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Denji VS Yuji • (8-7-1)

Phoenks

He/Him
FC/OC VS Battles
Administrator
10,652
9,346
Denji, the Chainsaw Devil

VS

Yuji Itadori, the Perfect Vessel of Sukuna

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Low 7-C Forms - Speed Equalized - Sukuna Restricted - Verse Equalized - Yuji believes the Chainsaw Devil is a Curse

Denji: 8 - @Giannysmag, @Zabazab, @noisyPitta, @SuperStar, @Robo432343, @EL_xWatcher1234x, @Naitodesu, @Epiccheev
Idatori: 7 - @LaserPrecision, @azontr, @Maitreya, @Arnoldstone18, @NotoriouSoda, @Nierre, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit
Inconclusive: 1 - @First_Witch
 
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Chainsaw Devil scales to 1.326 Kilotons and idk how many KTons Yuji scales to
From what i can tell he is baseline.

I'm going with ChainsawMan for now. He has the AP advantage which would be boosted even further thanks to his chainsaws. His increadibly high regen means he could also outlast Yuji easily.
 
I think Yuji's profile is outdated. I thought a CRT for an AP revision went through, but maybe I'm mistaken? I think Itadori wins this match-up personally, but don't count that as a vote as I don't plan to elaborate yet. It's late for me.
 
Chainsaw Devil has incredible mobility, he is capable of traversing cities by jumping around, using the saws on his feet to cling onto walls and the chains to swing around. He is also no slouch in terms of combat skills, even when he was weakened to oblivion he still could 1 v 7 Makima's Hybrid Devil army, with one of them being considered the first Devil Hunter and an excellent fighter, to the point that if there was a full out brawl between every person on the planet she would come out on top, according to Kishibe.
 
Regeneration isn't too much of an issue since Cursed Energy can directly damage souls and abstract information.

So Yuji does have a way to put him down for good if he's given the chance.
 
I would like to note that if Itadori lands a Black Flash, it's likely to just outright one-shot with it being a ^1.2 increase. While it's obviously not treated as that on the pages since it'd be outlier territory, it has shown to one-shot people several times stronger than Itadori. Regen likely wouldn't work considering he can get around that by attacking the contours of the soul similarly to how he did against Mahito. And IIRC, Cursed Energy is accepted as inducing fear and inflicting poison.

After looking at the page, only the cursing people part is accepted:
  • Pain Manipulation & Curse Manipulation (Injuries with cursed energy cause people to be automatically cursed, this creates severe consequences for normal beings, such as extreme pain, weakening of the body, becoming ill, and eventually death. Anyone who is not a sorcerer has 0 tolerance to cursed energy[10])
This is a fast acting curse too. It takes around a minute before a person is too weak to stand going by how fast it affected Maki. The fear manip is only for curses though. But I coulda swore it applied to Cursed Energy in general...
 
Given that cursed energy is a power that is very similar to how the powers in CSM work, I'd say it's a little unfair to say that curses like that of all things would have any severe effect on Denji.

Devils in CSM are pretty much formed the same way curses are, after all.

Also, while I agree that Black Flash would do significant damage, I don't know about a one-shot. When has he been able to one-shot someone much stronger than him with that? I don't recall.

And, you can't necessarily compare one person's black flash to another. Because it's a exponential increase rather than a multiplier. So the person's base strength affects it's effectiveness.
 
Hmm, currently thinking Pochita takes this.

He has the advantage in strength, mobility, regeneration, and incredible resurrection that lets him get back up "no matter how many times you kill him".

Cursed Energy's weakening effect can also be countered by pulling his ripcord to return himself to peak physical condition.
 
Yuji's ability to hit souls makes the regen kinda pointless tbf.
 
No

Yuji is not always hitting souls
Wdym no? It's what's current accepted 🤷🏽‍♂️

Also, pretty sure Yuji naturally affects the soul with his punches though. Especially in the key I'm using.

So it's definitely a factor.
 
It’s a hard fight not gonna lie, but I think imma go with Yuji.

For one Yuji does have a way to take down Denji, since he can attack the soul directly he has a way to bypass the busted regeneration.

I think Yuji’s Black Flash would be another real issue for Denji. Depending on where it hit, it may or may not one shot him (like if Yuji landed a black flash on Denji’s arm, I doubt it’d one shot him but if he landed a black flash square on Denji’s chest, then that might just kill Pochita outright.) But the bigger problem for Denji is that Yuji can just spam Black Flashes essentially, and after he’s landed one, he gets boosted to 120% his potential.

I also think Yuji is definitely the more skilled fighter here, and he also has some ‘tricks’ that could help him in battle like divergent fist to confuse the timing of his attacks.

Denji has much better mobility and ranged moves to combat Yuji that would seriously be an issue in this fight, but Yuji’s endurance is really insane, so I think it’s possible for him to pull through and overcome many of the damage Denji could potentially dish out thanks to just his insanely high pain tolerance and willing to continue fighting despite that damage. He fought a similar case where Mahito would manipulate his body to all kinds of weapons and Yuji would consistently just endure the wounds to deal even more damage. So I think it’s doable for him to win this match.
 
Wdym no? It's what's current accepted 🤷🏽‍♂️

Also, pretty sure Yuji naturally affects the soul with his punches though. Especially in the key I'm using.

So it's definitely a factor.
That's against Mahito and only applies to Mahito. Do you know how many characters he would've ragdolled if he were always boxing their souls? It's also currently accepted that only sorcerers on Nanami's level can protect their souls with CE
 
Given that cursed energy is a power that is very similar to how the powers in CSM work, I'd say it's a little unfair to say that curses like that of all things would have any severe effect on Denji.

Devils in CSM are pretty much formed the same way curses are, after all.

Also, while I agree that Black Flash would do significant damage, I don't know about a one-shot. When has he been able to one-shot someone much stronger than him with that? I don't recall.

And, you can't necessarily compare one person's black flash to another. Because it's a exponential increase rather than a multiplier. So the person's base strength affects it's effectiveness.
Power-wise... no? The two are pretty distinct.

But yeah, in terms of how they're created they're... kinda similar? Devils are created via mass fear of a person, place, or thing. Curses are just generated from negative emotions in general. So both are created by emotions I guess, but I feel we're really throwing Denji a bone here with these weak similarities imo. But in the end, it is up to you the OP to decide if you wanna equalize energy systems. It does take away a big advantage Yuji has though which makes dealing with regen that much harder.

Yeah, no problem. I gathered a compilation of Black Flash's that effectively one-shot comparable/stronger opponents, but lost that link. So I'll link one of the most memorable examples. Yuji vs Instant Spirit Body of Distorted Killing Mahito. Mahito in this form is stated to be at 200% of his strength (2x stronger than usual) and was confirmed abled to easily thrash Itadori had he not landed a Black Flash that one-shot him out of the form and caused him to run away in fear. Bear in mind that before this, Mahito was so much tougher than Itadori that Yuji's punches LITERALLY didn't damage or cause Mahito to flinch. So Black Flash can let you one-shot someone several times stronger than you that normally can't even feel your punches.

If you agree it's exponential, then wouldn't you agree that realistically it should one-shot Denji? Given that Itadori is less than 2x weaker than Denji?
 
But yeah, in terms of how they're created they're... kinda similar? Devils are created via mass fear of a person, place, or thing. Curses are just generated from negative emotions in general. So both are created by emotions I guess, but I feel we're really throwing Denji a bone here with these weak similarities imo. But in the end, it is up to you the OP to decide if you wanna equalize energy systems. It does take away a big advantage Yuji has though which makes dealing with regen that much harder.
I would personally equalize the power systems. I think the whole connection of them both being based on human emotions and ideas is strong enough for that.


Yeah, no problem. I gathered a compilation of Black Flash's that effectively one-shot comparable/stronger opponents, but lost that link. So I'll link one of the most memorable examples. Yuji vs Instant Spirit Body of Distorted Killing Mahito. Mahito in this form is stated to be at 200% of his strength (2x stronger than usual) and was confirmed abled to easily thrash Itadori had he not landed a Black Flash that one-shot him out of the form and caused him to run away in fear. Bear in mind that before this, Mahito was so much tougher than Itadori that Yuji's punches LITERALLY didn't damage or cause Mahito to flinch. So Black Flash can let you one-shot someone several times stronger than you that normally can't even feel your punches.

If you agree it's exponential, then wouldn't you agree that realistically it should one-shot Denji? Given that Itadori is less than 2x weaker than Denji?
I don't know that counts as a one-shot tbh, at least for the purposes of this fight. He didn't kill or incapacitate Mahito, just severely damaged.

Actually... On second thought the damage it would do to CSM's soul would probably be enough. So I'll agree with a one-shot.

About the exponential thing. I think that it doesn't really work for the purposes of powerscaling because it's just really hard to properly gauge.
 
I would personally equalize the power systems. I think the whole connection of them both being based on human emotions and ideas is strong enough for that.



I don't know that counts as a one-shot tbh, at least for the purposes of this fight. He didn't kill or incapacitate Mahito, just severely damaged.

Actually... On second thought the damage it would do to CSM's soul would probably be enough. So I'll agree with a one-shot.

About the exponential thing. I think that it doesn't really work for the purposes of powerscaling because it's just really hard to properly gauge.
Personally I wouldn't equalize the two since it makes things more interesting, but I can understand. They have a few notable similarities at least.

It's true Mahito wasn't incapacitated, but he was one-shot out of his transformation that would scale far further above Itadori than Denji does (Because Denji is less than 2x tougher whilst Mahito is at least 2x tougher via the stated 200% as tough statement) and was put out of fighting condition. I can show other Black Flash showings when I get on PC. Such as Mahito black flashing Todi who would have been killed in one blow had he not poured ALL of his cursed energy into the one spot where he was being punched and was still put out of fighting order by it.
 
Choso's brothers who could previously shrug off Itadori's blows:
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Was shown to have his arm blown off from a single Black Flash despite reinforcing his arm with Cursed Energy to tank it:
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Whether you want to consider that a one-shot or not is up to you. I would considering it was strong enough to blow off a reinforced limb. Thus if the blow had landed anywhere lethal, there'd have been nothing left (Such as the head or heart).

He does something identical to Mahito's arm as does Todo when using Black Flash on him.

I think it's fully safe to assume that the exponential increase of Black Flash would allow for a one-shot against Chainsaw Man who isn't even 2x tougher than Itadori. Especially if he lands a second Black Flash after that since using it once puts Itadori in the zone, letting him operate at 120% power (A 20% free buff).

Given how adept Itadori is at close range combat, I think he'd easily beat Denji down. He'd realize he heals from blood, then prevent him from drinking more. He'd also def aim to shatter his saws. And once he lands a Black Flash, it's pretty much Gojover for Denji.
 
While Black Flash is a massive boon if it occurs, it's still relatively random afaik, though Yuji tends to land it more than others. Worth mentioning, but may not even be a factor. Correct me if that's wrong though.

Pochita's recovery has been displayed as immense even without access to blood as he never actually drank any during his "rampage", and the most important ability he has is definitely his supposedly endless resurrection.

Yuji does likely have superior formal expertise in hand to hand combat, but it should be noted that Pochita has been fighting countless Devils throughout hell for at least 200+ years. Additionally Pochita's vastly superior range and LS makes it entirely possible for Pochita to snag Yuji with his chains, and line him up for a one-shot.
 
While Black Flash is a massive boon if it occurs, it's still relatively random afaik, though Yuji tends to land it more than others. Worth mentioning, but may not even be a factor. Correct me if that's wrong though.
You are correct, it is relatively random. And you are also correct about Yuji being able to tap into more often than others as it is stated he is chosen by the "Black Sparks" and during his fight against Mahito, it is stated that it almost seems like Yuji can use it at will. Because of this, I think it's actually very likely he would land it. And when he lands it once, he can land it several more times (He landed 4 against Hanami).
Pochita's recovery has been displayed as immense even without access to blood as he never actually drank any during his "rampage", and the most important ability he has is definitely his supposedly endless resurrection.
Fair enough on the regeneration. Yuji would likely aim for trying to beat them into a bloody pulp with Black Flash once he gains access to it to incapacitate him. Is there any specifics on their resurrection?
Yuji does likely have superior formal expertise in hand to hand combat, but it should be noted that Pochita has been fighting countless Devils throughout hell for at least 200+ years. Additionally Pochita's vastly superior range and LS makes it entirely possible for Pochita to snag Yuji with his chains, and line him up for a one-shot.
Experience doesn't exactly equate to skill, but yes, I'd agree Pochita is clearly skilled to a notable extent. I just don't think it's relative to how gifted Yuji has shown to be.

Superior lifting strength? Itadori is listed as Class G in LS on his profile while the highest value on Denji's page is Class 100. But I'm actually glad someone did bring up the range advantage. If Pochita attempted to use his chains like webs to wrap around Yuji, he'd simply grasp on the chains, and pull him in to create an opportunity to beat him up more.
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Tbh, the extended range with chainsaws on all 4 arms and head do give Pochita a huge advantage in H2H combat. Itadori would need to be within death hug range to box him, not to mention every blow will be potentially devastating since slashing/tearing damage means blocking or getting hit likely means a limb has become useless.
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Trying to ragdoll him using his own chains likely wouldn't work, considering Pochita can freely control them as extra limbs. He could just as easily move his own weight and maneuver himself while being pulled.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/tcbchainsawman_94_04.jpg

There's also the possibility that Chainsaw Devil is more of a Flesh Mech than Pochita's actual body, considering his true form is his heart, wich means Yuji would need to blow up his chest before he can stop chainsaw Devil
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/tcbchainsawman_88_11.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/tcbchainsawman_88_13.jpg
 
Tbh, the extended range with chainsaws on all 4 arms and head do give Pochita a huge advantage in H2H combat. Itadori would need to be within death hug range to box him, not to mention every blow will be potentially devastating since slashing/tearing damage means blocking or getting hit likely means a limb has become useless.
e530450312b734ee8787e324ebbbb844.jpg

Trying to ragdoll him using his own chains likely wouldn't work, considering Pochita can freely control them as extra limbs. He could just as easily move his own weight and maneuver himself while being pulled.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/tcbchainsawman_94_04.jpg

There's also the possibility that Chainsaw Devil is more of a Flesh Mech than Pochita's actual body, considering his true form is his heart, wich means Yuji would need to blow up his chest before he can stop chainsaw Devil
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/tcbchainsawman_88_11.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/tcbchainsawman_88_13.jpg
Sadly I can't send scans atm since I'm on mobile. However, Id like to bring Itadori's experience to light here. Yuji has ALREADY faced and easily bested someone with four arms AND a longer arm reach then him and put them to shame. Yuji would have little difficulty dealing with Pochita's four arms and extended reach. He would be quick to rid of the saws. Whether that be through a Black Flash barrage, or through gripping it and snapping it through his far greater lifting strength. All whilst weaving through his punches and landing his own whilst redirecting Pochita's attacks via Divergent Fist.

I don't quite see the control he has here besides pulling of a whip-like maneuver on an object he latched onto. This would stop Itadori from death gripping onto the chains and pulling him in to assault him with dozens of more blows.

Would destroying the Heart even work though? Doesn't Denji's level of regen cover healing something like a heart? I haven't gotten to Chainsaw Devil stuff yet, so maybe this is a weakness mentioned later or s tv idk about. But that said, that makes taking him out easier since with a well placed Black Flash, Yuji could very well explode his heart as well as leave a gaping hole in his chest where his heart used to be.
 
How good is Yuji's skill?
I ask that, cause Chainsaw Devil can fight the best fighter on the planet and come out on top, while being ganged up against other 6 guys around his level
 
Even as a JJK fan, I have to concede that Denji takes this. Even just on the base point of chainsaws vs fists (both in terms of reach and the type of damage they deal), and the fact that Yuji can't regenerate, one of these two fighters is going to be taking way more damage than the other. Denji wins.
 
Superior lifting strength? Itadori is listed as Class G in LS on his profile while the highest value on Denji's page is Class 100
That Class G value seems very dubious, the justification is simply "comparable to Mahito", but Mahito's only LS value is Class 5 for being comparable to Yuji.
 
Yuji has ALREADY faced and easily bested someone with four arms AND a longer arm reach then him and put them to shame. Yuji would have little difficulty dealing with Pochita's four arms and extended reach.
I don't think you can compare the Grasshopper curse to the Chainsaw Devil at all.

That cursed spirit was like narratively made out to be a stupid brawler and Yuji seemed to also have a hefty statistics advantage over him.

It's completely different from the way the Chainsaw Devil is portrayed as being a merciless, skilled executioner type character that destroys multiple highly skilled fighters easily.

There's also the fact that his limbs are shredding piercing weapons. They aren't like punches. When you throw a punch you can't really change the trajectory to try and sway it to a different target cause it loses a lot of power. With a chainsaw, you can move it anywhere and it's slashing through someone like butter.

If Yuji throws punches, he has to avoid the chainsaw moving towards his arms at all while he's attacking which is stupidly difficult especially when he has like DOUBLE the range. I understand he's probably got better skill but the gap isn't so much that he'd be able to overcome that advantage with "little difficultly." It is NOTHING like that grasshopper curse.
 
I don't think you can compare the Grasshopper curse to the Chainsaw Devil at all.

That cursed spirit was like narratively made out to be a stupid brawler and Yuji seemed to also have a hefty statistics advantage over him.

It's completely different from the way the Chainsaw Devil is portrayed as being a merciless, skilled executioner type character that destroys multiple highly skilled fighters easily.

There's also the fact that his limbs are shredding piercing weapons. They aren't like punches. When you throw a punch you can't really change the trajectory to try and sway it to a different target cause it loses a lot of power. With a chainsaw, you can move it anywhere and it's slashing through someone like butter.

If Yuji throws punches, he has to avoid the chainsaw moving towards his arms at all while he's attacking which is stupidly difficult especially when he has like DOUBLE the range. I understand he's probably got better skill but the gap isn't so much that he'd be able to overcome that advantage with "little difficultly." It is NOTHING like that grasshopper curse.
It wasn't made out to be a stupid brawler though? Nor did Yuji seem to have a hefty statistics advantage. It was stated that Yuji's skill far outclassed Ko-Guys skill, but he was presented as an actual threat that would employ sneaky tactics to win. It was even stated he had advantages such as a better "arm, jaw, and eyes" that are all better than humans. Itadori even noted that it wanted to keep the fight confined to close quarters since it had the ability to control all four arms independently of one another. Now, in general knowledge/communication, it was more undeveloped compared to a normal human. And once Ko-Guy was defeated, Mahito stated:
"So Ko-Guy was defeated, huh? Looks like we have a skilled sorcerer on our hands."

Ko-Guy tries going for an execution attempt right after he failed to kill Itadori in hand to hand combat since he was out skilled so badly... Granted Ko-Guy definitely isn't as impressive as Chainsaw Devil feat-wise.

I agree Chainsaw are more difficult to deal with fists, but given Itadori is wary of weapons in general, he'd like just opt for dodging and redirects the swings of the blades that attempt to cut him. Worst case scenario, Itadori uses Cursed Energy to reinforce his body to minimize the cut as much as possible. He stated he didn't fear blades as long as he steels his body with Cursed Energy when fighting Yuta (But stated it wouldn't work against Yuta who could likewise imbue a shitload of Cursed Energy into Katana). Depending on the environment, he may also just scour the environment for a weapon/object to imbue with Cursed Energy to counter the saws.

The Grasshopper had far greater range (Was taller than Yuji even when crouched over) and four arms to likewise counter Yuji's two, but was completely unable to keep up in their clash even with better eyes. I don't think Chainsaw Devil can't tag him, but he'd have difficulty doing so. Yuji would likely wait for Chainsaw Devil to engage the battle to counter and evade the blades coming towards him, and if worse comes to worst, would be willing to sacrifice a limb in order to land a devastating blow (Such as a kick, headbutt, punch, etc.). Realistically, I think he'd opt for snapping the Chainsaws and then wailing on Chainsaw Devil. Then upon realizing he can regenerate, would aim for fatal blows, such as strikes to the head and heart.

(Btw, I'd note that you're equalizing their power systems so that Cursed Energy poison doesn't kill Chainsaw Devil).
 
It wasn't made out to be a stupid brawler though? Nor did Yuji seem to have a hefty statistics advantage.
The grasshopper curses whole gag was that he wasn't "clever," no? Which to me made it seem like he isn't really that smart or skilled at all when he's fighting.

Yuji was pretty much blitzing him wasn't he? Even though the grasshopper had 4 arms. Isn't that what happened there?


I agree Chainsaw are more difficult to deal with fists, but given Itadori is wary of weapons in general, he'd like just opt for dodging and redirects the swings of the blades that attempt to cut him.
Maybe he could do this if he had some kind of bug speed or skill advantage. But dodging and redirecting is not at all a permanent solution when he's up against the Chainsaw Devil. Speed is equal and the skill gap isn't enough to allow Itadori to just continuously dodge attacks that have way more range and are way deadlier than anything he's dealt with in this key.


Worst case scenario, Itadori uses Cursed Energy to reinforce his body to minimize the cut as much as possible. He stated he didn't fear blades as long as he steels his body with Cursed Energy when fighting Yuta
That could help but chainsaws specifically are a lot more piercing than normal blades to the serrated chains that revolve. They just continually cut and cut. So it's like a sword that keeps slashing again and again.


(Btw, I'd note that you're equalizing their power systems so that Cursed Energy poison doesn't kill Chainsaw Devil).
I'm equalizing power systems because I genuinely think that they meet the requirements for that.

Also, even if I was to discard that, arguing he dies from cursed energy poison feels like a really weak argument. I could never see that happening.
 
The grasshopper curses whole gag was that he wasn't "clever," no? Which to me made it seem like he isn't really that smart or skilled at all when he's fighting.

Yuji was pretty much blitzing him wasn't he? Even though the grasshopper had 4 arms. Isn't that what happened there?
He wasn't clever yeah. But it was never stated he was inexperienced/unskilled. He just lacks general intellect. Combat-wise, he was treated as a special case (Being superior to even Semi Grade 1 Cursed Spirits in physical attributes despite being Grade 2 due to lack of Cursed Techniques). It'd be like saying Yor is unskilled because she's dumb when it comes to normal life stuff.

No? Yuji's combat skill was so much greater that he was losing a hand to hand fight without being able to land a single punch on Itadori. With the skill gap being explicitly brought up between the two. Itadori's the same guy who was stated to be better than Maki in close quarters combat. No mention of a strength/speed gap was brought up. Not that I remember anyway.
Maybe he could do this if he had some kind of bug speed or skill advantage. But dodging and redirecting is not at all a permanent solution when he's up against the Chainsaw Devil. Speed is equal and the skill gap isn't enough to allow Itadori to just continuously dodge attacks that have way more range and are way deadlier than anything he's dealt with in this key.
He doesn't need a permanent solution. He just needs enough time to realize Chainsaw Devil can regenerate. From there, he can focus on fatal blows with Black Flash.
That could help but chainsaws specifically are a lot more piercing than normal blades to the serrated chains that revolve. They just continually cut and cut. So it's like a sword that keeps slashing again and again.
Won't disagree. Albeit I think it would still slow the process down compared to if he just didn't attempt reinforcing his body at all. Especially if he uses an object lying around and reinforces that.
I'm equalizing power systems because I genuinely think that they meet the requirements for that.

Also, even if I was to discard that, arguing he dies from cursed energy poison feels like a really weak argument. I could never see that happening.
That's fine. Just note it in OP. I don't think they really meet requirements personally since one is a power system and one isn't. JJK has Cursed Spirits, Chainsaw Man doesn't have some esoteric energy system. It has esoteric creatures, but not an energy system from what I've read so far.


Why not? As far as I know, Chainsaw Devil's never shown a resistance to esoteric curse that slowly kills and decays the body (More like transmutes, but eh). I also would like to note that poison might not be the best comparison since it's listed as "Curse" manipulation. Which is a different power on the wiki. Albeit it does have similar properties, so I guess it's fair to just say poison.
 
What are Yuji's skill feats that would make him be able to consistently dodge and land blows on Pochita while in close range?
 
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