Deku vs Maki (MHA vs JJK) (14-2-0) (Grace)

[StorytellingDemonKing]

The girl born without cursed energy vs the boy born without a quirk:

• Starting distance is 25 meters
• Fighting location is Tokyo
• Speed is equal
• Final War Arc base Deku and Fully Heavenly Restricted Maki are used

Deku: 14 (@SuperStar, @Kingofwolves999, @ShigarakiShimura, @MintyBoi1, @Arkenis, @SeijiSetto, @StorytellingDemonKing, @57Dev, @Doggo, @Danny33wise, @Robo432343, @TauanVictor, @Spinoirr, @EL_xWatcher1234x)

Maki: 2 (@Dr._whiteee, @JnSteHar002)

Inconclusive:

 

[SuperStar]

Maki can't hurt Deku due to 7-C dura, but she has the soul split katana. Which can ignore durability.

Deku has better reactions due to danger sense, analytical prediction that makes him read moves of opponents faster than him, if Maki gets binded with black whip the fight is over, and he's over 3 times stronger than Maki and can further amp his speed and power with Fa Jin and Gear Shift. Voting Deku, he takes this with low difficulty.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

um...

 

[LordGinSama]

Maki also had Analytical Prediction which I'd argue is at the very least comparable to Deku's if not better.

 

[SuperStar]

True, but Danger Sense gives Deku the edge. Also, Deku has ranged attacks with air force, and it staggers people comparable to him and since the gap is over 3 times it's going to hit hard.

 

[LordGinSama]

True, but Danger Sense gives Deku the edge. Also, Deku has ranged attacks with air force, and it staggers people comparable to him and since the gap is over 3 times it's going to hit hard.

Fair, but the issue with Air Force is that's not the best idea against Maki as her form of Analytical Prediction very specifically counters air manipulation. Deku using air force would only make Maki'd Analytical Prediction work better as its based on reading heat signatures and changes in the air currents such as vibrations.

Maki has avoided being blitzed via her Analytical prediciton so she should be fine especially after gaining experience from Noaya.

 

[Maitreya12]

Maki also had Analytical Prediction which I'd argue is at the very least comparable to Deku's if not better.

True, Deku’s analytical prediction is based on feeling people’s mal intent through danger sense while Maki’s is through the feeling of the surrounding itself, like vibrations and shifts in the air, which I’d say is better due to having better senses that Deku.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Can Deku sense the mal-intent of someone without cursed energy? Maki is also much more zen after awakening so that may compound the issue of sensing.

What are Deku's ranged options looking like?

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Can Deku sense the mal-intent of someone without cursed energy? Maki is also much more zen after awakening so that may compound the issue of sensing.

MHA doesn't have cursed energy, so yeah. Also, pretty sure having no cursed energy doesn't equal having no emotion. (ill intent in this case)

What are Deku's ranged options looking like?

Air force and also black whip.

Eventually Maki would need to close the distance, and if she gets caught in his black whip I think it's over, since it would be Class K vs Unknown LS. On top of being able to be used as a shield around his entire body.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

MHA doesn't have cursed energy, so yeah. Also, pretty sure having no cursed energy doesn't equal having no emotion. (ill intent in this case)

That's not really relevant as all life forms in JJK with mal intent create CE, HR users are special in that they don't produce any notable effect. So I would need to know the extent of his malintent sensing.

Air force and also black whip.

Eventually Maki would need to close the distance, and if she gets caught in his black whip I think it's over, since it would be Class K vs Unknown LS. On top of being able to be used as a shield around his entire body.

Yeah I remember something about his whips. Are they just strong or do they have special properties?

 

[SuperStar]

As long as Maki has the intent to hurt/kill Deku, danger sense will always go off.



He can use his fingers to fire off one at a time.



Or use the gauntlet to fire off multiple blast.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

That's not really relevant as all life forms in JJK with mal intent create CE, HR users are special in that they don't produce any notable effect. So I would need to know the extent of his malintent sensing.

And MHA doesn't have a concept of CE to begin with. DS simply senses ill intent, or any malicious harm aimed at the user. It's even kind of shown that friendly banter between Banjo and Shinomori is enough to set it off. (or I think it was a small demonstration?)

Yeah I remember something about his whips. Are they just strong or do they have special properties?

Either as strong or maybe stronger? I actually don't know about that but should bare minimum scale to him.

 

[SuperStar]

Yeah I remember something about his whips. Are they just strong or do they have special properties?

It's black strands of energy that he can make come out of any part of his body. They vary in durability, since they were able to tank any attack from a 6-B character. But if he’s not focused on it, it can be cut by conventional weapons. But he can make more as long as he has the stamina for it.

He uses it on this dude in the scan below to bind him and throw him in the river. He can make one strand or multiple if he decides to.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

And MHA doesn't have a concept of CE to begin with. DS simply senses ill intent, or any harm aimed at the user. It's even kind of shown that friendly banter between Banjo and Shinomori is enough to set it off. (or I think it was a small demonstration?)

I understand your point, what I am saying is that if equalized regular people in JJK would be presumed the same as regular people in BHA. Even without CE, Maki has a special application applied to her that doesn't transmit any sort of signaling of her intent, even in areas where all the fundamental information of a person can be seen by the owner. HR is a special thing added to the user, so it isn't assumed people scale to that state of being.

Either as strong or maybe stronger? I actually don't know about that but should bare minimum scale to him.

Then yeah I agree those pose a problem for Maki. Her best defenses will be her sensing (which seems to be better?) and the fact she can presumably slice through the bands with her sword.

So I would say skill is gonna be an integral factor here.

 

[SuperStar]

True, Deku’s analytical prediction is based on feeling people’s mal intent through danger sense while Maki’s is through the feeling of the surrounding itself, like vibrations and shifts in the air, which I’d say is better due to having better senses that Deku.

Deku's analytical prediction and danger sense are not the same thing. Danger Sense goes off based on intent to hurt or kill. Deku's analytical prediction is just him predicting people's moves.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

I understand your point, what I am saying is that if equalized regular people in JJK would be presumed the same as regular people in BHA. Even without CE, Maki has a special application applied to her that doesn't transmit any sort of signaling of her intent, even in areas where all the fundamental information of a person can be seen by the owner. HR is a special thing added to the user, so it isn't assumed people scale to that state of being.

Can that sort of equalization be even done here? That be like equalizing a verse with Qi or Ki to a verse that doesn't even have a similar powersystem at all. MHA's quirks are biologically based. And what do you mean special application for Maki? Like, has someone with a power to sense emotion said that they can't sense Maki's ill intentions at them thus gaining a resistance to that power?

Then yeah I agree those pose a problem for Maki. Her best defenses will be her sensing (which seems to be better?) and the fact she can presumably slice through the bands with her sword.

And idk if it could slice. Maybe not? I don't remember if OFA % are needed for black whip itself to scale to 6-B in durability.

So I would say skill is gonna be an integral factor here.

Probably. Though Deku also has other quirks such as fa jin and smoke screen. (though ig smokescreen wont help as much)

 

[Maitreya12]

Deku's analytical prediction and danger sense are not the same thing. Danger Sense goes off based on intent to hurt or kill. Deku's analytical prediction is just him predicting people's moves.

Ahh ok, well then I still think my point remains the same as with Maki, her analytical prediction is based on her heavily restriction giving her extraordinary senses, allowing her to “see” things in a distinct way no one else can. So I still believe her analytical prediction outweighs Deku’s.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Can that sort of equalization be even done here? That be like equalizing a verse with Qi or Ki to a verse that doesn't even have a similar powersystem at all. MHA's quirks are biologically based. And what do you mean special application for Maki? Like, has someone with a power to sense emotion said that they can't sense Maki's ill intentions at them thus gaining a resistance to that power?

I would say so. Even if CE doesn't exist in BnHA, Deku is clearly picking up on some sort of stimulus being transmitted by the person. In JJK, such stimulus would be CE transmitted, which sorcerers and regular humans without CE control transmit. Maki (post awakening) doesn't transmit these signals, so much so that she can bypass Info type 2 analysis in domains used by her opponents.

And idk if it could slice. Maybe not? I don't remember if OFA % are needed for black whip itself to scale to 6-B in durability.

Her sword ignores durability.

Probably. Though Deku also has other quirks such as fa jin and smoke screen. (though ig smokescreen wont help as much)

Fa Jin is a shockwave? That may help but with Maki's sensing that may be hard to land.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Ahh ok, well then I still think my point remains the same as with Maki, her analytical prediction is based on her heavily restriction giving her extraordinary senses, allowing her to “see” things in a distinct way no one else can. So I still believe her analytical prediction outweighs Deku’s.

Not exactly, since even though she can see things in a distinct way, it's not exactly anything groundbreaking. Every attack she will try to use will be sensed by Deku and he will respond in time and vice versa. I haven't really seen a reason why they wouldn't cancel each other out in this case.

And Deku seems to have more advantage with black whip and fa jin.

 

[SuperStar]

Fa Jin is a shockwave? That may help but with Maki's sensing that may be hard to land.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/8/8a/Fa_Jin.png/revision/latest?cb=20230330162700

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Following

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

I would say so. Even if CE doesn't exist in BnHA, Deku is clearly picking up on some sort of stimulus being transmitted by the person. In JJK, such stimulus would be CE transmitted, which sorcerers and regular humans without CE control transmit. Maki (post awakening) doesn't transmit these signals, so much so that she can bypass Info type 2 analysis in domains used by her opponents.

Deku would sense her own ill intent, he doesn't need to sense her CE. He senses people emotions and anything trying to hurt him without CE existing already in MHA. It seems like you're under a misunderstanding that he has to sense CE when that couldn't be further from the case. I'd understand in MHA also had some special "quirk energy" that emits emotions to equalize here, but no such thing lol

Don't think you can equalize biological things with supernatural stuff, the manga even goes out to state quirks has nothing to do with supernatural things like magic.

Her sword ignores durability.

In what way specifically?

Fa Jin is a shockwave? That may help but with Maki's sensing that may be hard to land.

It stocks KE and amps him further for burst attacks and the like. Also pretty sure AP increase.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Not exactly, since even though she can see things in a distinct way, it's not exactly anything groundbreaking. Every attack she will try to use will be sensed by Deku and he will respond in time and vice versa. I haven't really seen a reason why they wouldn't cancel each other out in this case.

And Deku seems to have more advantage with black whip and fa jin.

Maki's perception isn't just reading air currents and temperature changes (which enough sounds more than Deku's), she literally can see the fundamental information of physical things which is akin to "seeing the souls of inanimate objects", so much so that categorical distinction of stimuli (such as the difference between seeing, smelling, hearing, etc) isn't relevant.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Deku would sense her own ill intent, he doesn't need to sense her CE. He senses people emotions and anything trying to hurt him without CE existing already in MHA. It seems like you're under a misunderstanding that he has to sense CE when that couldn't be further from the case. I'd understand in MHA also had some special "quirk energy" that emits emotions to equalize here, but no such thing lol

CE doesn't matter. CE is transmitted in JJK because CE is an underlying ontological thing in that verse. In BnHA Deku would just be picking up on physical markers of intent/emotion, which would fall under something already covered by CE. Maki does not transmit such information to much better sensors/analyzers than what exists in BnHA. That's my argument.

Don't think you can equalize biological things with supernatural stuff, the manga even goes out to state quirks has nothing to do with supernatural things like magic.

Yes, CE isn't only "supernatural" it covers physics and spiritual stuff.

In what way specifically?

It ignores physical durability and hits to the "soul" (information") of things, including entities like cursed spirits and inanimate objects.

It stocks KE and amps him further for burst attacks and the like. Also pretty sure AP increase.

Sounds like they would be good options for ranged attacks, up close finishers, and neutralization.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Maki's perception isn't just reading air currents and temperature changes (which enough sounds more than Deku's), she literally can see the fundamental information of physical things which is akin to "seeing the souls of inanimate objects", so much so that categorical distinction of stimuli (such as the difference between seeing, smelling, hearing, etc) isn't relevant.

And does it allow her to predict, like, 40,000 moves ahead, or simply upcoming threats? (the number is used as an example, don't think too deep about it) It's great that you added all that information, but it doesn't exactly speak to potency on the prediction itself in how far it goes. It would still cancel out via Maki reading Deku's next moves and Deku reading every move by Maki via danger sense. hopefully im not too terrible at explaining what i mean

CE doesn't matter.

Yes, agreed.

CE is transmitted in JJK because CE is an underlying ontological thing in that verse. In BnHA Deku would just be picking up on physical markers of intent/emotion, which would fall under something already covered by CE.

It's one thing to pick up something like activity in the brain itself or whatever causes ill intent and another to pick up the cursed energy born from those brain activities. Deku doesn't need to do the latter since it doesn't exist to begin with.

Maki does not transmit such information to much better sensors/analyzers than what exists in BnHA. That's my argument.

She doesn't transmit CE since it doesn't exist for her, yeah, but emotions are still there. And as long as she has the intent to hurt Deku, he will sense it and act accordingly.

Yes, CE isn't only "supernatural" it covers physics and spiritual stuff.

Yeah, supernatural.

It ignores physical durability and hits to the "soul" (information") of things, including entities like cursed spirits and inanimate objects.

MHAs inanimate objects don't have a soul. And has she dura negged 6-B durability?

Sounds like they would be good options for ranged attacks, up close finishers, and neutralization.

Yeah, ultimately, she would have to get close and probably get overwhelmed by black whip considering he can release it from multiple parts of his body at the same time.

Also, even if Maki has better AP, she doesn't seem to resist it herself, so I don't think this is a thing it would ultimately matter. I think it comes down to versatility and Deku has more of that.

 

[LordGinSama]

Fa Jin and Black Whip are hard countered by Soul Spilt Katana. Deku tries to defend with black whip? Maki cuts through them. Fa Jin is irrelevant since he can't absorb the KE of the Soul Spilt Katana via contact since it'd kill him instantly.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Fa Jin and Black Whip are hard countered by Soul Spilt Katana. Deku tries to defend with black whip? Maki cuts through them. Fa Jin is irrelevant since he can't absorb the KE of the Soul Spilt Katana via contact since it'd kill him instantly.

Has soul split katana negated 6-B durability? Since it seems like BW scales to it. Also, he doesn't need to tank hits to absorb KE. He can do squats or pretty much any movement and it charges up.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Deku’s Blackwhip strands are as durable as he needs them to be scaling with his own strength.

Precog from Danger Sense completely shuts down Maki hitting him. This alone makes it hard for her to do anything. CE is a separate thing while Danger Sense focuses purely on “malicious intent,” so if she has any negative intentions while going to hit him it will work.

Base Deku in all of his keys is allowed to amp up to 8% and remain 8-A so his Air Force shockwaves nearly one shot Maki. He also gets a speed amp and blitzes Maki.

Deku can make at least 5+ Blackwhip strands from any part of his body and control all of them separately. If he grabs Maki once she’s done.

Fa Jin is a speed and AP amp that would one shot Maki.

Deku can fly so Maki even reaching him is basically impossible if he wants it. He can stay in the air and Air Force blast her and she can’t do anything about it since his predictions will let him hit.

Ahh ok, well then I still think my point remains the same as with Maki, her analytical prediction is based on her heavily restriction giving her extraordinary senses, allowing her to “see” things in a distinct way no one else can. So I still believe her analytical prediction outweighs Deku’s.

Deku’s analytical prediction feats are:

1. Early, baby Deku predicting Gran Torino’s FTE movements to the point that Gran Torino had to use even higher speed to avoid getting hit and still was grazed.



2. Predicting Mirio’s movements after only seeing him fight for 5 seconds to the point he was already going to kick Mirio before he realized Deku predicted him.



3. Predicting Gentle Criminal’s invisible air barrier placement and size so precisely he could snipe one of his Air Force blasts off them at the perfect angle to hit Gentle himself, then kept up with Gentle’s movements despite his prior predictions getting overwhelmed. (He has no special sense to see invisible things his intelligence is just that high)



4. Reverse-tracking Lady Nagant’s bullet trajectories despite her attacks coming from impossible angles due to her own massive analytical predictions feats that involve pre-firing bullets to curve and hit targets that haven’t even gotten to their destination yet. His predictions overwhelmed hers such that he was counter predicting her shots and nearly grabbed her from dozens of meters away.



All of these are sheer intelligence and don’t rely on Danger Sense, which just makes him disgustingly harder to hit.

CE doesn't matter. CE is transmitted in JJK because CE is an underlying ontological thing in that verse. In BnHA Deku would just be picking up on physical markers of intent/emotion, which would fall under something already covered by CE. Maki does not transmit such information to much better sensors/analyzers than what exists in BnHA. That's my argument.

Yes, CE isn't only "supernatural" it covers physics and spiritual stuff.

It ignores physical durability and hits to the "soul" (information") of things, including entities like cursed spirits and inanimate objects.

Sounds like they would be good options for ranged attacks, up close finishers, and neutralization.

Her profile says she has this resistance because she has NO CE. Does she therefore have no emotions at all? If so then yes she would not register on Danger Sense since she would have no malicious intent.

If she has emotions but no CE, then CE is irrelevant as that isn’t what Danger Sense cares for. Danger Sense is sensing things either from your brain or body functions and relaying them as “threat” to the user.

JJK’s power system and MHA’s power system are not compatible enough to equalize unless you believe All For One could steal all Cursed Energy in the world by simply existing if he was in that verse.

Fa Jin and Black Whip are hard countered by Soul Spilt Katana. Deku tries to defend with black whip? Maki cuts through them. Fa Jin is irrelevant since he can't absorb the KE of the Soul Spilt Katana via contact since it'd kill him instantly.

He uses more whips since they are effectively infinite or swaps to Air Force blasts that nearly one shot Maki.

Fa Jin doesn’t work like that at all, lol? Fa Jin absorbs HIS KE by him jumping or punching or squatting. Maki cannot stop him from gaining Fa Jin energy at all and if he gets enough he will blitz her and break every bone in her body with the AP difference it gives him.

 

[SuperStar]

Fa Jin is irrelevant since he can't absorb the KE of the Soul Spilt Katana via contact since it'd kill him instantly.

Bro what

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Her profile says she has this resistance because she has NO CE. Does she therefore have no emotions at all? If so then yes she would not register on Danger Sense since she would have no malicious intent.

If she has emotions but no CE, then CE is irrelevant as that isn’t what Danger Sense cares for. Danger Sense is sensing things either from your brain or body functions and relaying them as “threat” to the user.

JJK’s power system and MHA’s power system are not compatible enough to equalize unless you believe All For One could steal all Cursed Energy in the world by simply existing if he was in that verse.

You put it better than I could lol, but yeah, basically this is my point above.

 

[LordGinSama]

Has soul split katana negated 6-B durability?

6-B durability is irrelevant. Durability doesn't save you from durability negation without having resistance. That's the equivalent of saying Deku can tank a high frequency blade from metal hear because he has high durability.

He uses more whips since they are effectively infinite or swaps to Air Force blasts that nearly one shot Maki.

They definitely aren't infinite in any capacity. That's like me saying logia's have infinite amounts of their elements, not that it stops Maki from cutting them again.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

6-B durability is irrelevant. Durability doesn't save you from durability negation without having resistance. That's the equivalent of saying Deku can tank a high frequency blade from metal hear because he has high durability.

They definitely aren't infinite in any capacity. That's like me saying logia's have infinite amounts of their elements, not that it stops Maki from cutting them again.

Was clear hyperbole. He can spam whips for as long as he can fight and the whips are the least of Maki’s worries when he can use Air Force attacks and nearly one shot her because he amps to over 711 tons by using full cowl.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

And does it allow her to predict, like, 40,000 moves ahead, or simply upcoming threats? (the number is used as an example, don't think too deep about it) It's great that you added all that information, but it doesn't exactly speak to potency on the prediction itself in how far it goes. It would still cancel out via Maki reading Deku's next moves and Deku reading every move by Maki via danger sense. hopefully im not too terrible at explaining what i mean

It allows her to see the dynamic between information in her environment. The range of this is extended for hundreds of meters as you can see here. So essentially, the moment something disturbs an air molecule, a photon, a rock on the floor, makes a noise, etc., it's going to be transmitted into the environment and create a ripple effect. Maki can see those ripples across multiple sensory modalities and beyond the physical/spiritual (quality difference) duality in JJK (which is why she can see the "souls" of cursed spirits and inorganic matter). I'm pretty positive that's well beyond anything in BnHA given it's a purely physical verse.

It's one thing to pick up something like activity in the brain itself or whatever causes ill intent and another to pick up the cursed energy born from those brain activities. Deku doesn't need to do the latter since it doesn't exist to begin with.

Yeah, the problem for you here is that CE covers both of those things. You argument would work of the things present in Bnha weren't already covered by JJK's stuff and not the other way around.

She doesn't transmit CE since it doesn't exist for her, yeah, but emotions are still there. And as long as she has the intent to hurt Deku, he will sense it and act accordingly.

Yeah and HR gives her a special disposition that regular biological humans would not benefit from.

Yeah, supernatural.

Physical and supernatural. Just because supernatural stuff is also covered by CE doesn't negate the fact that CE also covers physical stuff. That's a benefit for JJK interaction, not a detriment.

MHAs inanimate objects don't have a soul. And has she dura negged 6-B durability?

It doesn't matter. The "soul" here is just information type 2 at the end of the day and information is something that scales and covers physical interaction.

Yeah, ultimately, she would have to get close and probably get overwhelmed by black whip considering he can release it from multiple parts of his body at the same time.

That's not really a problem if no skill or stat gap exists. A much less skilled and padded up Yuji could do the same thing while confined in extreme close quarters and Maki literally kill bill'd a room of CqC specialist attacking her from different angles while she had her intestines falling out.

That's why I said skill and sensing will be paramount here.

---

 

[SuperStar]

Deku is already 3 times stronger than Maki and has stackable amps on top of that. Also, Iron soles give off a double impact when connected.

 

[LordGinSama]

Was clear hyperbole. He can spam whips for as long as he can fight and the whips are the least of Maki’s worries when he can use Air Force attacks and nearly one shot her because he amps to over 711 tons by using full cowl.

Air Force attacks are very easily predicted by Maki as her form of Analytical Prediction is specifically tailored to sensing air currents and vibrations.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

6-B durability is irrelevant. Durability doesn't save you from durability negation without having resistance. That's the equivalent of saying Deku can tank a high frequency blade from metal hear because he has high durability.

Not really, there are different types of durability negation. I'm asking why Maki's would be capable of durability negating black whip. Something like high frequency blade would durability negate black whip, yeah.

They definitely aren't infinite in any capacity. That's like me saying logia's have infinite amounts of their elements, not that it stops Maki from cutting them again.

As he clarified, its a hyperbole. Though, she can't cut it if she is restrained to begin with.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Air Force attacks are very easily predicted by Maki as her form of Analytical Prediction is specifically tailored to sensing air currents and vibrations.

Cool, he reverse predicts her like Nagant and hits her anyway or builds up Fa Jin and blitzes because she can’t hit him. Float + Blackwhip + Full Cowl movement negs her entire kit and lets him build up a blitz tier Fa Jin.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Cool, he reverse predicts her like Nagant and hits her anyway or builds up Fa Jin and blitzes because she can’t hit him. Float + Blackwhip + Full Cowl movement negs her entire kit and lets him build up a blitz tier Fa Jin.

He's not doing that with inferior sensing bub.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

He's not doing that with inferior sensing bub.

His sensing > hers in every way. The only thing I’m seeing is her sensing air/temperature and such to predict movements. Deku could predict movements without any of that in wildly inferior key and has gotten so good he can counter predict people with analytical prediction.

If she has good feats I’d like to see them tho.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

His sensing > hers in every way. The only thing I’m seeing is her sensing air/temperature and such to predict movements. Deku could predict movements without any of that in wildly inferior key and has gotten so good he can counter predict people with analytical prediction.

If she has good feats I’d like to see them tho.

I listed them in the post above and explained why they are better. I have yet to see a scan of Deku's sensing though, so I'd appreciate if you could also posts those while responding to my arguments above.