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Demigra vs Saber

TheGodOfICE777

TheGodOfICE777

3,330
4,354
Omega challenged me to make a fair match-up with Time Power. Let’s see if I succeed in doing so.

SBA

Demigra:
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Kamen Rider Saber:
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latest


2-C keys
Speed Equalized
 
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At first glance Demigra has High Godly regen which Saber has no answer for according to his profile. So Saber can't kill him. Xenoverse Demigra really only has Time Power at his disposal, but to what extent I have no idea.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
At first glance Demigra has High Godly regen which Saber has no answer for according to his profile. So Saber can't kill him. Xenoverse Demigra really only has Time Power at his disposal, but to what extent I have no idea.
Click to expand...
Demigra doesn't have high godly regen, but he can negate it on the conceptual, information, and history level.
 
Regeneration (High-Godly; Touma revived after the Wonder World and Earth merged, destroying both. The Almighty Book along with the entire timeline of Saber destroyed as a result), Creation and Conceptual Manipulation[19] (Type 1; See Explanation; Obtained Wonder Almighty, the new version of Almighty Book, which is a primordial concept that gave birth to concepts that govern reality itself). Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1) (Touma and Wonder Almighty regenerated, thus exists, after the destruction of realities and concepts cause by Storious' Grimoire, which is akin to Almighty Book)
Click to expand...
Fate Manipulation, Reality Warping and Plot Manipulation (See Explanation; Using Wonder Almighty, Saber is able to recreate Wonder World and the Earth after they were erased at a conceptual level. Thus, he was able to recreate things such as concepts, history, stories, time, and the future that existed in the previous Almighty Book.)
Click to expand...
 
To get an idea of Saber's skill:

IxaSaga2 said:
Megid: Megid are monsters that are immortal and can be revived by opening their books. The ones in this arc are the Golem Megid, three Medusa Sisters, a Goblin Gang, Hanzaki, a Piranha army, an Ant Army, Queen Ant Megid, and 5 Ugly Duckling Megid. It is unknown whether all of them learn from their deaths but we do know that there are some who do. I'll go over them later.

There are also the 4 General Megid that are far stronger/skilled than the previous; Storious, Legeiel, Zooous, and Desast. Storious, Legeiel, and Zooous were originally humans. After discovering the Wonder World and the Almighty Book (A book containing the records of everything in history from beginning to end), they each ripped out one the pages and that transformed them into Megid. Storious became the Megid of stories, Legeiel became the Megid of Divine Beasts, and Zooous became the Megid of animals. The Megid's jobs are to take a portion of a place, convert it into books, and make new Megid out of those books. The Kamen Riders of each generation not only have to fight against hordes and hordes of normal Megid whom they already have trouble against, they all have faced the 4 Megid that have massacred their teachers, parent figures, and predecessors. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the riders are killed in battle against them.

Sword of Logos: A 2 thousand year old organization dedicated to fighting the Megid. They seek out the best of the best swordsmen to fight the Megid. Even with the best of the best swordsmen, The 4 General Megids are shown to kill them with varying difficulty. You’d have to be Daichi (The guy that was the most skilled in his generation. Current Kamen Rider Calibur) levels of skill in order to face the 4 generals and even then, you would most likely die against them as shown when Storious stomped an upgraded Calibur.

You’d have to be a handful (tens) of the best swordsmen in the world to become a part of the org and you’d have to be in the top 4 - 10 of that to wield a Seiken (Holy Sword) and become a Kamen Rider. There’s these Kamen Riders that are in each generation: Saber, Blades, Espada, Kenzan, Buster, Slash, Calibur, Sabela, and Durendal.

We don’t know exactly what they did or their feat but we know one thing; each generation has a Kamen Rider Calibur. From this we know that each generation’s Kamen Riders have fought and sparred with a person that goes through countless timelines in which they face world-ending scenarios each time (Doesn’t actually go through but the precognition is so strong that the scenarios feel very real and they permanently change the personalities and beliefs of each user). Zooous is a character that has RPL that once he sees a move, that move will never work on him again. Also each time he loses, he gets permanently stronger and more skilled. Since we know the level of precog each Calibur has, we also know that it is VERY likely Zooous has RPLed from many of them. Legeiel and Storious would scale of course.

So the average Kamen Rider predecessors scale to all of that. The current generation gets far more skilled than their predecessors.

But how do we know how skilled the previous Kamen Riders were without knowing their feats? That’s why we have the Four Sages. The Four Sages are the council of the org and are the originators of every sword technique to have existed in Sword of Logos. They are nicknamed, “The Ultimate Swordsmen” and have existed for a long time, presumably as long as the current Master of Logos (Leader of SoL of course). They recently died due to an assassination but when they revived in the final episodes of Saber, they shitstomped all of the Saber riders (EoS arc, when the Saber riders scales to Blades THS, a form that has 20,000 years of culminated skill and techniques, and Xross Saber, a form that theoretically have 6,235,300 combinations of attacks, can stomp Solomon, and restore the world with one sword swing) without effort. And at this point, the Saber riders scale above Master of Logos. Because they have been alive for so long, it is VERY likely that they have trained the swordsmen of each generation. Although not that the swordsmen have their skills by being taught by them, being able to train and spar with them is still very valuable.

Saber: Without prior training, Saber was able to wield Rekka, a Seiken. In addition to what I said earlier, A Seiken requires the user to be a combat expert in order to wield, let alone master. Episode 1 and Saber’s first fight. Golem Megid is a Megid that can turn into a large size. Rekka literally appeared in front of Saber out of thin air and the episode told him, good luck against it. Saber automatically knew what to do on the spot and he defeated Golem Megid with ease. By ease, I mean Saber was styling on this guy. Dodging every move, and dancing around him. Next ep, Saber immediately figures out the link between the Grasshopper and Ant Megids, by referencing a book about Grasshoppers and Ants. Saber and Blades wipe through hundreds of Ant Megids easily. This is also the first time Saber used his bike and he used it perfectly, even climbing up a beanstalk as it grew. Speaking of beanstalk, Saber got the beanstalk book and then used it perfectly without prior knowledge. He turns into Dragon Jackun, a volume 2 form with a completely different fighting style than base form. He even thought of better ideas than Blades to use the book more effectively to kill the Grasshopper Megid. Next episode, Saber fights the Hanzaki Megid. Hanzaki Megid is far stronger than the previous Megids due to the ability to RPL every time he loses. Here Saber assumes another Volume 2 form which is Dragon Peter. By RPLing, the Megid got stronger again and Saber and Blades struggled to fight him again. Saber then masters the Volume 3 forms which even Blades was not ready for. Reminder that Saber is days into his swordsmanship and Blades is decades into it and is a very gifted individual. Saber then stomps the Megid that stomped him previously. Then the Piranha Megid appears and there’s thousands of them (some are big and some are small). Saber in this part masters Crimson Dragon which is a matching Volume 3 form, a form that strains the body heavily and takes a long time to master. This took Blades hours of Accelerated Development training in liberation, an area of training that speeds up training albeit very difficult. Saber masters this the first time he uses it. There are other episodes where Saber fights and stomps the rest of the Megids.

TLDR so far: The baseline for being a part of Sword of Logos is to be a select few tens of the best swordsmen in Sword of Logos. The baseline to be a Kamen Rider in Saber is to be the top swordsmen of the few tens of people that get into Sword of Logos. Copying and using entirely different fighting style is a standard things for them to do and they have shown to master them in seconds. Each generation scales to the Calibur of their generation, a Kamen Rider that is able to precog countless timelines. Any of the Megid generals can stomp the Saber riders in skill. Saber figures out very creative ways to beat the monsters due to his knowledge on books. It took Saber a few minutes to master something that takes a lifetime of a gifted person to learn, it took Saber a few seconds to master a dangerous form (Volume 3) that takes a gifted person to learn in decades, and it took the same amount of time to learn an even more dangerous form (Matching Volume 3) that took a gifted person to train in hours of accelerated development training. This is even more impressive knowing that The Volume 2 forms each have different fighting styles (Dragon Jackun, Dragon Peter, Dragon Hedgehog, Dragon Arthur, Dragon Bremen, Dragon Alangina, Dragon Eagle, and Saiyuu Dragon all have different abilities and ways of fighting. Saber easily mastered them in succession). The Volume 3 Forms (Dragon Peter Hedgehog, Crimson Dragon, and Dragon Eagle Arthur) are even harder to learn because they mix 3 different fighting styles into one. All of this was learned within seconds. Not only that, they would instantly know how to utilize the abilities even if they have never been shown before. Blades and Espada catch up to his skill quickly. Buster, Slash, Kenzan, and Calibur are well above that already.

Saber then goes to Avalon and gains trials to get King of Arthur and Dragonic Knight (The trials aren’t told to the viewers but I have a hunch). Apparently this trial is to test whether or not Saber is worthy of King of Arthur and Dragonic Knight. Saber solves the riddle to King of Arthur in a few minutes. The riddle was basically an entirely white room and a guy saying the same thing over and over again and Saber had to do something (I forgot what) for King of Arthur to appear. Saber kills another one of the trials in literally one-two moves. The Saber riders are struggling with Calibur who has the help of two Medusa Megids. Saber comes back from Avalon, plans out a whole strategy plan in less than one day and the fight goes perfectly planned and the Saber riders defeat Calibur and the Medusas. This awakens the true power of King of Arthur and completes yet another trial, making 3 trials completed in less than one day. With the new found power, Saber was able to stomp Calibur. Calibur then gets a new form called Jaou Dragon which he was able to stomp 4 Saber riders at once. In the final showdown between Calibur and the 3 generals, the Saber Riders were struggling heavily. After Blades gets King Lion Daisenki, Blades was able to stomp the 3 generals by himself. Saber gets Dragonic Knight and automatically learns how to use it and stomp Jaou Dragon. Dragonic Knight and King Lion Daisenki are very similar and appear back to back so Saber in Dragonic Knight can definitely defeat the 4 generals by himself at this point. Now, Saber would be far more skilled than himself from a few episodes ago.

Saber and his group have fought and defeated the 4 generals in this arc.

Zooous: A megid that gets stronger and more skill with every loss he takes. I said that a move that he sees once before will never work on him again. He has RPLed from many Kamen Riders that are more skilled than the current Riders (Zooous said Blades’ master was far more skilled than him).
Storious: A manipulator who orchestrated events from 2 millennia ago to now. Storious is a Megid that effortlessly stomps the Saber riders before King Lion Daisenki and Dragonic Knight. Storious has a multitude of haxes that the Saber raiders have to deal with. He doesn’t really do much in this arc but he becomes the big bad that scales far above the Four Sages.

Movie: Saber and crew have to fight Falchion, a swordsman who is equal to Saikou who is a 2 thousand year old swordsman who became a legendary Swordsman in folklore. They were part of some of the original swordsmen in SoL (another example to prove that the previous swordsmen were no joke). Falchion carries around a Tier 2 book so Saber and crew not only have to fight him, they have to fight his army while a book is destroying two universes. Falchion also has low-godly regen so Saber was 1 v 1 fighting this guy and killed him multiple times. By this time, it was still early into the arc so he wasn’t as skilled as the end of the arc. Falchion, despite dying multiple times, was stomping Saber (Regen was kinda a boast move for him to prove a point that Saber couldn’t kill him. When Saber gained Emotional Dragon, he is capable of using it to full effects in its first use and Saber then stomped Falchion now that their AP is equalized. Saber also found a way to bypass Falchion’s regen by sealing him in a book. Note that Saber has never used any technique from Emotional Dragon before and he knew about the sealing and how to use it.

Since speed amps are prevalent here, I will talk about some of the speed amp characters and how the riders deal with them.

Espada, Kenzan, and Desast: Espada and Kenzan use speed amps very frequently. They are among the fastest in the organization. Back to the point of the Four Sages, the speed amps is a thing that they came up with. Between the sages training the Kamen Riders and the Kamen Riders training with each other, they should be more than capable of handling it. Even the slowest out of all the characters (Buster) is able to handle Desast’s speed amp with ease and Buster even trained Espada.

Kenzan vs Desast had Kenzan speeding up and circling around Desast (who has precog) and outspeeding him at every turn. Even so, Desast was able to go toe to toe with Kenzan for a brief moment. Kenzan is currently below Espada in terms of skill. When Espada went into his speed amp against Calibur, he was countered very easily. Calibur was ready for all his moves and beat Espada multiple times and by this point, Espada is even more powerful than Saber and Blades. Calibur is also a character who 1 v 3 stomped Saber, Blades, and Espada. Since the Keys are treated as the end of each arc, Saber now scales far beyond Calibur. We see this later on when Saber effortlessly stomps Kenzan.
Click to expand...
 
not reading allat, anyways, demigra has crazy layered passive power null with time power iirc, he can literally just neg all sabers regenerative capabilities with his high godly conceptual neg.
 
TiltedFN said:
not reading allat, anyways, demigra has crazy layered passive power null with time power iirc, he can literally just neg all sabers regenerative capabilities with his high godly conceptual neg.
Click to expand...
none of that matters coz of thot based plot hax
 
Demigra don't have passsive, the passive is kinda aura based kind of passive, the guy didn't "flare" his Time Energy presence lol, however his first move is always EE, which now is Information, History and Conceptual EE, that it. What Saber HGR cover aside from plot??
 
Vietthai96 said:
Demigra don't have passsive, the passive is kinda aura based kind of passive, the guy didn't "flare" his Time Energy presence lol, however his first move is always EE, which now is Information, History and Conceptual EE, that it. What Saber HGR cover aside from plot??
Click to expand...
Everything you mentioned except the information part.

Saber's first movement is thought-based plot manipulation and he has precog and omniscience that will make him use several speed boosts that are also thought-based.
 
Lynieryz said:
Everything you mentioned except the information part.

Saber's first movement is thought-based plot manipulation and he has precog and omniscience that will make him use several speed boosts that are also thought-based.
Click to expand...
1. So he gonna be erased and can't come back due to Info EE. Also you guys should specific on the profile what their HGR cover or else people don't know

2. So, oke, his first move is plot hax, so what he gonna do with his plot hax, EE people??, write a victory for him???, change some past events in the plot??, or something else???
 
Lynieryz said:
It depends on his objective, it is a general manipulation but he is more likely to define some rule that will finish the battle.
Click to expand...
Ngl.........that.................not helping this battle tbh, so it is depend on his mood probably lol, so anyway this is hard, if he thought-based plot hax people the moment the battle start, Demigra lose, if he not then Demigra win, which basically depend on his mood, so this gonna be Incon
Robo432343 said:
sabers resistance to conceptual manip is better than information EE
Click to expand...
The same can be said to Time Power, it literally > Ziku World, a pure informational world, and it also > Text
 
So does saber just like not automatically erase people with his plot? What does he do with it? If this were speed unequalized, demigra one tap.
 
TiltedFN said:
So does saber just like not automatically erase people with his plot? What does he do with it? If this were speed unequalized, demigra one tap.
Click to expand...
bro all touma does is use plot hax as wonder guardian, nothing else 😭
he has access to all his civilian abilities but he only uses plot hax
he has to use the plot hax to access his rider abilities
 
Robo432343 said:
bro all touma does is use plot hax as wonder guardian, nothing else 😭
he has access to all his civilian abilities but he only uses plot hax
he has to use the plot hax to access his rider abilities
Click to expand...
Okay but immeasurable speed>thought speed
 
Vietthai96 said:
Ngl.........that.................not helping this battle tbh, so it is depend on his mood probably lol, so anyway this is hard, if he thought-based plot hax people the moment the battle start, Demigra lose, if he not then Demigra win, which basically depend on his mood, so this gonna be Incon
Click to expand...
There is no doubt that he will start with plot manipulation but what Touma considers a victory may not be a victory here on the wiki for example it is very likely that he will start with "Everything you do against me is useless" and then he'll probably make sure Demigra doesn't do anything evil for the rest of his life and both would move on, would that be considered a victory according to the Wiki?
 
Lynieryz said:
It depends on his objective, it is a general manipulation but he is more likely to define some rule that will finish the battle.
Click to expand...
Then why would we assume that he would do Plot EE as his first move if that’s not what he usually does, since the way you’re explaining it he would decide what to do it with after assessing the situation.
Robo432343 said:
sabers resistance to conceptual manip is better than information EE

i think it also extends up to information coz of this
"In the event where the pages were ripped from the Almighty Book, they have changed to Wonder Ride Books. Those books contained information/lore of various legend in textual form which allows Saber Riders to extract power from it."
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CM isn’t considered better than Info Manip and vice versa, also if he isn’t accepted to have Info Manip Type 2 you can’t say that he might have it. (If there is just correct me since I might’ve missed it)
Vietthai96 said:
Wait what, speed is not equalized??, what the hell man get your ass up here @TheGodOfICE777 :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Fixed


Also isn’t Demigra’s first move usually erasing all of history?
 
Lynieryz said:
There is no doubt that he will start with plot manipulation but what Touma considers a victory may not be a victory here on the wiki for example it is very likely that he will start with "Everything you do against me is useless" and then he'll probably make sure Demigra doesn't do anything evil for the rest of his life and both would move on, would that be considered a victory according to the Wiki?
Click to expand...
That.......isn't helping, well, to me look like it is a wincon, but i think we need to ask staff about this lol, this is so weird
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
Then why would we assume that he would do Plot EE as his first move if that’s not what he usually does, since the way you’re explaining it he would decide what to do it with after assessing the situation.
Click to expand...
??
the only ability saber can use is his plot hax, he doesn't have access to his rider abilities if he doesn't use plot hax lol
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
Also isn’t Demigra’s first move usually erasing all of history?
Click to expand...
Isn't i already said it on my post??
Vietthai96 said:
Demigra don't have passsive, the passive is kinda aura based kind of passive, the guy didn't "flare" his Time Energy presence lol, however his first move is always EE, which now is Information, History and Conceptual EE, that it. What Saber HGR cover aside from plot??
Click to expand...
 
Robo432343 said:
??
the only ability saber can use is his plot hax, he doesn't have access to his rider abilities if he doesn't use plot hax lol
Click to expand...
I know but what does he do with it EE or what? Telling me he does plot hax, but not telling me what he does with it doesn’t really help.
Vietthai96 said:
Isn't i already said it on my post??
Click to expand...
If Demigra’s starting move is always EE (which is Info, Conceptual, and Historical) then how would Saber stop this?
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
I know but what does he do with it EE or what? Telling me he does plot hax, but not telling me what he does with it doesn’t really help.
Click to expand...
okay lets wait for supporters to come here
TheGodOfICE777 said:
If Demigra’s starting move is always EE (which is Info, Conceptual, and Historical) then how would Saber stop this?
Click to expand...
because sabers resistance to conceptual stuff covers this
also he has precog anyway
 
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