Destiny: Winnower and Gardener 1-A and Abilities

[WHYNAUT]

This thread is a sequel to this one.

Sandbox

This thread can be added to the list of 1-A threads, while the previous one gets listed as rejected. It's primary purpose however, is for the abilities within the sandbox to get evaluated. For the record, these abilities would also apply to the eventual Gardener page for obvious reasons.

For reference, here is the thread in which Light and Darkness got accepted as having Type 5 Acausality and here's the one for Type 2 Nonduality.

Thanks for your time.

Agree: @Ultima_Reality (minus Nonduality), @Sir_Ovens (minus Nonduality), @Elizhaa (minus Nonduality), @deonment, @Setsuna_tenma, @Robo432343

Disagree: @Fixxed (with NEP and Nonduality)?

 

[ShakeResounding]

Always wondered whether or not 1-A was a possibility, but powerscaling Destiny on Vs Battles always intimidated me. Maybe one day I'll make that Titan page sandbox I keep thinking about...

Either way, can't wait to see this unfold when the time comes. The page is nicely done and the quotes you've chosen are perfect. Excellent work.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Either way, can't wait to see this unfold when the time comes. The page is nicely done and the quotes you've chosen are perfect. Excellent work.

Thanks!

 

[deonment]

Yeah this looks good to me

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree

 

[Robo432343]

agree

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Oh, been a while.

Anyway: As said in the previous thread, 1-A is pretty straightforward all-in-all. The abilities are fine as well, for the most part, but Nonduality seems a bit under-justified. What's with it?

 

[WHYNAUT]

Oh, been a while.

Anyway: As said in the previous thread, 1-A is pretty straightforward all-in-all. The abilities are fine as well, for the most part, but Nonduality seems a bit under-justified. What's with it?

Ah nice. Thanks for the eval.

Nonduality is the one I was least confident about yes. But I'm about to get off the computer, so I'll explain my thought process tomorrow.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Oh, been a while.

Anyway: As said in the previous thread, 1-A is pretty straightforward all-in-all. The abilities are fine as well, for the most part, but Nonduality seems a bit under-justified. What's with it?

Okay, so the rules of the game are the basis for everything, all of creation. So either the rules are all dual systems, or dual systems are a manifestation of the rules. Now the new rules, Light and Darkness, were explicitly separated from the rest of the rules, so that they couldn't be compromised. This shows that the Winnower and Gardener can just create new logical systems should they so desire. But they aren't beholden to the rules themselves.

 

[Fixxed]

1A looks fine. But nonduality 3 and NEP 2??? ND 3 need more specific explanation about truth states while NEP 2 need to be non-existence to begin with, also why CM 1 i think just manipulating the rule are law manipulation alone

 

[WHYNAUT]

Oh, been a while.

Anyway: As said in the previous thread, 1-A is pretty straightforward all-in-all. The abilities are fine as well, for the most part, but Nonduality seems a bit under-justified. What's with it?

Bump

 

[WHYNAUT]

Bump

 

[WHYNAUT]

bump

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Okay, so the rules of the game are the basis for everything, all of creation. So either the rules are all dual systems, or dual systems are a manifestation of the rules. Now the new rules, Light and Darkness, were explicitly separated from the rest of the rules, so that they couldn't be compromised. This shows that the Winnower and Gardener can just create new logical systems should they so desire. But they aren't beholden to the rules themselves.

Yeah, I'm fairly skeptical of that reasoning. Nonduality in general is inherently a contradictory power (By design), so I don't think there is much that can actually get it off of logic alone and without explicit statements of including logical dichotomies (Since the power breaks logic to begin with). So, yeah, no.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

@Planck69 @DarkDragonMedeus @Sir_Ovens @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Elizhaa

Ditto here.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm good with everything and agree with Ultima on the nonduality bit.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Thanks for the input.

Yeah, I'm fairly skeptical of that reasoning. Nonduality in general is inherently a contradictory power (By design), so I don't think there is much that can actually get it off of logic alone and without explicit statements of including logical dichotomies (Since the power breaks logic to begin with). So, yeah, no.

In that case Light and Darkness should lose their currently accepted Type 2 Nonduality, yes? Should they get Resistance to Law Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation instead?

 

[Elizhaa]

I'm good with everything and agree with Ultima on the nonduality bit.

I shared similar thoughts.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Okay, so there's no ongoing discussion and three admins have agreed with the sandbox minus the Nonduality. This thread can probably be closed and I'll post the page later today, or at least this week.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Okay, so there's no ongoing discussion and three admins have agreed with the sandbox minus the Nonduality. This thread can probably be closed and I'll post the page later today, or at least this week.

Could you briefly explain the reasoning behind why Winnower is 1-A ? I read through the Sandbox and I'm not truly confident in my understanding of it. Not saying it isn't 1-A because I do believe it is, but I'd like further understand if that's alright.

The abilities sans Nonduality do makes sense though.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Ultima summed it up nicely in the previous thread.

For what's worth, though, they seem to be pretty straightforwardly 1-A. They're aspatial and atemporal ("Before the first tick of time and the first point of space"), their garden prefigures and defines all existence, universes emerge from it and it's described as infinitely vast in comparison, and they're explicitly described as not having any constituents that they can be partitioned into. Pretty solid case overall.