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DELTARUNE; Chapter 3 & 4 !!!SPOILER!!! Discussion Thread

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Somebody might wanna undo Learner's unaccepted edits so he doesn't get in trouble, seems the poor lad is asleep and I doubt it was an intention to purposefully rule-break.
 
9-B/wall Kris actually violates the rules on kinetic energy use I think.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Kinetic Energy Feats

In physics, the kinetic energy of an object is the energy that it possesses due to its motion. It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. Having gained this energy during its acceleration, the body maintains this kinetic energy unless...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
For example, if a character launches a 200kg metal ball against a common wall at Mach 300, but the wall remains largely undamaged, the energy required to cause the minor damage on the wall would take priority over the kinetic energy derived from speed in this case.
Click to expand...
The bottle doesn't break when they throw it at supersonic speeds.
 
at 2:40 is there anything that we can get from this? The rain just stops and the lighting changes, but I don't think that this is actually what's happening (did Susie just not notice the rain stopping?), so I don't think this is really weather manip
 
Ti58 said:
9-B/wall Kris actually violates the rules on kinetic energy use I think.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Kinetic Energy Feats

In physics, the kinetic energy of an object is the energy that it possesses due to its motion. It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. Having gained this energy during its acceleration, the body maintains this kinetic energy unless...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

The bottle doesn't break when they throw it at supersonic speeds.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that only apply if the bottle hit a wall? The rule is about the damage inflicted on something else not to the thing that was thrown.
 
We don't know if the SOUL we used is ours or Kris's yet

Although from what we know, it's more likely that we were transferred into Kris's soul. If so, then Kris's soul itself is "weak", not us
The player profile needs a second key, varies with a Vessel or something like that
 
Ti58 said:
at 2:40 is there anything that we can get from this? The rain just stops and the lighting changes, but I don't think that this is actually what's happening (did Susie just not notice the rain stopping?), so I don't think this is really weather manip
Click to expand...

highkey if this is a perception thing and not like some weird time hax stuffs then this would probably buff Kris' perception speed to like Mach 14 based off viewing the rain as stone till lmao
 
Ti58 said:
9-B/wall Kris actually violates the rules on kinetic energy use I think.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Kinetic Energy Feats

In physics, the kinetic energy of an object is the energy that it possesses due to its motion. It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. Having gained this energy during its acceleration, the body maintains this kinetic energy unless...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

The bottle doesn't break when they throw it at supersonic speeds.
Click to expand...
Collateral is often ignored in fiction. This rule is referring to damage done to the target, not the projectile.
 
Gooldiddy said:
highkey if this is a perception thing and not like some weird time hax stuffs then this would probably buff Kris' perception speed to like Mach 14 based off viewing the rain as stone till lmao
Click to expand...
I would just consider this a stylistic thing and not grant anything.

Neither stopping the rain nor moving at absurd speeds here really makes sense contextually.
 
Ti58 said:
at 2:40 is there anything that we can get from this? The rain just stops and the lighting changes, but I don't think that this is actually what's happening (did Susie just not notice the rain stopping?), so I don't think this is really weather manip
Click to expand...

Deltarune fans when stylistic choices (Kris must’ve entered Flash Time and controlled the weather with his mind):
 
Anonymous_Learner said:
us as an outer entity? no, not in the slightest. Us in game when they specifically take us out their body and makes us a floating red heart? They're able to make us hp so they're 100% capable of harming "us"
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The soul definitely isn't transcendent, it's just blatantly apart of the same environment as the other characters and interacts with it on the same level, and can even be harmed by normal things in-universe like Kris kicking a traschcan with the soul inside of it. The other properties of it are subject to debate.

The only currently known Deltarune character I could see realistically getting potential for outer at most is Gaster. Because he SEEMS (not confirmed to, just seems) to view the verse as a literal fictitious story and video game likely created by him (I say "likely" pretty loosely it's pretty much confirmed but good look running that through a CRT) and would thusly supersede it to a R-F transcendental extent, which is one of the basic justifications for outer as explained in the https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Reality-Fiction_Transcendence page of the wiki.

But there's lacking evidence to justify the tier plus we don't know like literally anything about his actual capabilities for certain, especially when you consider that this Gaster and the Gaster we know from Undertale very likely aren't the same.
 
Anonymous_Learner said:
O-outer???????
Click to expand...
Yes. It depends on the level of transcendence. Narrative or R-F transcendence is just outer unless there is context that would suggest otherwise. However if he only transcends it to a dimensional extent his tier would extend from the cosmology of the verse and he'd only be in a tier in the 2 category or or low in 1 depending on how things go.

It's also possible that he doesn't actually transcend the verse at all and just created the verse from inside of it and can manipulate it to his will, but I think he will transcend it in some way. Yes though outer is a possibility believe it or not.
 
RinneItachi said:
The soul definitely isn't transcendent, it's just blatantly apart of the same environment as the other characters and interacts with it on the same level, and can even be harmed by normal things in-universe like Kris kicking a traschcan with the soul inside of it. The other properties of it are subject to debate.

The only currently known Deltarune character I could see realistically getting potential for outer at most is Gaster. Because he SEEMS (not confirmed to, just seems) to view the verse as a literal fictitious story and video game likely created by him (I say "likely" pretty loosely it's pretty much confirmed but good look running that through a CRT) and would thusly supersede it to a R-F transcendental extent, which is one of the basic justifications for outer as explained in the https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Reality-Fiction_Transcendence page of the wiki.

But there's lacking evidence to justify the tier plus we don't know like literally anything about his actual capabilities for certain, especially when you consider that this Gaster and the Gaster we know from Undertale very likely aren't the same.
Click to expand...
Eh, not sure. Flowey also sees Undertale as a game but never is 1-A. I also doubt that Gaster has R>F over the player.
 
Gooldiddy said:
highkey if this is a perception thing and not like some weird time hax stuffs then this would probably buff Kris' perception speed to like Mach 14 based off viewing the rain as stone till lmao
Click to expand...
i mean it definitely isn't that lmao (even though it would be funny). what time hax would that even qualify as though
 
Ti58 said:
Eh, not sure. Flowey also sees Undertale as a game but never is 1-A. I also doubt that Gaster has R>F over the player.
Click to expand...
not really. Flowey DESCRIBES Undertale as a game, but there's not much to suggest he literally sees it as the video game it is on the player's computer (unless you wanna use fourth wall stuff with Omega Flowey but ehhh). he also never transcends over the game itself like the Player or Gaster to an extent so he would only get self awareness, not any R>F
 
Ti58 said:
Eh, not sure. Flowey also sees Undertale as a game but never is 1-A. I also doubt that Gaster has R>F over the player.
Click to expand...
Flowey doesn't see Undertale as a game lol. At best he 4th wall breaks and has some meta type feats. The difference is he still exists within the cosmology and can only effect it to an extent. Gaster seems to just be above the game entirely and likely created it on a narrative level. That's not the same as just knowing that you're in a video game lol. But we don't know these things about Gaster for a fact yet which is my whole point. It's still plausible he exists within the cosmology even on the same level as other characters, we don't know.

The player, or the player's soul, which can be harmed and destroyed by normal things in-universe. Our soul represents us but it isn't literally us, so I feel like that's a bit of a weird view on the matter. Gaster could 100% transcend our soul narratively.
 
RinneItachi said:
Flowey doesn't see Undertale as a game lol. At best he 4th wall breaks and has some meta type feats.
Click to expand...
Umm, have you seen what he says in the pacifist and genocide routes? He sees the world as a game because he thinks the characters act like video game characters.
RinneItachi said:
The difference is he still exists within the cosmology and can only effect it to an extent. Gaster seems to just be above the game entirely and likely created it on a narrative level.
Click to expand...
And I disagree. Gaster being directly responsible for the creation of the light world, which is meant to be basically a world of reality and stuff (in contrast to the fantasy world that is the dark world) wouldn't really make sense to me.

Also I feel like, it's notable that Gaster at one point still used to be a normal monster, who reached a state where he is shattered across time and space after falling into his creation after his experiments went wrong.
RinneItachi said:
That's not the same as just knowing that you're in a video game lol. But we don't know these things about Gaster for a fact yet which is my whole point. It's still plausible he exists within the cosmology even on the same level as other characters, we don't know
Click to expand...
I'm sure Deltarune will answer it.
RinneItachi said:
The player, or the player's soul, which can be harmed and destroyed by normal things in-universe. Our soul represents us but it isn't literally us, so I feel like that's a bit of a weird view on the matter. Gaster could 100% transcend our soul narratively.
Click to expand...
Gaster doesn't seem to talk to the player as if they were someone far inferior to him but talks to us as if were the player of his game (game developer and player basically). In fact in some optional dialogue he even asks the player "WHAT ARE YOU?"
 
ShockingPsychic said:
I still don't like how we treat Jevil as being aware that he's in a video game, to the extent that he has 4th Wall Awareness. To me it seems pretty obvious that he's just weird and crazy and sees life as 'a game'.
Click to expand...
"just weird and crazy" he had the shadow crystal and whatever he saw there made him "just weird and crazy"
 
Last edited:
Ti58 said:
Umm, have you seen what he says in the pacifist and genocide routes? He sees the world as a game because he thinks the characters act like video game characters.
Click to expand...
Because he's lived the collective of thousands of lives trying to experience everything the Underground has to offer by abusing time manipulation. That doesn't mean he knows he's literally in a game and this can't be proven.
Ti58 said:
And I disagree. Gaster being directly responsible for the creation of the light world, which is meant to be basically a world of reality and stuff (in contrast to the fantasy world that is the dark world) wouldn't really make sense to me.
Click to expand...
That's not what I mean necessarily. I more so mean he might've created the universe that Deltarune resides in from somewhere within the cosmology, but that isn't what I believe as I've made clear. I believe he made Deltarune, as in the game itself, and there is so much evidence behind this it's close to becoming a fact outright.
Ti58 said:
Also I feel like, it's notable that Gaster at one point still used to be a normal monster, who reached a state where he is shattered across time and space after falling into his creation after his experiments went wrong.
Click to expand...
This is in reference to Undertale Gaster who likely isn't the same as the one we're speaking of. Because at the start of Deltarune, where we speak to an entity that pretty much everyone believes is Gaster, the theme playing, which is literally a slowed down version of Gaster's theme with reverb and a missing note, is titled "ANOTHER HIM".
Ti58 said:
I'm sure Deltarune will answer it.
Click to expand...
Well that's my main point, that we don't know anything for certain.
Ti58 said:
Gaster doesn't seem to talk to the player as if they were someone far inferior to him but talks to us as if were the player of his game (game developer and player basically). In fact in some optional dialogue he even asks the player "WHAT ARE YOU?"
Click to expand...
Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying. Gaster doesn't transcend the player, but the player=/=the player's soul. The soul clearly acts as a representation of us that we use to be present in this lesser reality and is the only way we can interact with this world, and we can only do so if we have a vessel. Our soul is a medium between worlds and Gaster seems to be attempting to use that medium to show us his creation, to take us on this journey, that's the theory as it currently stands.

Not once did I imply that Gaster is superior to THE PLAYER, but Gaster can absolutely be superior to the player's soul and I don't see the confusion behind that.
 
Genuinely do you guys think Starwalker is actually going to have some importance/relevance besides being a funny side character or do you think he’s just a goofy easter egg character along for the ride

If interacting with Starwalker is mandatory to get a particular route and beat a particular boss I’m going to laugh my ass off
 
The_Almighty_Wholesome said:
Genuinely do you guys think Starwalker is actually going to have some importance/relevance besides being a funny side character or do you think he’s just a goofy easter egg character along for the ride

If interacting with Starwalker is mandatory to get a particular route and beat a particular boss I’m going to laugh my ass off
Click to expand...
I think he will do something important in chapter 7
But at most perhaps he joins in a minor battle or helps the Delta Warriors in a puzzle
 
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