Demon King creation time frame

[Makai641001]

I mean just coz things didn't go your way doesn't mean you should say stuff like this but if you don't wanna wait then no problem

No need to wait, no one will change their mind.

I didn’t say anything remotely close to harsh.

Y’all just discard entirely a statement indicating a short tf despite us giving an extremely conservative end that narratively fits.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Well I guess the thread has been approved. @Demon_Lord18 , you'd probably be the best person to reverse the changes. Though for good measure I'm going to wait till tomorrow

According to Finepoint, NNT requires three approvals for something to pass, so I don’t think this can be applied yet. Would it be necessary to make another CRT, or would simply reverting be enough?

 

[Makai641001]

According to Finepoint, NNT requires three approvals for something to pass, so I don’t think this can be applied yet. Would it be necessary to make another CRT, or would simply reverting be enough?

You know what will happen we should close this and open a crt for Neo camelot

 

[Demon_Lord18]

I went to Setto’s wall. Your knowledge as a CGM and translation assistant will be a great help here.

 

[karo_senpaii]

According to Finepoint, NNT requires three approvals for something to pass, so I don’t think this can be applied yet. Would it be necessary to make another CRT, or would simply reverting be enough?

That's for content revision and not calc discussion. Also naa a crt won't be necessary as it's just removing a calc

 

[Makai641001]

That doesn't mean anything to me.

What does "soon" mean? 1 second, 1 day, 1 year, 10 years, or maybe 100 years? There's no stated timeframe for this feat, so I don't see what this means.

Unless you bring out new and solid information, you aren't changing my stance here.

Dunno if it helps but the narrator states that 3000 years is a long time in the same exact panel that explains the creations happened quickly.

« And, as if guided by the power of that love, gaining the strength of the friends who had gathered around them, they finally defeated the Demon King, ended the Holy War, and put an end to the long, long curse. »

The curse lasted 3000 years, a long long time.

This is fully grown sacred tree (It covers the entire sky across the fairy realm) this is sacred tree once it’s dimension was created

The calculation mentions the fact that the tree was destroyed 20 years ago and grew back to the same size it was after growing for 20 years

So either we follow the novel narration that states in the exact same page:
-Creation happens quickly (Soon after their birth they completed it)
-3000 years stated to be « a long, long time »

Else we follow the sacred tree growth timeframe:
-Direct visual confirmation about Sacred tree not being fully grown when he finished his dimension + race
-Direct visual confirmation about Sacred tree growing the exact same size 20 years after it’s complete destruction.

Either 3000 years else 20 years.

 

[Bossbrosish]

According to Finepoint, NNT requires three approvals for something to pass, so I don’t think this can be applied yet. Would it be necessary to make another CRT, or would simply reverting be enough?

Isn't it like three if it's a major change, and around one vote needed if it's something minor? Since this is a calc thread and not a CRT, I believe two votes would be the minimum requirements for this to be applied.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Isn't it like three if it's a major change, and around one vote needed if it's something minor?

No

Since this is a calc thread and not a CRT, I believe two votes would be the minimum requirements for this to be applied.

This thread affects almost every character in the verse, so it's a big deal and since NNT is controversial/popular, it needs 3 approvals

 

[Bossbrosish]

Bumping this

 

[Makai641001]

Dunno if it helps but the narrator states that 3000 years is a long time in the same exact panel that explains the creations happened quickly.

« And, as if guided by the power of that love, gaining the strength of the friends who had gathered around them, they finally defeated the Demon King, ended the Holy War, and put an end to the long, long curse. »

The curse lasted 3000 years, a long long time.

This is fully grown sacred tree (It covers the entire sky across the fairy realm) this is sacred tree once it’s dimension was created

The calculation mentions the fact that the tree was destroyed 20 years ago and grew back to the same size it was after growing for 20 years

So either we follow the novel narration that states in the exact same page:
-Creation happens quickly (Soon after their birth they completed it)
-3000 years stated to be « a long, long time »

Else we follow the sacred tree growth timeframe:
-Direct visual confirmation about Sacred tree not being fully grown when he finished his dimension + race
-Direct visual confirmation about Sacred tree growing the exact same size 20 years after it’s complete destruction.

Either 3000 years else 20 years.

I brought up a few things that might be interesting regarding Manga visual confirmations

 

[karo_senpaii]

Dunno if it helps but the narrator states that 3000 years is a long time in the same exact panel that explains the creations happened quickly.

« And, as if guided by the power of that love, gaining the strength of the friends who had gathered around them, they finally defeated the Demon King, ended the Holy War, and put an end to the long, long curse. »

The curse lasted 3000 years, a long long time.

This is fully grown sacred tree (It covers the entire sky across the fairy realm) this is sacred tree once it’s dimension was created

The calculation mentions the fact that the tree was destroyed 20 years ago and grew back to the same size it was after growing for 20 years

So either we follow the novel narration that states in the exact same page:
-Creation happens quickly (Soon after their birth they completed it)
-3000 years stated to be « a long, long time »

Else we follow the sacred tree growth timeframe:
-Direct visual confirmation about Sacred tree not being fully grown when he finished his dimension + race
-Direct visual confirmation about Sacred tree growing the exact same size 20 years after it’s complete destruction.

Either 3000 years else 20 years.

My stance on the 3000 years should be pretty clear by now . For the other part but sorry do you genuinely look at the scan of the fairy tree as nothing but just a thought sketch to give an idea of what the lady of the lake was talking about?

You can see a few clouds and the the supreme deity and a few goddesses there , same way the demon king is just shown with a few demons. That drawing is clearly a sketch and shouldn't be used as evidence to show that the tree wasn't fully grown when the fairy realm was created.

Not to mention that can be attributed to the sacred tree just being young in appearance as opposed to years later where it would be fully grown. The forest that the fire from a demon burnt down, it growing back along with the tree is more akin to regeneration coz honestly it was ban feeding it with his blood with regenerative properties.

 

[Damage3245]

This thread affects almost every character in the verse, so it's a big deal and since NNT is controversial/popular, it needs 3 approvals

Those are the rules for Content Revision threads, technically. Calc Group threads don't necessarily need that much.

 

[Makai641001]

My stance on the 3000 years should be pretty clear by now .

New evidence was shown, 3000 is narratively a long time opposed to their creations in the exact same page

For the other part but sorry do you genuinely look at the scan of the fairy tree as nothing but just a thought sketch to give an idea of what the lady of the lake was talking about?

The tree was litteraly shown as a seed and then grew up a bit.

The author willingly showed growth when he showed the finished dimensions.

You can see a few clouds and the the supreme deity and a few goddesses there , same way the demon king is just shown with a few demons.

Yeah how does that go against my point ?

It shows their realms and races i’m not discussing that but their appearance which isn’t inconsistant with the manga showings

That drawing is clearly a sketch and shouldn't be used as evidence to show that the tree wasn't fully grown when the fairy realm was created.

At this point it’s just denying visual evidence.

You are assuming it’s a sketch while it’s just a view of each god in each realm with all their appearance being consistant showings

Not to mention that can be attributed to the sacred tree just being young in appearance as opposed to years later where it would be fully grown.

Fully grown sacred tree covers the sky across the whole realm

The forest that the fire from a demon burnt down, it growing back along with the tree is more akin to regeneration coz honestly it was ban feeding it with his blood with regenerative properties.

You do realise that ban giving it blood is just giving it back the youth fountain that it had previously CONSTANTLY which means it slowed it’s growth by a lot

Parts of their powers can instantly create dimensions containing stars but yeah they surely take years to create their realms

 

[karo_senpaii]

New evidence was shown, 3000 is narratively a long time opposed to their creations in the exact same page


The tree was litteraly shown as a seed and then grew up a bit.

The author willingly showed growth when he showed the finished dimensions.

Yeah how does that go against my point ?

It shows their realms and races i’m not discussing that but their appearance which isn’t inconsistant with the manga showings

At this point it’s just denying visual evidence.

You are assuming it’s a sketch while it’s just a view of each god in each realm with all their appearance being consistant showings


Fully grown sacred tree covers the sky across the whole realm


You do realise that ban giving it blood is just giving it back the youth fountain that it had previously CONSTANTLY which means it slowed it’s growth by a lot

Parts of their powers can instantly create dimensions containing stars but yeah they surely take years to create their realms

You admit and agreeing that the realms in that picture wasn't drawn to show their full size but is clearly just a sketch.. That already begs the question of if anything in that panel should be taken as drawn to size. If the author wanted to draw the sacred tree in it's full size it would definitely not contain in that manga panel along side the other realms he drew. That's just a rough sketch to give you a brief idea of what the lady of the lake was talking about.

The point about ban giving it the fountain of youth back. Maybe I'm passing my point along well..
If you are right and the sacred tree was not fully grown when the realm was complete it would be because the sacred tree was still quite young then .
What you're doing is comparing the sacred tree growing in age to recovering itself after being destroyed.
That's comparing regen or ressurection to maturing.. something died, it then took a year for it to come back to normal, tbh I'm not gonna compare it to how long it took it to reach it's full growth when it was just born.. I'd take the first as ressurection and the latter as maturing in age

 

[Makai641001]

You admit and agreeing that the realms in that picture wasn't drawn to show their full size but is clearly just a sketch..

I just said it shows each god in their dimensions along their races.

That already begs the question of if anything in that panel should be taken as drawn to size.

It is drawn to size Nakaba took time to show the tree as a seed then partially grown.

If the author wanted to draw the sacred tree in it's full size it would definitely not contain in that manga panel along side the other realms he drew.

That's just a rough sketch to give you a brief idea of what the lady of the lake was talking about.

That’s just an ad lapidem fallacy

The point about ban giving it the fountain of youth back. Maybe I'm passing my point along well..

So you would compare having CONSTANT input from the fountain to Ban going there once in a while

If you are right and the sacred tree was not fully grown when the realm was complete it would be because the sacred tree was still quite young then .

Which would mean he created the dimension fast enough to appear as a young tree once the creation was completed.

What you're doing is comparing the sacred tree growing in age to recovering itself after being destroyed.

That's comparing regen or ressurection to maturing.. something died, it then took a year for it to come back to normal, tbh I'm not gonna compare it to how long it took it to reach it's full growth when it was just born.. I'd take the first as ressurection and the latter as maturing in age

Both are maturing in age
The seed was planted the exact same way.
That’s a tree it grew back.
And it completed it’s creation while being equally grown as his 20 years old self.

We have:
- Statement showing the creations happened in a quick timeframe.
-Visual confirmation of when it ended the dimensions.
-Fragments of the gods power grants the ability to insta create dimensions containing suns etc…
-Short timeframe being consistant with other showings like Neo Camelot’s creation, Chaos staffs creations etc…

Just ignoring evidence and saying « it’s a sketch » isn’t proof that would go against the point.

 

[karo_senpaii]

The amount of contradictions in your points just make me feel like there's no point to drag this out. You've said your piece. Let staffs vote. Also drop your scan for instant creation of dimensions with suns

I just said it shows each god in their dimensions along their races.


It is drawn to size Nakaba took time to show the tree as a seed then partially grown.



That’s just an ad lapidem fallacy

So you would compare having CONSTANT input from the fountain to Ban going there once in a while


Which would mean he created the dimension fast enough to appear as a young tree once the creation was completed.


Both are maturing in age
The seed was planted the exact same way.
That’s a tree it grew back.
And it completed it’s creation while being equally grown as his 20 years old self.

We have:
- Statement showing the creations happened in a quick timeframe.
-Visual confirmation of when it ended the dimensions.
-Fragments of the gods power grants the ability to insta create dimensions containing suns etc…
-Short timeframe being consistant with other showings like Neo Camelot’s creation, Chaos staffs creations etc…

Just ignoring evidence and saying « it’s a sketch » isn’t proof that would go against the point.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Those are the rules for Content Revision threads, technically. Calc Group threads don't necessarily need that much.

Then I'll make the changes to the profiles

edit: I won't be able to do that now

 

[Demon_Lord18]

The amount of contradictions in your points just make me feel like there's no point to drag this out. You've said your piece. Let staffs vote. Also drop your scan for instant creation of dimensions with suns

Spoiler: BOS Meliodas 4-A

Chandler covered the area where the Sins were with his darkness. As we can see, there is a moon and a starry sky within the darkness created by Chandler. And yes, this is Chandler's darkness and not the magic that turns day into night, as the sky's coloration is clearly different, and we can see the stars in his darkness. It might be similar to what the Vampire King did by covering an area with darkness, within which there was a starry sky.

Izraf covered the castle of Edinburgh with his darkness, and it is possible to observe a space with a moon and a starry sky. He also distorted the space to prevent entry.

 

[Makai641001]

The amount of contradictions in your points just make me feel like there's no point to drag this out.

ok

You've said your piece. Let staffs vote.

nice so you can’t disprove any of these points without assuming unnecessary entities in your reasonning

Also drop your scan for instant creation of dimensions with suns

Grudge of Edimburg end of part 2 chaos staff
God’s domain

 

[karo_senpaii]

Spoiler: BOS Meliodas 4-A

Chandler covered the area where the Sins were with his darkness. As we can see, there is a moon and a starry sky within the darkness created by Chandler. And yes, this is Chandler's darkness and not the magic that turns day into night, as the sky's coloration is clearly different, and we can see the stars in his darkness. It might be similar to what the Vampire King did by covering an area with darkness, within which there was a starry sky.

Izraf covered the castle of Edinburgh with his darkness, and it is possible to observe a space with a moon and a starry sky. He also distorted the space to prevent entry.

All of this can still be true if they just blocked out the suns light with their darkness. Kinda how you can still see stars in the night. This is extremely weak if even called evidence at all

 

[karo_senpaii]

ok

nice so you can’t disprove any of these points without assuming unnecessary entities in your reasonning

Grudge of Edimburg end of part 2 chaos staff
God’s domain

I haven't watched grudge of Edinburgh so you'd actually have to link the feat

 

[Damage3245]

All of this can still be true if they just blocked out the suns light with their darkness. Kinda how you can still see stars in the night. This is extremely weak if even called evidence at all

I agree.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

All of this can still be true if they just blocked out the suns light with their darkness. Kinda how you can still see stars in the night. This is extremely weak if even called evidence at all

So you're saying that darkness is dense enough to block out the light of the Sun, but it can't block out the light of stars thousands of light years away?

 

[Demon_Lord18]

All of this can still be true if they just blocked out the suns light with their darkness. Kinda how you can still see stars in the night.

Man, I expected a better answer than that. Let’s do a simple exercise:

Chandler blocked the sunlight: If your answer is yes, then all of Britain should have been in darkness (or at least most of it). But we can clearly see that’s not the case. In fact, it was still daytime in Camelot. This image also reinforces how weak the hypothesis is that he actually blocked out the Sun.

Chandler covered the sky with his darkness and blocked the Sun’s light, which is why stars were visible: That’s also incorrect. It would be like placing a dark mass in the sky above your head and expecting to see stars just because it blocked sunlight. That doesn’t make sense, since this mass would also block light coming from the stars.

One detail that makes it impossible for him to have simply blocked the Sun is the presence of a full moon. Since it had just been noon, the full moon would be on the other side of the planet.

If you pay attention to that scene, some of the stars appear to be moving along with Chandler

 

[karo_senpaii]

So you're saying that darkness is dense enough to block out the light of the Sun, but it can't block out the light of stars thousands of light years away?

Yes that's typically what the moon does.

Man, I expected a better answer than that. Let’s do a simple exercise:

Chandler blocked the sunlight: If your answer is yes, then all of Britain should have been in darkness (or at least most of it). But we can clearly see that’s not the case. In fact, it was still daytime in Camelot. This image also reinforces how weak the hypothesis is that he actually blocked out the Sun.

Chandler covered the sky with his darkness and blocked the Sun’s light, which is why stars were visible: That’s also incorrect. It would be like placing a dark mass in the sky above your head and expecting to see stars just because it blocked sunlight. That doesn’t make sense, since this mass would also block light coming from the stars.

One detail that makes it impossible for him to have simply blocked the Sun is the presence of a full moon. Since it had just been noon, the full moon would be on the other side of the planet.

If you pay attention to that scene, some of the stars appear to be moving along with Chandler

Your claim isn't even coherent. One way or the other his darkness blocked out the sun and that's why it's night time. So his darkness blocked out the sun, leaped intergalactic distances and covered all the spaces in between the stars but didn't block out the stars? I'm truly hopeful this is what you mean because while it is genuinely one of the worst takes ever, it is not even close to being as bad as what I think you actually mean which is that you think chandler created a starry sky inside his darkness ?

Before I go on I want to fully understand what you're trying to say.

Oh by the way , day time being in Camelot actually just supports my claim. The moon literally blocks sunlight but some part of earth still experiences day time coz it doesn't fully block out the light.

Like the simplest interpretation is what is happening (chandler is blocking out sunlight with his darkness kinda like how the moon does it but he can't fully block out all the light, that's why some parts show daytime and you can still see stars kinda again like how the moon does it). Not this mental gymnastics you're doing but go on , make it clearer

 

[DarkMatter29]

Isn't Chandler's case accepted on the wiki as a reality warping? It seems he brings the real night by covering the area with his magic.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Yes that's typically what the moon does.

Your claim isn't even coherent. One way or the other his darkness blocked out the sun and that's why it's night time. So his darkness blocked out the sun, leaped intergalactic distances and covered all the spaces in between the stars but didn't block out the stars?

The moon doesn’t do that. Its darkness didn’t block the sunlight to bring night. Damn, the guy loves to ignore the scans. Where did you even get that conclusion from? I’m sure I said nothing even remotely close to that.

I'm truly hopeful this is what you mean because while it is genuinely one of the worst takes ever, it is not even close to being as bad as what I think you actually mean which is that you think chandler created a starry sky inside his darkness ?

That’s exactly what was said and shown — like... Chandler covers the Sins with magic (we see a starry sky), Chandler flies after the Sins and we see stars, while the actual ground behind the darkness is not visible.That has nothing to do with blocking sunlight.

Before I go on I want to fully understand what you're trying to say.

Oh by the way , day time being in Camelot actually just supports my claim. The moon literally blocks sunlight but some part of earth still experiences day time coz it doesn't fully block out the light.

Like the simplest interpretation is what is happening (chandler is blocking out sunlight with his darkness kinda like how the moon does it but he can't fully block out all the light, that's why some parts show daytime and you can still see stars kinda again like how the moon does it). Not this mental gymnastics you're doing but go on , make it clearer

This doesn’t support your point at all. There are some clear areas just a few kilometers away from the night zone, and there’s literally a scan showing that only the space around Chandler was dark and starry — everything else around him was bright.

Once again: the full moon makes it impossible for him to have blocked the sunlight.

 

[MeiouHades]

Yeah, Karo makes far more sense here, on top of that all of these proposed time-frames seem baseless to me, so the calc might just be bunk. A word of advice to the supporters, if y'all want to this accepted properly, go 'head and make a CRT discussin' what time frame should be used. Once that's decided, the calc can potentially be redone

 

[Majinere566]

Can yall stop arguing about a Chandler feat in a Demon Realm related thread?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Yeah, Karo makes far more sense here, on top of that all of these proposed time-frames seem baseless to me, so the calc might just be bunk. A word of advice to the supporters, if y'all want to this accepted properly, go 'head and make a CRT discussin' what time frame should be used. Once that's decided, the calc can potentially be redone

The point of this thread is to argue a new timeframe tho

 

[Bossbrosish]

The point of this thread is to argue a new timeframe tho

This calc should either be removed as the time frame still remains unknown or the creator should give a better justification for using the 20yrs..

 

[karo_senpaii]

The moon doesn’t do that. Its darkness didn’t block the sunlight to bring night. Damn, the guy loves to ignore the scans. Where did you even get that conclusion from? I’m sure I said nothing even remotely close to that.

That’s exactly what was said and shown — like... Chandler covers the Sins with magic (we see a starry sky), Chandler flies after the Sins and we see stars, while the actual ground behind the darkness is not visible.That has nothing to do with blocking sunlight.

This doesn’t support your point at all. There are some clear areas just a few kilometers away from the night zone, and there’s literally a scan showing that only the space around Chandler was dark and starry — everything else around him was bright.

Once again: the full moon makes it impossible for him to have blocked the sunlight.

1.. The moon isn't blocking actually sunlight, the sun is not facing that direction but the moon's ability to reflect part of the sunlight absorbed into it is what allowed for the night to be brightened up, which is actually the point about chandler's magic I'm making. If he blocks out the sun rays of light penetrating through that area , it would be like night but you can still see stars

2. Idk what you're not getting about it. For one you know demons have non magical darkness , and two even if he covered the sky with a blanket of darkness, if it's not dense enough, the light from stars will penetrate through it. We deadass have seen a cloud above chandler's darkness when mael used his grace to part it..like tf?

3. If you take a step back and don't just argue to get upgrades you'd realise you're not making sense. You're arguing that chandler makes 4a darkness containing stars and the width of his darkness is what a few Kms? Because most of the planet is still experiencing sunlight . So like the length of his darkness is Kms while it's height extends so far upwards that it house stars light years away? As a guy that does lots of calcs explain that away?

Only way this works is if he's creating a pocket dimension itself where the outside is bigger than the inside but it's not the case here so honestly this is absurd.


I'll advise we stop talking about this coz it's derailing to the thread

 

[Makai641001]

Yeah, Karo makes far more sense here,

The darkness thing shouldn’t be used

on top of that all of these proposed time-frames seem baseless to me,

I mean in the panel that is used the narrator states that 3000 years is a « long, long time » while he also said that the dimensions were finished soon after their birth.

We know it happened in less than 3000 years and that’s something we could work on.

On top of that we have visual evidence of the sacred tree being around the same size than his 20 years old self (it’s entirely false to say that it’s Regen vs resurrection since in both cases the seed was still alive)

so the calc might just be bunk. A word of advice to the supporters, if y'all want to this accepted properly, go 'head and make a CRT discussin' what time frame should be used. Once that's decided, the calc can potentially be redone

It’s not even what will be used since Chaos have creations way bigger than these ones with shorter timeframes (weeks to month)

This would just be back up and even if you argued that 20 years seems insufficient, 3000 years is a stupidly low end going with what the narrator states.

 

[Kaydee1648]

snip

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the DK creation timeframe per the OP. No need to engage in a topic that diverts from your premise. If Demon_Lord18 feels strongly about Chandler’s feat he can make a new thread to handle it. That won’t get accepted in this CDT either. Honestly, goodluck with that.

 

[karo_senpaii]

The darkness thing shouldn’t be used

I mean in the panel that is used the narrator states that 3000 years is a « long, long time » while he also said that the dimensions were finished soon after their birth.

We know it happened in less than 3000 years and that’s something we could work on.

On top of that we have visual evidence of the sacred tree being around the same size than his 20 years old self (it’s entirely false to say that it’s Regen vs resurrection since in both cases the seed was still alive)


It’s not even what will be used since Chaos have creations way bigger than these ones with shorter timeframes (weeks to month)

This would just be back up and even if you argued that 20 years seems insufficient, 3000 years is a stupidly low end going with what the narrator states.

If there are better fears with actual accurate time frames? Why are we doing this 3page back and forth on a creation feats with speculative time frame?

Tbh with 2 votes I think I'm just gonna ask for this to be applied. Y'all should regroup and come back with a crt with those better feats

 

[Makai641001]

If there are better fears with actual accurate time frames? Why are we doing this 3page back and forth on a creation feats with speculative time frame?

Cause that’s what was used in the accepted CRT (we already told you and you know about Neo Camelot)

Tbh with 2 votes I think I'm just gonna ask for this to be applied. Y'all should regroup and come back with a crt with those better feats

Yeah that’s better, we’ll just use Arthur’s creation

 

[Majinere566]

When is this getting implemented

 

[Demon_Lord18]

When is this getting implemented

I have time, so I'm going to do it now

 

[Demon_Lord18]

I believe I’ve applied the changes to all profiles, so this can be closed

 

[Zezu1995]

all the gods seem to have some creation ability when it comes to their realms.. and they all spawn from the same being.. i dont see why we cant use chaos neo camelot as a timeframe for all the realms. while FKOA happens 16 yrs later, didora,ironside went into neo camelot literally days/weeks after the DK was beaten. so it def isnt 16 yrs its MUCH lower .. this debate is pointless and now due to my scans below the feat is even higher due to the timeframe being far lower than what we used so i guess ty?

• its compared to the other creations so using 16yrs as a lowball and weeks as a high ball should be fine
• it happened 16 yrs AGO , literally when the sins just beat the DK
• ironside and didora, who got poisoned in the womb, which takes 9 months and she was already preggo
• more lore

-poisoned in womb