Demon King creation time frame

[karo_senpaii]

Demon King (Nanatsu no Taizai)

The Demon King is the ruler of the Demon Clan and the father of Meliodas and Zeldris. He created the Ten Commandments and waged war against the Supreme Deity and the Goddess Clan, eventually resulting in his being sealed in Purgatory. He has remained there ever since, devouring the inhabitants...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Pretty evident once you take a look at this calc that the time frame used is just not justified one bit. Even the creator of the calc admitted himself that to these beings who lived for thousands if not even millions of years , the context of "soon" is warped. For example giants like daine who live long but not that long views decades as having no time at all.

The creator uses the time frame for the sacred tree creating the sacred forest again after 20yrs as justification for the DK realm creation. Sorry I don't think there is any correlation between the 2 whatsoever. They are 2 different beings so time frame for one doesn't equate to the other, not only that but comparing the time used by one of the gods to create a forest to another creating an entire 4a realm makes no sense.

This calc should either be removed as the time frame still remains unknown or the creator should give a better justification for using the 20yrs..

AGREE: @Damage3245

 

[Damage3245]

I agree, I'm not seeing any link between the two that would justify the 20 years timeframe.

 

[Majinere566]

Agreed

 

[karo_senpaii]

I agree, I'm not seeing any link between the two that would justify the 20 years timeframe.

Can you tag one or 2 other calc members?

 

[Damage3245]

@Therefir @TheRustyOne I've been asked to tag Calc Group Members to take a look at this, please.

 

[Jey-kun52]

You were the one who obviously wanted us to take this timeframe and find a specific result, but that doesn't really concern me anymore

 

[karo_senpaii]

You were the one who obviously wanted us to take this timeframe and find a specific result, but that doesn't really concern me anymore

That's actually wrong. We were talking about chaos and not the demon king and I was like take the time frame from the end of CBL to present time to get a time frame for Camelot creation. I was then corrected that there was a better time frame for Arthur's feat. If you notice I was completely surprised that the calc being talked about in question was for the DK and not chaos.

 

[MeliodasDeUzyy]

What will it means?

 

[Makai641001]

Demon King (Nanatsu no Taizai)

The Demon King is the ruler of the Demon Clan and the father of Meliodas and Zeldris. He created the Ten Commandments and waged war against the Supreme Deity and the Goddess Clan, eventually resulting in his being sealed in Purgatory. He has remained there ever since, devouring the inhabitants...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Pretty evident once you take a look at this calc that the time frame used is just not justified one bit. Even the creator of the calc admitted himself that to these beings who lived for thousands if not even millions of years , the context of "soon" is warped. For example giants like daine who live long but not that long views decades as having no time at all.

ATP of the story they were newborn but Yeah the timeframe is a bit iffy

The creator uses the time frame for the sacred tree creating the sacred forest again after 20yrs as justification for the DK realm creation.

They are equal beings that’s why

Sorry I don't think there is any correlation between the 2 whatsoever.

There is 0 correlation Fairy forest and fairy realm aren’t the same

They are 2 different beings so time frame for one doesn't equate to the other, not only that but comparing the time used by one of the gods to create a forest to another creating an entire 4a realm makes no sense.

Yeah they are different structures

This calc should either be removed as the time frame still remains unknown or the creator should give a better justification for using the 20yrs..

We should’ve just used Neo Camelot (which is what was supposed to be used) and would give way higher results since it holds multiple 4-A structures

 

[Makai641001]

4kota happens 16 years After the end of the 2nd Holy war.
The lowest possible end for Camelot’s creation and it’s multiple 4-A structures would be 16 years and give 4-B to 4-A.

Percival was born 18 years before the current Post timeskip events, 16 years before the beginning of 4kota and died in a car accident as a newborn.

Diodora was born a few days after DK died and got poisoned by his flesh while inside of his mother.
His mother died and soon after he was led to Neo Camelot which already existed.
It’s consistent with what’s shown in the manga since Ironside took Percival’s dead body to Neo Camelot to use it as a New body for his son performing the Spirit of Life ritual.

Neo Camelot already existed DAYS maybe weeks after Arthur absorbed Chaos.

A low end would be 6 month since CBL happens 6 month After the events.

The most plausible end would be a month it’s pretty conservative.

A high end would be maybe like a week.

 

[karo_senpaii]

ATP of the story they were newborn but Yeah the timeframe is a bit iffy

They are equal beings that’s why

There is 0 correlation Fairy forest and fairy realm aren’t the same

Yeah they are different structures

We should’ve just used Neo Camelot (which is what was supposed to be used) and would give way higher results since it holds multiple 4-A structures

4kota happens 16 years After the end of the 2nd Holy war.
The lowest possible end for Camelot’s creation and it’s multiple 4-A structures would be 16 years and give 4-B to 4-A.

Percival was born 18 years before the current Post timeskip events, 16 years before the beginning of 4kota and died in a car accident as a newborn.

Diodora was born a few days after DK died and got poisoned by his flesh while inside of his mother.
His mother died and soon after he was led to Neo Camelot which already existed.
It’s consistent with what’s shown in the manga since Ironside took Percival’s dead body to Neo Camelot to use it as a New body for his son performing the Spirit of Life ritual.

Neo Camelot already existed DAYS maybe weeks after Arthur absorbed Chaos.

A low end would be 6 month since CBL happens 6 month After the events.

The most plausible end would be a month it’s pretty conservative.

A high end would be maybe like a week.

That can be done in a different thread tbh. A calc can be made and a calc discussion can be created for it

 

[karo_senpaii]

Bump

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Demon King (Nanatsu no Taizai)

The Demon King is the ruler of the Demon Clan and the father of Meliodas and Zeldris. He created the Ten Commandments and waged war against the Supreme Deity and the Goddess Clan, eventually resulting in his being sealed in Purgatory. He has remained there ever since, devouring the inhabitants...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Pretty evident once you take a look at this calc that the time frame used is just not justified one bit. Even the creator of the calc admitted himself that to these beings who lived for thousands if not even millions of years , the context of "soon" is warped. For example giants like daine who live long but not that long views decades as having no time at all.

The creator uses the time frame for the sacred tree creating the sacred forest again after 20yrs as justification for the DK realm creation. Sorry I don't think there is any correlation between the 2 whatsoever. They are 2 different beings so time frame for one doesn't equate to the other, not only that but comparing the time used by one of the gods to create a forest to another creating an entire 4a realm makes no sense.

This calc should either be removed as the time frame still remains unknown or the creator should give a better justification for using the 20yrs..

AGREE: @Damage3245

I see no reason to remove the calculation. In fact, the narrator says it happened in a short time, so it doesn’t make sense to argue that DK’s or Diane’s time perception affects that. My calculation misses the point by suggesting we don't know whose perspective that “short time” refers to. However, Galand, who is nearly a thousand years old, refers to himself as old, and Diane, at 750, is said by Nakaba to be the same age as Elizabeth (16 years old). In other words, time passes faster for Demons than it does for Giants. To me, 20 years still seems like an extremely lowball estimate, but since I don’t care that much about it, using 3000 years is fine, especially since the same narrator said that’s considered a long time.

Using 3000 years, the feat remains 4-B, just slightly lower. So it doesn’t significantly change the scaling — from 2.674e+54J to 1.78e+52J (from 26.74 Gigatons to 425.430 Megafoes)

It would have been good if that had been sent in the general discussion thread of the verse.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I see no reason to remove the calculation. In fact, the narrator says it happened in a short time, so it doesn’t make sense to argue that DK’s or Diane’s time perception affects that. My calculation misses the point by suggesting we don't know whose perspective that “short time” refers to. However, Galand, who is nearly a thousand years old, refers to himself as old, and Diane, at 750, is said by Nakaba to be the same age as Elizabeth (16 years old). In other words, time passes faster for Demons than it does for Giants. To me, 20 years still seems like an extremely lowball estimate, but since I don’t care that much about it, using 3000 years is fine, especially since the same narrator said that’s considered a long time.

Using 3000 years, the feat remains 4-B, just slightly lower. So it doesn’t significantly change the scaling — from 2.674e+54J to 1.78e+52J (from 26.74 Gigatons to 425.430 Megafoes)

It would have been good if that had been sent in the general discussion thread of the verse.

The narrator is saying soon in context of the creation of the world itself. Look at it, "chaos created the world, soon the goddess created the goddess clan and the demon king the demon world".
If chaos took a billion years to create the world then even something like 10000 years frankly is soon after. There's just too much speculation to assume a time frame. Also 3000yrs isn't a combat applicable time frame at this point per wiki standards.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

The narrator is saying soon in context of the creation of the world itself. Look at it, "chaos created the world, soon the goddess created the goddess clan and the demon king the demon world".

This is a lie. I would really like to know why you have altered the structure of the text so that what you say makes sense is literally this and it refers to the creation of dimensions:

"When Chaos first created this world, it gave birth to the Supreme Deity and the Demon King, and thirdly, the Divine Tree… Before long/soon, the Supreme Deity created the Celestial World (Tenkai) and the Goddess Tribe, the Demon King created the Demon World (Makai) and the Demon Tribe, and the Divine Tree created the Fairy World and the Fairy Tribe"

If chaos took a billion years to create the world then even something like 10000 years frankly is soon after.

He definitely didn't, but from what I can see, soon is used for things that happen in a short time.

There's just too much speculation to assume a time frame.

There is no speculation to establish the time frame. The narrator says that it will happen in a short time and this same narrator thinks 3,000 years is a long time, this is simple and direct.

Also 3000yrs isn't a combat applicable time frame at this point per wiki standards.

You're completely wrong, the Wiki says it needs to be in a short amount of time (a quote we have), to scale to the WHOLE RESULT of the creation, like... This happened for a while with the verse you support, I really don't see this being a mistake or lack of knowledge

Lastly, the creation of the object(s) in question needs to happen within a reasonably short timeframe for the whole result to apply to the Attack Potency.

 

[Trihexa102]

isn't chaos born from the star's so shouldn't it be unlikely he created the universe, as it predates him or something.

 

[Majinere566]

That’s not a point here.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

isn't chaos born from the star's so shouldn't it be unlikely he created the universe, as it predates him or something.

I don't think this has ever been proposed by an NNT supporter on this wiki.

Chaos was born in purgatory and created the universe where the series takes place, but it is only between the get

 

[karo_senpaii]

This is a lie. I would really like to know why you have altered the structure of the text so that what you say makes sense is literally this and it refers to the creation of dimensions:



He definitely didn't, but from what I can see, soon is used for things that happen in a short time.

There is no speculation to establish the time frame. The narrator says that it will happen in a short time and this same narrator thinks 3,000 years is a long time, this is simple and direct.

You're completely wrong, the Wiki says it needs to be in a short amount of time (a quote we have), to scale to the WHOLE RESULT of the creation, like... This happened for a while with the verse you support, I really don't see this being a mistake or lack of knowledge

Straight up telling me I'm lying is just rude and just makes me not want to continue this decision.

My view point is this
1. The original cal is wrong and that's what the thread is for.

2. Even if I'm going to entertain what you're saying further, the "soon" there is the time between when they were born and when they started creating their own realm. Like if I say "soon after a baby was born it cried" that literally doesn't say anything about how long the baby cried . It just simply tells us that there wasn't too much time between when the baby was born till when it started crying , a baby can be born now and cry 10secs after it was born and then go on to cry for a whole day and I'll still say "soon after it was born it cried"

Also a narrator is not some robot. It does speak a lot based on the character perspective. The people participating in the holy war is everyone except the gods themselves. Of course he is going to say 3k years is a damn long time for them coz it is. The gods themselves have nothing to do with it.

Finally stop bringing other verse. And literally I've never been involved in a verse that used 3000 years for a creation calc to scale it to combat

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Finally stop bringing other verse. And literally I've never been involved in a verse that used 3000 years for a creation calc to scale it to combat

I'll be free later and I'll answer the rest later, but it's not about bringing up other verses here, you literally summed up the entire answer to that. I was referring to things like time-consuming creation, I thought I was clear

 

[karo_senpaii]

Bump

 

[karo_senpaii]

Bump

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Even if I'm going to entertain what you're saying further, the "soon" there is the time between when they were born and when they started creating their own realm. Like if I say "soon after a baby was born it cried" that literally doesn't say anything about how long the baby cried . It just simply tells us that there wasn't too much time between when the baby was born till when it started crying , a baby can be born now and cry 10secs after it was born and then go on to cry for a whole day and I'll still say "soon after it was born it cried"

Actually, the text is simply stating that shortly after his "birth," he had already created the Demon World. In other words, there is a short interval between the Demon King's emergence and the complete creation of the Demon Realm. You're trying to argue that he merely began creating shortly afterward, but the text clearly says he created — meaning the process was already finished. The Japanese text supports this: it uses the verb 造り上げた (tsukuriageta), which conveys the idea of "having made or created something from start to finish" or "having completed a task or project." It's also worth noting that the Demon World predates the Giants, who were created by Chaos after the divine beings. In this context, 20 years or 3000 years would be extremely long spans of time, especially considering that the narrator is presenting the events in a way that makes sense to the reader. And for the reader, 20 years is not a short time — so we can confidently conclude that the interval was shorter than that. Furthermore, the fanbook states that Chaos created the divine beings and the other races with a single intention, which reinforces the idea of an instantaneous creation.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Actually, the text is simply stating that shortly after his "birth," he had already created the Demon World. In other words, there is a short interval between the Demon King's emergence and the complete creation of the Demon Realm. You're trying to argue that he merely began creating shortly afterward, but the text clearly says he created — meaning the process was already finished. The Japanese text supports this: it uses the verb 造り上げた (tsukuriageta), which conveys the idea of "having made or created something from start to finish" or "having completed a task or project." It's also worth noting that the Demon World predates the Giants, who were created by Chaos after the divine beings. In this context, 20 years or 3000 years would be extremely long spans of time, especially considering that the narrator is presenting the events in a way that makes sense to the reader. And for the reader, 20 years is not a short time — so we can confidently conclude that the interval was shorter than that. Furthermore, the fanbook states that Chaos created the divine beings and the other races with a single intention, which reinforces the idea of an instantaneous creation.

That's not how English works. Created in this context is understood as a punctual English. It doesn't denote past tence as in finished events like you think, it's actually just used as verb to denote the start of even.



Like it's normally in English for stuff like this . Let me give an example, I did before but lemme give another.

The comedian stepped on stage and soon they laughed. This is not telling you that they laughed briefly for a short period. The soon here is the time interval between when the comedian stepped on stage and the laughing commenced.


Something like "the comedian stepped on stage, soon they laughed briefly" . At that point the duration of the laugh itself has been given.


Now applying it here, chaos created the deities, soon the demon king created his realm.

The statement is just telling you that there was not a long time between demon kings birth and when he started creation. Like this is normal in English, idk what to tell you again.


Chaos creating the giants after the demon king does nothing to explain the time frame, I don't know why you brought that up.

The last scan I'm simply not seeing the instant creation by chaos on any translation in that scan

 

[Makai641001]

That's not how English works. Created in this context is understood as a punctual English. It doesn't denote past tence as in finished events like you think, it's actually just used as verb to denote the start of even.



Like it's normally in English for stuff like this . Let me give an example, I did before but lemme give another.

The comedian stepped on stage and soon they laughed. This is not telling you that they laughed briefly for a short period. The soon here is the time interval between when the comedian stepped on stage and the laughing commenced.


Something like "the comedian stepped on stage, soon they laughed briefly" . At that point the duration of the laugh itself has been given.


Now applying it here, chaos created the deities, soon the demon king created his realm.

The statement is just telling you that there was not a long time between demon kings birth and when he started creation. Like this is normal in English, idk what to tell you again.


Chaos creating the giants after the demon king does nothing to explain the time frame, I don't know why you brought that up.

The last scan I'm simply not seeing the instant creation by chaos on any translation in that scan

造り上げた Is a Ta form that suggests past tense so in fact the text would mean that soon after, they had built up their worlds.

 

[karo_senpaii]

造り上げた Is a Ta form that suggests past tense so in fact the text would mean that soon after, they had built up their worlds.

I'm not disputing it's past tense. I'm just telling you that's not how verbs work.
The baby was born, soon after it cried.

That doesn't mean the baby didn't cry for long, it means it wasn't long after the baby was born it started the crying. The duration of the crying is unknown.

That's how verbs work, you don't just single out past tense of verbs in a sentence and claim it means all events have been concluded

 

[Demon_Lord18]

That's not how English works. Created in this context is understood as a punctual English. It doesn't denote past tence as in finished events like you think, it's actually just used as verb to denote the start of even.



Like it's normally in English for stuff like this . Let me give an example, I did before but lemme give another.

The comedian stepped on stage and soon they laughed. This is not telling you that they laughed briefly for a short period. The soon here is the time interval between when the comedian stepped on stage and the laughing commenced.


Something like "the comedian stepped on stage, soon they laughed briefly" . At that point the duration of the laugh itself has been given.


Now applying it here, chaos created the deities, soon the demon king created his realm.

The statement is just telling you that there was not a long time between demon kings birth and when he started creation. Like this is normal in English, idk what to tell you again.


Chaos creating the giants after the demon king does nothing to explain the time frame, I don't know why you brought that up.

The last scan I'm simply not seeing the instant creation by chaos on any translation in that scan

You're simply ignoring the fact that "created" means the action was completed, and you keep insisting it only refers to the beginning — even after I showed that in Japanese, the verb also indicates that the creation was finished. You're ignoring the fact that Y was created shortly after the existence of X. Given that, I see no reason to continue this discussion, so, this is my final message here.

 

[karo_senpaii]

You're simply ignoring the fact that "created" means the action was completed, and you keep insisting it only refers to the beginning — even after I showed that in Japanese, the verb also indicates that the creation was finished. You're ignoring the fact that Y was created shortly after the existence of X. Given that, I see no reason to continue this discussion, so, this is my final message here.

Ask any English tutor , speaker ,AI , anything you can think of. They'll tell you that's not how verbs work. If course he isn't still creating till now. At some point it was completed. But the soon there was simply for the time between when the DK was born to the start of creation.

 

[Makai641001]

Ask any English tutor , speaker ,AI , anything you can think of. They'll tell you that's not how verbs work. If course he isn't still creating till now. At some point it was completed. But the soon there was simply for the time between when the DK was born to the start of creation.

I’m not native but wouldn’t « they had created » mean that soon After they were born the creation was finished

Before long means it happens very fast After they were born.

They had created is past perfect and would mean that the creation was over « before long »

 

[karo_senpaii]

I’m not native but wouldn’t « they had created » mean that soon After they were born the creation was finished

Before long means it happens very fast After they were born.

They had created is past perfect and would mean that the creation was over « before long »

You're actually right. But "had " is not present here.
Like you can see how clearly it is that "had" in this hypothetical is attached to the creation itself

 

[Makai641001]

You're actually right. But "had " is not present here.
Like you can see how clearly it is that "had" in this hypothetical is attached to the creation itself

The past tense is on the Creation part of the sentence so Yeah it would be had created

 

[Bossbrosish]

Demon King (Nanatsu no Taizai)

The Demon King is the ruler of the Demon Clan and the father of Meliodas and Zeldris. He created the Ten Commandments and waged war against the Supreme Deity and the Goddess Clan, eventually resulting in his being sealed in Purgatory. He has remained there ever since, devouring the inhabitants...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Pretty evident once you take a look at this calc that the time frame used is just not justified one bit. Even the creator of the calc admitted himself that to these beings who lived for thousands if not even millions of years , the context of "soon" is warped. For example giants like daine who live long but not that long views decades as having no time at all.

The creator uses the time frame for the sacred tree creating the sacred forest again after 20yrs as justification for the DK realm creation. Sorry I don't think there is any correlation between the 2 whatsoever. They are 2 different beings so time frame for one doesn't equate to the other, not only that but comparing the time used by one of the gods to create a forest to another creating an entire 4a realm makes no sense.

This calc should either be removed as the time frame still remains unknown or the creator should give a better justification for using the 20yrs..

AGREE: @Damage3245

So if this gets enough agrees they'll all just go back to their previous tiers?

 

[Makai641001]

So if this gets enough agrees they'll all just go back to their previous tiers?

I mean if we look at how this thread is going we are closer to an upgrade than anything else.

The statement is pretty clearly using a Ta form that indicate past soon after their birth they had built up their structures.

20 years is a pretty cool lowball for newborn beings especially when loads of other creations are instant. (Grace dimensions, Chaos Staff dimensions, Cath’s etc…)

If anything we have Neo Camelot a structure that holds multiple Multi Solar system spaces and would have between 1 week to a month in terms of timeframe.

 

[Igneel]

bro low balled it. He used kings perception of time of him saying 20 yrs is a short time but that would be Him presupposing that king is the narrator and he also used Diane as to show that short time could mean 200yrs but that`s only the case if u presuppose that Diane is the narrator which he has to prove. We also know thanks to Thetis, that king and Diane’s perception of time is loose in ch 137 page 17, meaning they are not reliable and we know that long lived beings don’t have this issue like the demon clan ban Meliodas goddesses ect, all of there perception of time is normal we also have Meliodas say that 2 days is not enough time when he was talking to Zeldris about geting the commandments and Meliodas has been around 3000+yrs. we also see Diane and king get dates mixed up when it came to there wedding which is why Meliodas and Elizabeth missed it because they told him a different date and they forgot about it. And based on what we hear and know from the anime the narrator would be a human someone outside of the 7ds frame work, And since it’s the author that wrote the novel we can say that it’s based on the author’s human perspective when he says not too long ect. so i think saying its 20 yrs is not accurate nor would any normal being with normal perception of time would consider 20 yrs a short time

 

[Makai641001]

bro low balled it. He used kings perception of time of him saying 20 yrs is a short time but that would be Him presupposing that king is the narrator and he also used Diane as to show that short time could mean 200yrs but that`s only the case if u presuppose that Diane is the narrator which he has to prove. We also know thanks to Thetis, that king and Diane’s perception of time is loose in ch 137 page 17, meaning they are not reliable and we know that long lived beings don’t have this issue like the demon clan ban Meliodas goddesses ect, all of there perception of time is normal we also have Meliodas say that 2 days is not enough time when he was talking to Zeldris about geting the commandments and Meliodas has been around 3000+yrs. we also see Diane and king get dates mixed up when it came to there wedding which is why Meliodas and Elizabeth missed it because they told him a different date and they forgot about it. And based on what we hear and know from the anime the narrator would be a human someone outside of the 7ds frame work, And since it’s the author that wrote the novel we can say that it’s based on the author’s human perspective when he says not too long ect. so i think saying its 20 yrs is not accurate nor would any normal being with normal perception of time would consider 20 yrs a short time

That’s the point of a Lowball.

20 years is a cool low end it grants 4-B.

 

[Kachon123]

The 20 year timeframe doesn't work even for a low end because it's derived from the Sacred Tree's reconstruction of the Fairy King Forest. The Fairy King Forest is not the Fairy Realm, which the only thing that could be used to compare to the Demon Realm as the Demon King and Sacred Tree are relative beings.

 

[Igneel]

That’s the point of a Lowball.

20 years is a cool low end it grants 4-B.

Mid ball is more accurate a low ball is less accurate and since her makes a lot of presumption it is flawed why use 20 yrs from someone who doesn’t even perceive time properly lol

 

[karo_senpaii]

I mean if we look at how this thread is going we are closer to an upgrade than anything else.

The statement is pretty clearly using a Ta form that indicate past soon after their birth they had built up their structures.

20 years is a pretty cool lowball for newborn beings especially when loads of other creations are instant. (Grace dimensions, Chaos Staff dimensions, Cath’s etc…)

If anything we have Neo Camelot a structure that holds multiple Multi Solar system spaces and would have between 1 week to a month in terms of timeframe.

Nobody should be compared to chaos NGL at least not at this point.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

The 20 year timeframe doesn't work even for a low end because it's derived from the Sacred Tree's reconstruction of the Fairy King Forest. The Fairy King Forest is not the Fairy Realm, which the only thing that could be used to compare to the Demon Realm as the Demon King and Sacred Tree are relative beings.

The 3,000-year time span is still valid for an extreme lowball estimate in the calculation. Either way, the feat remains 4-B, just slightly lower.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

So if this gets enough agrees they'll all just go back to their previous tiers?

We could still have some characters at level 4-B