beyond his physical capabilities and has one or two abilities that can help him to even the grounds he will use it, its common sense.

Yes, Vol 1 states something like that but that doesn't mean he would uses those abilities like that right off the bat or when things got really tought like in DMC 3, DMC volume 2, the anime, DMC5 etc.

My interpretation of that is that he "died"/fainted, which mind you is the process to become a monster, then woke up to whoop Fubuki and everyone else.

"dying/fainting" isn't apart of the apart of the process and never stated to be, near death is the requirement.

Oh look, a bunch of monsters with human faces and normal bodies , this one not so much. There are more btw.

A lot of things look humanoid, monster Garou for example as well as human Garou. This point doesn't hold much weight.

Except the first two are artificial monsters created by them eating monster cells and they have the special ability to transform/transition between the two forms. Homeless emporor isn't a monster just labled as one because of his powers which got taken away by God so he's just a human. I got nothing on furhur ugly besides he got stronger from his desire for everyone to be ugly or something like that which is once again a special type of monster.

Psykos barely catched him and he was already finished blitzing the hell out of everyone there.

That would still mean she is faster than Garou or Darkshine at this period of time.


Good luck with schooling. Don't worry about this stuff, it can wait. Schooling is more important.

 

[KGiffoni]

" "dying/fainting" isn't apart of the apart of the process and never stated to be, near death is the requirement. "

Except that one time he was fighting evenly with Royal Ripper and Bug God, only to go unsconscious, survive, and come back one-shotting the exact same RR

 

[Dienomite22]

That doesn't mean it's a requirement. Psykos never states fainting is apart of the process unless I missed it somewhere and even then it's contradicted. Garou's monsterfication process increased multiple times without him actually fainting, just look at Garou vs Orochi or Garou vs Rover.

I believe Garou vs the heroes is also another example.

 

[KGiffoni]

Yeah, i'm not saying that fainting is necessary for the monsterification to occur.

Fainting Ôêê Monsterification

Monsterification Ôêë Fainting

 

[Dienomite22]

oh ok.

 

[Dienomite22]

Also, I want to correct myself from a minor slip up. Garou at the end of the Darkshine fight was indeed healed from his injuries from Darkshine's attack according to the visuals/his lack of damage but then he is next seen damaged after Tatsumaki flips the MA and then he evolves. Could be a mistake on ONE's part or Tatsumaki might have involuntarily been the cause of the damage on Garou.

 

[KGiffoni]

Hmmm actually that's a good point to make

But since even PPP was unhurt by it i think it's mostly ONE's drawing and not actually intended

 

[Dienomite22]

I believe Tatsumaki created a space for all the heroes who would be caught in the rubble like she did with Darkshine. Then again Child Emperor believed PPP and Darkshine would survive and be able to move in the rubble so it's probably an oversite by ONE. Have to wait for Murata's redrawing to get a good answer probably.

 

[Dienomite22]

Also, Child Emperor's judgement could be incorrect here since Tatsumaki took the effort to protect Darkshine from the rubble to protect him from death and she likely did the same to PPP because he's obviously weaker than Darkshine and one of the weakest S-classes.

 

[Dienomite22]

This Garou isn't the High 6-C one (that fought Golden Sperm), it's the 7-A one that was almost one-shot by Darkshine who scales to Rover who is ~200 megatons. Just say this Garou has crazy fast RE and Immortality Type 2, it's easier.

There is no High 6-C Garou because people seemed to have agreed he was High 6-A after his post Darkshine evolution. For some reason.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Whoever wins this, either way I think we can all agree on one thing.

Fist of water polo carbonation is still the superior martial art.

 

[SpookyShadow]

The only thing that comes close is Ultimate Hellfire Burst Wave-Motion Cannon

 

[Schnee_One]

There is no High 6-C Garou because people seemed to have agreed he was High 6-A after his post Darkshine evolution. For some reason.

Probably because he was High 6C for literally a second in this form before becoming High 6A

Of course, CRT that if you disagree

 

[KGiffoni]

This Garou isn't the High 6-C one (that fought Golden Sperm), it's the 7-A one that was almost one-shot by Darkshine who scales to Rover who is ~200 megatons. Just say this Garou has crazy fast RE and Immortality Type 2, it's easier.

There is no High 6-C Garou because people seemed to have agreed he was High 6-A after his post Darkshine evolution. For some reason.

Nobody agreed on that, it's just that the period he's High 6-C is so little that we don't have a key for it

 

[Dienomite22]

@Schnne One

That would be enough to warrant a new key or a note that explains what that state is considered and why it isn't a tier. Otherwise Garou's tiering is confusing because that form would be mistaken for his 7-A or 6-A tier depending on the interpretation. Garou in particular needs a CRT to seperate his webcomic and manga version anyway since it messess up his scaling in particular thanks to ONE and Murata altering feats to fix the webcomic scaling.

@KGiffoni

^

 

[KGiffoni]

Tbh i don't think it's worth a new key

I think it should just be added to his Half-Monster key as "7-A to High 6-C" or something

 

[Schnee_One]

But it would be 7A to High 6A

 

[Dienomite22]

That would be more confusing tbqh. A note would be better and get rid of the confusion without having to add a new tier.

 

[KGiffoni]

But it would be 7A to High 6A

Half-Monster. Awakened is post-GS

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

>I was correcting you by showing there is an in universe reason why It's not a contradiction...

I already gave my point regarding Vol 1.

>And Dante was in multiple scenarios after majin was introduced where he was in a near death state...

DMC3 first battle, he didn't go Majin trigger because he awakaned his actual devil trigger, there is a clear reason why it didn't happen there.

Second battle, he was only tired not in a death peril or a emergency like in the manga.

DMC anime, this would be a great point but instead it actually proves how strong and powerful his Accelerated Development is, he took a beating from a 7-A and Dante jumped from 7-B to 7-A in a matter of minutes. Besides we don't know how the fight went, if Dante was insta one shotted or got toyed by Sid but going by how fast Sid got back into the human world it could be said that Sid didn't lose time playing and went in for the win.

Vol 2 has more of a PIS fight to make us readers feel that Dante is actually threatened by something, he just stomped Mundus who created the beastheads that give power to Chen, we now that Mundus is not reckless to make something stronger than him going with the visions of V manga.

Heck, the same battle even forgets how Dante's regen works by saying that both arms are broken and useless in that fight.

Finally DMC5, there was no fighting, more like Urizen spaming long range stuff only for Dante to try and get past his shield (IIRC in game you can break the shield and the mission is over) but regardless, Dante was never in a death threatenig situation beyond getting one shotted.

For DMC1, he never got in a situation that was a death peril, the only one could be said against Mundus but he had Sparda's power so null, DMC3 never had that past the first battle, DMC2 was just Dante being a GOD around everything, same with DMC4 and the only fight he had in 5 that was something like that had him getting one shotted. Vol2 had a PIS battle more than anything soo...

>Garou was 7-A when he fought the rat and Murata was...

You know, that actually works more of an anti feat as the rat should have insta die by Garou doing that with the AP involved in both parties.
For the sake of having the scaling make sense Imma call it an outlier (despite my hate for the word).

>You can disregard his statement but it undoubtedly makes sense...

It doesn't, whatever way you look it with the AP involved the rat should have died the instant Garou made his move, for it to survive is an outlier

> Yes, Vol 1 states something like that but that doesn't mean he would uses those abilities

I never said he will use them right out off the bat, I said that once he realices how Garou is gaining the upper hand in speed to the point of getting overwhelmed he will use them

>like in DMC 3, DMC volume 2, the anime, DMC5 etc.

With the sole exception of the anime, and Vol 2 which I already tackled above for obvious PIS, in any of those we never saw how the fight goes because once again cutscenes only show the first contact and the aftermath of a fight.

> near death is the requirement...

Garou himself said he was going to die in the link I posted some time ago, he could barely move, his body hurted and he could barely see what was ahead of himself.

>Except the first two are artificial monsters created by them eating monster cells and they have the special ability to transform/transition between the two forms.

How does that change the fact that they look humanoid, human bodies and faces yet they are monsters? Same with Garou who is a monster yet can go back to a human form.



I got my grades and ****** up in some classes so I will go AWOL and come back later some time the next week or this weekend depending of what the others decide to do...

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Now I expect the help of a lesbo cat

 

[ShivaShakti]