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Destiny Statistics Revision 2: Arc Boogaloo

WHYNAUT

WHYNAUT

8,951
989
It's time to for another round of revising Destiny character statistics. This one is pretty uncontroversial. I think.


Revising the AP of fodder (And by extension Durability and Striking Strength)​

Currently baseline Guardians are rated as 8-B, because according to the Drifter, Aunor took out a city block. But the Drifter lied. Aunor only destroyed a warehouse and she didn't do so with an attack. As such a downgrade is in order.

I believe baseline Guardians and those on their level (Knights, Captains, Minotaurs, etc.) should be "At least 9-A". Those who are weaker but still comparable (Vandals, Acolytes, Centurions, etc.) would be just "9-A". Lastly Thralls, Dregs, Shanks, etc. should be "Likely 9-A". They're a lot weaker than Guardians, but given the chance they can still hurt them.
Then now the reasoning for 9-A.

Feats:


Revising Atheon's rating (And what this means for the other 2-B characters)​

Atheon is listed as 2-B for having control over the Vault of Glass. The Vault of Glass supposedly contains a trillion timelines, but I've searched and I couldn't find any mentions of this. A trillion timelines are only mentioned thrice. Once in relation to the Infinite Forest and twice in idle dialogue by Lakshmi-2, neither of which refer to the Vault of Glass. So 2-B must go.

But what replacement feats are there? Well the Vault of Glass is still its own reality that extends throughout all timelines. As shown by the dead Ghosts and their memories, multiple separate timelines do seem to exist in the Vault of Glass.

Oryx and those who scale to him don't get downgraded however. Oryx was still overwhelming the Vex presence within the Sol System, which includes the aforementioned Infinite Forest. The Infinite Forest expands ad-infinitum, so if anything this is an upgrade to the 2-Bs.

- Proposed rating for Atheon: At least Low 2-C, likely 2-C.

- Crota and those who scale to him would become: At least 4-B, likely Low 2-C, possibly 2-C.

- Oryx and those who scale to him would stay 2-B but would need to have their justifications edited.


Revising Riven's rating​

Riven should be downgraded to at least 5-C, likely 4-B. The Guardians don’t directly fight her in the Ascendant Plane, so we can’t give her a rating for that. She's still one of the most powerful characters in material space, hence the proposed rating. That's all.


Revising verse-wide speed ratings​

Currently all characters are rated as either Relativistic or FTL. Both of these ratings need to go. This is one of the rare cases where the lore is actually less impressive than the gameplay. Every time these levels of speed are brought up they are presented as very impressive and in the lore the character haven't dodged or blocked them. When I proposed the relativistic rating in the previous statisitc CRT I used Sagira dodging a shot from a Goblin as evidence. However I confused the weapons of Goblins with those of Hobgoblins. Hobgoblins are the ones with a relativistic attack.

So for the new ratings I have a number of feats.

First off all it's important to note that humans in Destiny have a higher reaction speed than humans in the real world. In Destiny the baseline reaction time to a visual stimulis is less than 200 milliseconds (less than 100 for Awoken). The average for humans IRL is 250 milliseconds.

Feats for foddder:

Feats for high tiers:

Those who can use Arc Light should get (up to) Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed. They have been shown as capable of manipulating natural lightning. And their attacks can create ozone, involve electromagnetism, manipulate electrons, and (as shown by the Fulminator) affect nerves. That and they’re frequently described as lightning (example).

Also Guardians should have a variable attack speed with weapons for obvious reasons.

Proposed ratings:
- Baseline Guardians and those who scale should be: At least Subsonic.

- Those who downscale should just be: Likely Subsonic.

- High tiers should be: Massively Hypersonic+

- Users of Arc Light should get: Massively Hypersonic+ Attack Speed with Arc Light

- Arc Light users should get Paralysis Inducement and Pain Manipulation just like the Fulminator.


Revising the Lifting Strength for most characters​


Currently many characters have their Lifting Strength listed as Uknown. Time to change that.

Feats:

Proposed ratings:
- Titans and physically comparable characters (Knights, Collosi, Minotaurs, etc.) should be: At least Class 5.

- Hunters, Warlock and those who scale (Wizards, Cabal, etc.) get either: Class 1 or Class 5.

- Powerful Warlocks get: At least Class 5, likely far Higher. (Because of the floating islands feat).


Revising the high ends for class profiles (Warlocks, Knights, etc.)​


The last change is a small one. Warlocks have a high-end of "At least Moon Level+, possibly Solar System Level". I simply want to change the "possibly" to a "likely", just like all the other profiles with a 4-B high-end. We know for a fact that there's unnamed Guardians who are comparable to the Player.

For Wizards and Knights the current high-end is "Moon Level+". It's missing a "likely Solar System Level". The profiles include less notable members of the Court of Oryx, who are comparable to the Player as well.


Conclusion​

  • Baseline Guardians, Knights, Minotaurs, etc. are At least 9-A.
  • Vandals, Acolytes, Centurions, etc. are 9-A.
  • Dregs, Thrall, Shanks, etc. are Likely 9-A.
  • Atheon is Low 2-C, Likely 2-C
  • Crota and those who scale are At least 4-B, likely Low 2-C, possibly 2-C.
  • Oryx and those who scale are higher into 2-B than before.
  • Riven is At least 5-C, likely 4-B.
  • Baseline Guardians and those who scale are At least Subsonic.
  • Those who downscale are Likely Subsonic.
  • High tiers are Massively Hypersonic+
  • Arc Light users have Massively Hypersonic+ Attack Speed.
  • Arc Light users have Paralysis Inducement and Pain Manipulation.
  • Guardians' Attack Speed Varies with weapons.
  • Titans, Knights, Collosi, etc. have At least Class 5 Lifting Strength.
  • Hunters, Warlocks, Wizards, etc. have Class 1 or Class 5 Lifting Strength.
  • Powerful Warlocks have At least Class 5, likely far Higher Lifting Strength.
  • Guardians should have a general Varies rating.
 
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On the topic of Atheon. Atheon affecting every axis in a space-time bulk warrant a tier?

"Atheon waits in the Vault of Glass. Just as Atheon sidesteps 'past' and 'future', it is impossible to say whether Atheon created the Vault or the Vault created Atheon. Causal pathways converge on Atheon from every axis in the space-time bulk."

Isn't this Brane cosmology stuff?

Also Atheon would be "At least 2-C" at the minimum since the Vault of Glass has a crazy amount of statements and descriptions of having multiple timelines.
 
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I agree with all of the changes.

Might have to ask Ultima for his thoughts on that statement, I also thought a while ago that it could be support for Low 1-C Destiny.

I'm still waiting for immeasurable Destiny
 
I forgot to add this, but Guardians should have a variable attack speed with weapons. Depending on the weapon it can range from not much faster than a Guardian to the speed of light.

@Dienomite22 @Mr.Cinos15

The reason I didn't use those timeline statements is because it's unclear whether they're from the VoG or the realities that brush up against it.

The space-time bulk could potentially be Low 1-C, but it isn't always. To my knowledge there's no further evidence of this in the case of the VoG.

Sadly speed ratings for outside of material space will remain at Unknown.

@PsychoWarper

Thanks!
 
I think Hunter's getting an at least Class 1, possibly/likely Class 5 (based off of them incorporating pieces of Titan Armor) is fine. Maybe an At most Class 5 would be fine.

Ikora's feat should be calculated, and I know she's an incredibly powerful Warlock who's far above even elite Warlocks, but is there any lore that implies that she's physically superior (lifting strength wise, not ap wise) to the average Warlock? Cause if not then maybe her feat can scale to other Warlock's.

I think it might be for the best to calculate all of the feats that can be calculated.
 
But is there any physical feats for Warlocks that can put them on a level close to a Titan? Cause if not, then I don't they can scale to Class 5 sadly if they don't have better feats then that. The lifting islands feat(?) Is an extreme unknown, so at best it can be used to justify a likely far higher with Telekinesis/Light or whatever.
 
WHYNAUT said:
@Dienomite22 @Mr.Cinos15

The reason I didn't use those timeline statements is because it's unclear whether they're from the VoG or the realities that brush up against it.

The space-time bulk could potentially be Low 1-C, but it isn't always. To my knowledge there's no further evidence of this in the case of the VoG.
Click to expand...
The VoG just having two timelines in it would already qualify Athlon for 2-C. Nevertheless, I would argue that it's likely a good portion of the timelines Praeydith seen are from the VoG itself. Praedyth witnessed timelines that "already happened, might happen, and might not happen" already implying that the timelines spoken of are not all other realities that already exist that are brushing up against the Vault. He has a spatial presence in these timelines based on him being able to move out of them and turn around to view his surroundings while in a timeline meaning he's not viewing timelines that are brushing up against the VoG but is actually within them. Regardless, Atheon and the VoG would be 2-C at the minimum.

Yea, we do need more evidence for a brane cosmology but I don't think it needs to pertain to the VoG necessarily as long as it's talking about the Destiny cosmology as a whole and then we can connect that to the space-time bulk that the VoG mentions. But that might be a CRT for another day.
 
@Sakamaki_Fuji

That's one of the listed feats yes.

@Dienomite22

Yeah that's why I think Atheon is Likely 2-C.

That seems to merely be Praedyth's own interpretation, not fact. Many of the timelines Praedyth sees also include the Light and the Guardian, two things the Vex can't simulate.

That same lore entry also says he's still within his cage while he sees the timeline. His prison is described as "not strictly real", so that could potentially explain how he can experience outside timelines while still being stuck within his prison.
 
WHYNAUT said:
@Dienomite22

Yeah that's why I think Atheon is Likely 2-C.

That seems to merely be Praedyth's own interpretation, not fact. Many of the timelines Praedyth sees also include the Light and the Guardian, two things the Vex can't simulate.

That same lore entry also says he's still within his cage while he sees the timeline. His prison is described as "not strictly real", so that could potentially explain how he can experience outside timelines while still being stuck within his prison.
Click to expand...
The Vex can simulate Guardians and light, they just can't simulate the changes the Guardians and light would cause in actuality. I.e. the Vex create a simulation where a Hunter uses an Arc staff, it can't account for the Hunter not using the Arc staff or doing anything else. The Vex can create a timeline filled with Light, Guardians, and the Traveler but it's a timeline with only one truth which is the Light, Guardians, and Traveler following the set path created by limitations of the Vex who can't truly simulate Light's paracausal nature. That's why the lore entry repeatedly implies that not all the timelines are real, have happened, or might not happen so simulations are likely mixed in with them at least I think.
 
Do you have any sources for that, because that contradicts a lot of lore. And I meant The Guardian, not just Guardians.
 
WHYNAUT said:
Do you have any sources for that, because that contradicts a lot of lore. And I meant The Guardian, not just Guardians.
Click to expand...
Curse of Osiris intro cutscene has Guardians in a Vex simulation and the Vex simulated Hive and even Hive Knights in the Infinite Forest as "proxy". I imagine it's the same for any timeline they create that involves light. I believe the only statement that the Light and Darkness can't be simulated is something along the lines of "Vex can't simulate the paracausal nature" or something which doesn't mean Light and Darkness can't be simulated, just the Vex can't simulate the next thing Light and Darkness does or something like that.
 
Dienomite22 said:
Curse of Osiris intro cutscene has Guardians in a Vex simulation and the Vex simulated Hive and even Hive Knights in the Infinite Forest as "proxy". I imagine it's the same for any timeline they create that involves light. I believe the only statement that the Light and Darkness can't be simulated is something along the lines of "Vex can't simulate the paracausal nature" or something which doesn't mean Light and Darkness can't be simulated, just the Vex can't simulate the next thing Light and Darkness does or something like that.
Click to expand...
What make you think that these guardians were simulated?
 
Sakamaki_Fuji said:
What make you think that these guardians were simulated?
Click to expand...
If they weren't simulated, they wouldn't have been paused by Osiris stopping the simulation nor ignored by the Vex once they adapted to Osiris stopping the simulation. Not to mention that the Guardians are in the VoG raid meaning it's a simulation because we know the VoG is not truly in the Infinite Forest.
 
Those Guardians were in the actual Vault of Glass, not the Infinite Forest. They were paused because Guardians don't usually resist time stop.

Random Hive aren't inherently acausal. I don't see the Infinite Forest simulating Taken and Ascendant Hive, who are actually paracausal, for example.

The Vex very much can't simulate either. The whole point of the Curse of Osiris campaign is that Panoptes must be stopped because he's (supposedly) on the verge of discovering a way to simulate and beat the Light and Darkness.

The Vex can simulate Guardians physically, sure, but they can't actualize their power, not just their actions.


I'm sure there's more, but I'm too lazy to search for them.
 
WHYNAUT said:
Those Guardians were in the actual Vault of Glass, not the Infinite Forest. They were paused because Guardians don't usually resist time stop.

Random Hive aren't inherently acausal. I don't see the Infinite Forest simulating Taken and Ascendant Hive, who are actually paracausal, for example.

The Vex very much can't simulate either. The whole point of the Curse of Osiris campaign is that Panoptes must be stopped because he's (supposedly) on the verge of discovering a way to simulate and beat the Light and Darkness.

The Vex can simulate Guardians physically, sure, but they can't actualize their power, not just their actions.


I'm sure there's more, but I'm too lazy to search for them.
Click to expand...
The cutscene takes place in the Infinite Forest which is where Osiris was "trapped" in so no, it's not the VoG, it's a simulation of the VoG unless there is some lore that states that the VoG is within the IF or something.

Of course but Vex also simulated the Hive magic and the Hive's worms in their body which is seen in-game both are directly connected to the Darkness. Regardless they are real or just close approximations, they still were able to simulate what they have seen from both Guardians and Hive and can simulate even if those simulations are just fake puppets.

That's a potential reason why Panoptes was a threat. attempting to force reality to match the outcome the Vex wants which would allow them to defeat both the Light and Darkness and become the Perfect Shape...somehow.

That would still help my original point out in that the VoG's timelines likely involve simulated timelines like I said before, where they simulate Guardians, Light and the Traveler but those simulations aren't entirely true as those simulations don't accurately simulate the Paracausal nature of Light, just assumptions. Using one of the lore entries you posted this idea is further backed up as it states "the Infinite Forest cannot accurately simulate Light" because paracausality throws a wrench in predictions/simulations.
 
Osiris was not trapped, never stated. The entire cutscene takes place in the VoG. Why would Osiris be suprised to see Panoptes find them in its own domain? Why are Guardians, powers and all, being simulated never brought up again if they were actually capable of doing that? Why would the Vex simulate one of their own spaces when it's the material universe they want to take over?
Your argument for the cutscene being in the Infinite Forest is full of holes.

Worms are connected to the Darkness yes, but they themselves aren't paracausal. As I said they only ever simulate basic Hive. And may I remind you that they have been studying the Hive for billions of years and have attempted to replicate their powers on numerous occasions. Them being able to simulate basic Hive attacks is not even remotely comparable to simulating the Light. There's a reason that the only time that Guardians are actually simulated it's explicitly just an approximation of their behavior, not their abilities. There's a reason that no Taken or Ascendant Hive are simulated. There's a reason that we never hear of any Ahamkara in Vex simulations. Nor any Darkness entities that nullify Light or Ghosts. It's because the Vex are unable to.

The reason given is that Panoptes was making a breakthrough based on the new data gathered from the Traveler's awakening. If they could already simulate the Light and Dark then it would alreayd be too late. Panoptes would have shared the information with the Vex collective.

First off, if it's not accurate then Praedyth would've noticed. Secondly you're nitpicking a single one of the scans I posted and just waved off the rest by saying that the simulations aren't entirely true to the original (which isn't stated or implied in any other piece of Destiny media I've come across).

On top of that you've only been adressing my claim that the Vex can't simulate the Light and you have not mentioned the Player at all.

Now if you're still going to insist that the Vex can simulate timelines that include the Light and Darkness, I'm going to have to ask to create a CRT. This is getting off-topic.
 
WHYNAUT said:
Osiris was not trapped, never stated. The entire cutscene takes place in the VoG. Why would Osiris be suprised to see Panoptes find them in its own domain? Why are Guardians, powers and all, being simulated never brought up again if they were actually capable of doing that? Why would the Vex simulate one of their own spaces when it's the material universe they want to take over?
Your argument for the cutscene being in the Infinite Forest is full of holes.

Worms are connected to the Darkness yes, but they themselves aren't paracausal. As I said they only ever simulate basic Hive. And may I remind you that they have been studying the Hive for billions of years and have attempted to replicate their powers on numerous occasions. Them being able to simulate basic Hive attacks is not even remotely comparable to simulating the Light. There's a reason that the only time that Guardians are actually simulated it's explicitly just an approximation of their behavior, not their abilities. There's a reason that no Taken or Ascendant Hive are simulated. There's a reason that we never hear of any Ahamkara in Vex simulations. Nor any Darkness entities that nullify Light or Ghosts. It's because the Vex are unable to.

The reason given is that Panoptes was making a breakthrough based on the new data gathered from the Traveler's awakening. If they could already simulate the Light and Dark then it would alreayd be too late. Panoptes would have shared the information with the Vex collective.

First off, if it's not accurate then Praedyth would've noticed. Secondly you're nitpicking a single one of the scans I posted and just waved off the rest by saying that the simulations aren't entirely true to the original (which isn't stated or implied in any other piece of Destiny media I've come across).

On top of that you've only been adressing my claim that the Vex can't simulate the Light and you have not mentioned the Player at all.

Now if you're still going to insist that the Vex can simulate timelines that include the Light and Darkness, I'm going to have to ask to create a CRT. This is getting off-topic.
Click to expand...
Osiris was not trapped, never stated

That's why I said, "trapped", he's there by his own choice to look for a way to prevent the Vex's plan which is why he created projections to look for Panoptes.

The entire cutscene takes place in the VoG. Why would Osiris be suprised to see Panoptes find them in its own domain? Why are Guardians, powers and all, being simulated never brought up again if they were actually capable of doing that? Why would the Vex simulate one of their own spaces when it's the material universe they want to take over?

"The gateway to the Infinite Forest. A place from which no one has ever returned. Not even Osiris." Directly from the first mission in the quest, not to mention Osiris directly stating they went to IF to stop Panoptes, which failed because the CoO cutscene shows the Vex adapting to Osiris stopping the simulation and seeing Sagira's light which is why Osiris yeeted her away from the VoG simulation. It makes no sense that the opening cutscene is in the actual VoG everything related to finding Osiris is in the Infinite Forest.

The reason given is that Panoptes was making a breakthrough based on the new data gathered from the Traveler's awakening. If they could already simulate the Light and Dark then it would alreayd be too late. Panoptes would have shared the information with the Vex collective.

Sure?

First off, if it's not accurate then Praedyth would've noticed. Secondly you're nitpicking a single one of the scans I posted and just waved off the rest by saying that the simulations aren't entirely true to the original (which isn't stated or implied in any other piece of Destiny media I've come across).

The scans involving Praedyth already states that he witnessed possibilities and timelines that happened, might happen, and might not happen. This goes back to my point of not every timeline he saw was alternate realities brushing up against the VoG but rather some being simulations. I'm not nitpicking scans, I just pointed out that the scan says the Infinite Forest can't accurately simulate Light and using it to reinforce my argument. An irrelevant argument because it makes no difference if the timelines created by the VoG are filled with false Guardians, Travelers, and Light or filled with actual Guardians, Traveler, and Light on one set path, the timelines would still be simulated timelines.

On top of that you've only been adressing my claim that the Vex can't simulate the Light and you have not mentioned the Player at all.

Because it's not relevant to the main point of the VoG having simulated timelines and possibilities.
 
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Allow me to address the whole "Can Vex simulate the Light" question: No, the Vex cannot simulate the Light. The Vex themselves state this:

Failsafe: The test demands we reach three data modules.

Ghost: This test was meant for humans?

Failsafe: The contents have been calibrated to challenge a Guardian, though they don't refer to you by that title.

Ghost: What do they call us?

Failsafe: "Those who wield that which we cannot simulate."

Ghost: Huh, catchy.

Lost Crew — Transcript — Ishtar Collective — Destiny Lore by subject

++ The Tangle, Nessus Failsafe: Captain, friendly Ghost? I have been wondering, recently, what became of two members of the Exodus Black crew. They left on their own, a looong time ago. Never came back. Ghost: Um, sure, Failsafe. Where do we start? Failsafe: The local Vex will have the data I...
www.ishtar-collective.net www.ishtar-collective.net

Panoptes was such a danger because he was able to "see" Sagira's Light, which meant Panoptes was close to solving how to simulate paracausal forces.

It also is the reason why the Vex never had simulated Taken within the Infinite Forest, and why Oryx himself couldn't be simulated by Quria, who could only make a boot-strap version of Aurash without any of Oryx's power. The Vex are capable of simulating anything and anyone within the bounds of causality, but are incapable of simulating Light and Darkness, primarily because the Pattern which became the Vex predates the creation of Light and Darkness, forces created to be "set aside from" or "above" the casual rules of reality.

WHYNAUT said:
Those Guardians were in the actual Vault of Glass, not the Infinite Forest. They were paused because Guardians don't usually resist time stop.
Click to expand...
WHYNAUT said:
The entire cutscene takes place in the VoG. Why would Osiris be suprised to see Panoptes find them in its own domain? Why are Guardians, powers and all, being simulated never brought up again if they were actually capable of doing that? Why would the Vex simulate one of their own spaces when it's the material universe they want to take over?
Click to expand...

Allow me my own perspective on this:

1. The scene was likely depicting the events of Vault of Glass as they canonically took place, but it was a simulation of said events. One of the reasons why Vex run simulations, to begin with, is to collect information. With Atheon's destruction, they'd presumably be running simulations of the Vault to figure out what transpired there.

In other words, they weren't running a simulation to "predict" what can happen with the Light, or trying to simulate the Light itself. They were recreating the events that took place in the Vault.

2. Osiris had been roaming the Infinite Forest for an extended period of time since then. His surprise would likely be due to the fact Panoptes had actively homed in on Osiris and Sagira's location through "seeing" Sagira's light.

3. The Vex would simulate what happened in the Vault of Glass because of how much of a blow it was to their overall efforts. They had developed ontological weapons within the Vault, and those weapons and the central Axis Mind controlling the Vault were wiped out by Guardians. Again, information on what happened there would help the Vex in the future.
 
@Catalyst75

That's fair. However if they're trying to simulate events that have actually transpired then that means they wouldn't need to simulate the Light, merely the results of the Light being used. This of course would again go against the point that Dienomite is trying to make. That Praedyth saw simulations of the Light and the Guardian.

@Dienomite22

I forgot to mention this but whether the Vex can simulate the Light or not isn't even relevant as the VoG isn't a simulation engine, but a space where the Vex are experimenting with ontological powers. Simulations are never mentioned in relation to the VoG.

Anyway I want to finish this part of the argument because:

1. We don't even necessarily disagree on Atheon's rating.

2. We're spending way too much time arguing about the worst DLC in video game history.

3. We're probably not going to be able to convince each other.


Anyway I'd like to go back to the lifting strength. Is everyone fine with Hunters and Warlock (and those who scale) getting Class 5 Lifting Strength?
 
The point I was trying to make is that the VoG is likely simulating timelines because lore entries state that Praedyth seen "possibilities" and timelines that "have happened, might happen and won't ever happen" and that being proof of the VoG containing simulations because it expresses the difference that timelines brushing up against the VoG are real timelines that exist while the lore entries about "possibilities" and timelines that "have happened, might happen and won't ever happen" aren't included in the timelines brushing up against the VoG statement because the statement only includes real realities meaning "possibilities" and timelines that "have happened, might happen and won't ever happen" could only be simulated timelines in the VoG. It makes no difference if the Vex can or can't simulate real Light, Traveler, and Guardians because we still know the timelines have physical substance because you know Vex simulations.

I'm fine with Class 5 LS changes
 
Dienomite22 said:
The point I was trying to make is that the VoG is likely simulating timelines
Click to expand...
The purpose of the Vault of Glass isn't to "simulate timelines"; it's to develop ontological weapons to manipulate reality. The Templar does this by shaping reality to match the future the Oracles foresee; the Gorgons out-right erase an entity's existence if they spot them.

Atheon has direct control over time streams within the Vault, able to send Guardians to past or future iterations of the Vault. When successful i.e. if the target is without a means to resist it like the Aegis, the targets are lost in time forever.

As for Praedyth, the nature of timelines in Destiny strongly indicates all the timelines he sees are real: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/epistemic#praedyth

There is also the fact that, in one of his message, he talks about a constant in all the timelines he has seen: Elisabeth Bray, the Exo Stranger: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/classified-30#praedyth

Within the confines of the Vault of Glass, tangible timelines are able to be manipulated by the Vex. The purpose of the Infinite Forest is to simulate different iterations of the past, present, and future.
 
On top of what Catalyst has stated, there's the fact that Praedyth has no way of knowing whether the visions he sees are actual timelines or not. He's stuck in his prison after all and he has no other knowledge on the Destiny multiverse. He can't verify his visions.
 
Okay. Thank you for the input.
 
So should what has been accepted here be applied then, or should we wait a bit further for @Wokistan ?
 
Given the amount of support the proposed changes have gotten from knowledgeable members, I think it's fine to apply.

Wokistan isn't really involved with Destiny anymore, so there's not much point to waiting for him specifically.
 
I'm reviving this thread with an important addition.

Something I've been suspecting for a while has been confirmed recently. Guardian power levels canonically vary even for individual Guardians. This has been implied before and would also explain away some situations that seemed like inconsistencies before. However, as shown by the feats that give them their current ratings, Guardians do seem capable of performing on specific levels pretty consistently. The second image also makes it clear that general gaps in power between Guardians very much do exist. This is a straightforward example of that. For most Guardians there's not a clear starting tier, so we'd only list their higher ends.
mfcXVGo.jpeg
g2yLF4B.jpeg
The relevant quotes:

"Guardians insist on treating ‘power' as a monotonically increasing value with a single dimension. Guardians will casually create ordinal ranks of the ‘power’ of their comrades when, in truth (but not in fact—Light is not constrained by facts) capability with the Light is not only a multifactor landscape but strongly and stochastically influenced by circumstantial, personal, and esoteric variables. The Light is, by definition, paracausal and obeys a logic different from physical concepts like charge, heat, or angular momentum. Any analogy to these physical measurements of power' will fail to capture the true efficacy of a Guardian."

"IKO-006 ranks in the upper fraction of the 99th percentile of assessed Warlocks on most available metrics of precision, restraint, and raw power. She is, in simplistic terms, a fifth sigma Guardian: 1 in 3.5 million. Given that millions of Guardians have been activated over the centuries since the Collapse, and assuming that performance of Guardians on these metrics is normally distributed, we would expect about ten Guardians of similar power to have existed."

So my proposal is that all Guardians get a Varies tier while listing their current ratings as their peak. E.g. "Varies, up to at least 5-C, likely 4-B" or "Varies, up to Massively Hypersonic+" for their speed.
 
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Okay. That is probably fine then.

What do the rest of you think?
 
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