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Since no evaluating mods came so far, please bring me all scans claiming so and which wording you'd want me to use
That way i can put it in the blog and in those TLDRs above, so it is already approved and you can go on with profile creation!
By reworking the OP and reading our tiering system, here's what i think could be proposed by OP (and that an admin could add together with the blog link for convenience sake):
The shorter TLDR, for OP addition
Hyperspace & The Bleed = Low 1-C, 1-C (R^6)
Mr. Mxyzptlk & 5th Dimension = 1-C (R^7)
Star Sapphire's Higher-Dimension Manipulation = 1-C (R^9)
Nth dimension = At least 1-C (R^8), likely High 1-B
Universe = Low 1-A
Multiverse, Darkworld's Nexus and Harbinger of the Anti-Monitor = Low 1-A+
Transcendent worlds:
The End of Time, The Astral Plane, Aethyr and The Middle Place/Limbo = Low 1-A+
The Green = Low 1-A, Possibly Low 1-A+
Wave Of Entropy / Time Trapper = Low 1-A+
Antimatter = Low 1-A+
The longer TLDR, for discussing with the fellas around here
Hyperspace & The Bleed = Low 1-C, 1-C (R^6)
Hyperspace connects 3-D to 4-D, being beyond those
The Bleed is verbatim between layers of reality
Mr. Mxyzptlk & 5th Dimension = 1-C (R^7)
Since they're "two infinities beyond" 3-D they should be beyond Hyperspace and The Bleed as well
Star Sapphire's Higher-Dimension Manipulation = 1-C (R^9)
Considering her 2 infinities above 5th dimension
If there's anyone who scales to 24th dimension of the cosmos = 1-B (R^26)
For being infinities above like 5th dimension and Star Sapphire
Nth dimension = At least 1-C (R^8), likely High 1-B
For the "R^8", it's due to being claimed to be beyond 5th Dimension
For the High 1-B, it's by being stated to "occupy infinite dimensions"
Universe and Rock of Eternity = Low 1-A
Mr. Mxyzptlk says that all universes have a 5th dimension of their own, which should be true for all other aforementioned dimensions as well
The latter can access "all of time and space" so if not entirely in the tier, it should belong with a "Possibly" beside it
Multiverse, Darkworld's Nexus and Harbinger of the Anti-Monitor = Low 1-A+
By the virtue of being comprised of infinite universes and timelines
"the Multiverse comprises a hierarchy of universes in which another universe is referred to as a next dimension of space and an outer space"
The multiverse has infinite layers of existence
Darkworld's Nexus can access all dimensions and worlds of the Multiverse
The latter is verbatim "a library of all realities, timelines, and universes"
Transcendent worlds:
The End of Time, The Astral Plane, Aethyr and The Middle Place/Limbo = At least Low 1-A+
All have some capacity of being "outside of the Universe", lacking time and/or space or just being outside of those
The Green = Low 1-A, Possibly Low 1-A+
Transcending "mathematics and all numbers" may mean The Green is transcending the laws of the Universe, therefore itself, but it is by far the weakest claim of any high tier in this thread. For "The Green being everywhere" being something stated and implied many times by multiple sources (unfortunately outside of this thread) we can at least say it can comprehend all of the Universe
Wave Of Entropy / Time Trapper = Low 1-A+
By being stated to be able to destroy all of the Multiverse, should be on the same tier as it
Antimatter = Low 1-A+
By being stated to being able to destroy the Multiverse and Time Trapper
Hyperspace & The Bleed = Low 1-C: Hyperspace as its name implies is a space beyond the normal 4D universe. (The Bleed is not part of Pre-Crisis cosmology so it does not belong here.)
Mr. Mxyzptlk & 5th Dimension = 1-C: While the statements of two additionally infinites are not from a canon source, the statement is generally correct in relation to Mr Mxyzptlk.
Star Sapphire's Higher-Dimension Manipulation = Does Not Qualify: While there may be 9D statements in relation to Star Sapphire, she has never demonstrated power or feats anywhere near that level as such this does not qualify for a 9D tier.
Nth dimension = Unknown: There are no conclusive statements that can be made about the Nth dimension other than that it is some arbitrary higher dimension of reality.
The Universe = High-1B: The universe in its entirety is stated to have infinite dimensions. NOTE: Most characters DO NOT scale to these dimensions when they are destroying a universe. Almost all feats of universal destruction refer to the normal low-2C space time structure.
The Multiverse / The Anti-Matter Universe = at least High-1B+ possibly Low-1-A: The multiverse contains infinite levels, with each universe itself having infinite dimensions.
Transcendent Realms:
The Astral Plane, Aethyr and The Phantom Zone, and The Dark World = Low 1-A: They are all rated as such since they exist beyond the space time of the conventional multiverse.
Limbo = Low-1A: In the Pre-Crisis era the realm known as Limbo both existed between and around every realm in existence, making it one of if not the highest level of reality.
The Monitor Nexus Satellite = Low-1A: The Monitor Satellite exists in the true Timestream beyond The Green and normal reality.
Fourth World = Low-1A: Fourth World exists beyond space, time, and the multiverse and was unaffected by The Crisis on Infinite Earths. Possibly 1A: If there is evidence that Apokolips and New Genesis can ONLY be accessed by Boom Tube, then Fourth World may exist qualitatively beyond normal reality.
Star Sapphire's Higher-Dimension Manipulation = Does Not Qualify: While there may be 9D statements in relation to Star Sapphire, she has never demonstrated power or feats anywhere near that level as such this does not qualify for a 9D tier.
Nth dimension = Unknown: There are no conclusive statements that can be made about the Nth dimension other than that it is some arbitrary higher dimension of reality.
What about "possibly 1-C at most High 1-B"? You say that the statements aren't conclusive but they do exist, are from a valid source and their claim would make this tiering valid
The Universe = High-1B: The universe in its entirety is stated to have infinite dimensions. NOTE: Most characters DO NOT scale to these dimensions when they are destroying a universe. Almost all feats of universal destruction refer to the normal low-2C space time structure.
I do agree that there should be a definitive basis to "universe destroying claims indeed being tier 1" and there should be a note for such in our cosmology page
however the description does fit our standards for Low 1-A so i don't know why you claim High 1-B for it
We should preferably have some sort of guidelines for what universe-destroying feats are Tier 2 and which ones are Tier 1 in my opinion. Like we should list examples of Tier 2 universal destruction and also some examples of Tier 1 universal destruction. It'd help future DC thread creators to know what to look for.
interesting, i am absurdly new to DC comics so i didn't know it lol
I just kept it there because it was a proposition of OP but this indeed is a veeeeeeeeery weird thing and i am not defending it at all lol
What about "possibly 1-C at most High 1-B"? You say that the statements aren't conclusive but they do exist, are from a valid source and their claim would make this tiering valid
I do agree that there should be a definitive basis to "universe destroying claims indeed being tier 1" and there should be a note for such in our cosmology page
however the description does fit our standards for Low 1-A so i don't know why you claim High 1-B for it
The Bleed is not even originally from DC Comics and was instead created by Warren Ellis and ported over to DC after acquiring Wildstorm. It would later be revamped as a meta space by Grant Morrison.
The statement for the Nth dimension that qualifies for High-1B is the same statement that is used to justify that the universe itself has infinite dimensions, if these are in fact both referring to The Nth Dimension then I guess it could qualify as High-1B.
The Multiverse is High-1B+ as it does not meet the requirements of being a Von Neuman universe which contains every and all mathematical principle as a structure. With additional evidence it could be Low-1A.
The statement for the Nth dimension that qualifies for High-1B is the same statement that is used to justify that the universe itself has infinite dimensions, if these are in fact both referring to The Nth Dimension then I guess it could qualify as High-1B.
from the context that i got, it was reffering to the Nth dimention occupying infinite dimesions
And because the universe itself is qualitatively superior than that (as Nth dimension is part of it) that i firmly believe [Universe = Low 1-A]= True
The Bleed is not even originally from DC Comics and was instead created by Warren Ellis and ported over to DC after acquiring Wildstorm. It would later be revamped as a meta space by Grant Morrison.
The Multiverse is High-1B+ as it does not meet the requirements of being a Von Neuman universe which contains every and all mathematical principle as a structure. With additional evidence it could be Low-1A.
from the context that i got, it was reffering to the Nth dimention occupying infinite dimesions
And because the universe itself is qualitatively superior than that (as Nth dimension is part of it) that i firmly believe [Universe = Low 1-A]= True
Welp, like the Star Sapphire thingy imma just keep it there due to to indeed being part of what OP said
The multiverse is qualitatively superior to being qualitatively superior to High 1-B, so i think it is needed further elaboration for this claim
You mean quantitatively superior not Qualitatively.
1.) just because something is part of a larger structure, this does not automatically mean that the larger structure is a tier higher. In this instance while the Nth Dimension is within the higher dimensions of the universe, this just makes the universe as a whole higher into the High-1B tier.
2.) Sure keep it there for now, but yeah she definitely does not have feats on that level.
3.) like with point 1, just because a large structure contains these lower structures does not mean that it gets a higher tier. You could have a universe be High-1B, and then an infinite series of higher realities that have themselves have infinite levels. You could repeat that an infinite number of times and do so again an infinite number of times on into infinity. This still would not get you from High-1B+ to Low-1A. There are certain metrics that have to be met to get from High-1B+ to Low-1A. At the moment, these metrics nave not been met; however, if you or other users can find or are aware of statements where the multiverse in its entirety is said to be: transdimensional, beyond dimensions, other similar statements, or beyond mathematics, than it would have a Low-1A rating.
At the moment, these metrics nave not been met; however, if you or other users can find or are aware of statements where the multiverse in its entirety is said to be: transdimensional, beyond dimensions, other similar statements, or beyond mathematics, than it would have a Low-1A rating.
The multiverse is beyond the universe, for starters
The green is stated to be beyond mathematics, all other Transcendent Realms claim to not have dimensionaliy or similars too
So even if for some weird reason you don't consider the universe qualitatively superior to the Nth dimension contained in it, the Multiverse and the Transcendent Realms are verbatim meeting all possible criteria (both my TLDR and the created blog showcase such)
does not by itself imply that the universe is qualitatively superior to that space. It only implies that the universe includes it. To conclude qualitative superiority, you would need an additional premise—for example, that the universe exists at a higher ontological level, has a higher set-theoretic rank in a relevant sense, or transcends the Nth Dimension rather than merely containing it.
By that it is clear that Universe and Nth Dimension are both High 1-B with all evidence we have ATM
But Multiverse and Transcendent Realms 100% are Low 1-A
The problem is The Green is one of the higher realms that exists beyond the multiverse. While it does transcend math, the multiverse is below it so that statement does not apply to it.
As I said, I am sure that there are statements that would make the Multiverse Low-1A, but at the moment it is not. When I have time I will try to find some.
The problem is The Green is one of the higher realms that exists beyond the multiverse. While it does transcend math, the multiverse is below it so that statement does not apply to it.
The Green's statement doesn't but we do have a statement saying that the multiverse is qualitatively superior to universes, by them being to it like a dimension is to the universe, and the multiverse being comprised of infinite universes
If you can find further supporting evidence i won't be one to not welcome it/them, but we're definietely already able to say Multiverse>Universe qualitatively speaking
I... this your still green to quality and quantity
Basically quantity is that you can train as much as you want to reach a level of power
Quality means you're born with it and it cannot be taken away or matched by lower levels being above petty things like trainings ability to reach for you are above the plateau
I mean it's prolly butchered or extremely wrong as how I put it but it's the easiest I can come up with
I... this your still green to quality and quantity
Basically quantity is that you can train as much as you want to reach a level of power
Quality means you're born with it and it cannot be taken away or matched by lower levels being above petty things like trainings ability to reach for you are above the plateau
I mean it's prolly butchered or extremely wrong as how I put it but it's the easiest I can come up with
Ok, i can get to what is the difference if them
i can't apply the difference to what i'm saying at all
Multiverse being qualitatively superior than Universe is clear to me, the universes were already proven to be infinitely stacking as part of the multiverse and it also including the space between said universes
So saying it is beyond the infinitely stacking layers which are the universes does not sound wild
Ok, i can get to what is the difference if them
i can't apply the difference to what i'm saying at all
Multiverse being qualitatively superior than Universe is clear to me, the universes were already proven to be infinitely stacking as part of the multiverse and it also including the space between said universes
So saying it is beyond the infinitely stacking layers which are the universes does not sound wild
Nonynho, I think you're misinterpreting what a qualitative superiority means on the wiki. 1-A doesn't come from encompassing any amount of space, universes, realms, concepts, or anything like that. A multiverse could encompass an uncountable infinite amount of uncountable infinite Low 1-A universes as well as the space that is between those universes and contains them all. This multiverse still wouldn't be 1-A. A 1-A realm exists in a state beyond and transcendent to all possible extensions of physicality and measurable phenomena. In comparison to a 1-A realm, every single possible level of every lower tier is non-existent. A 1-A realm cannot be reached through any possible extension of any multiplicative or additive processes.
Nonynho, I think you're misinterpreting what a qualitative superiority means on the wiki. 1-A doesn't come from encompassing any amount of space, universes, realms, concepts, or anything like that. A multiverse could encompass an uncountable infinite amount of uncountable infinite Low 1-A universes as well as the space that is between those universes and contains them all. This multiverse still wouldn't be 1-A. A 1-A realm exists in a state beyond and transcendent to all possible extensions of physicality and measurable phenomena. In comparison to a 1-A realm, every single possible level of every lower tier is non-existent. A 1-A realm cannot be reached through any possible extension of any multiplicative or additive processes.
Yes but "beyond High 1-B" is low 1-A
And what people are saying is that we're lacking evidence that "Multiverse is beyond universe" even though we have evidence that it contains infinite universes and the space that is beyond them
Therefore enough to be considered low 1-A
So you can contain a space that is beyond High 1-B together with infinite High 1-B structures and still not be beyond High 1-B? How is that not paradoxical?
Now you have a grasp of how truly busted tier 1-A is, if containing infinite universes with infinite dimensions and still being a space and time beyond it but of the same nature but obviously greater is low 1-A.
Yes but "beyond High 1-B" is low 1-A
And what people are saying is that we're lacking evidence that "Multiverse is beyond universe" even though we have evidence that it contains infinite universes and the space that is beyond them
Therefore enough to be considered low 1-A
Now you have a grasp of how truly busted tier 1-A is, if containing infinite universes with infinite dimensions and still being a space and time beyond it but of the same nature but obviously greater is low 1-A.
Are you aware of any Pre-Crisis statements that state that Fourth World (either Apokolips or New Genesis) is only accessible by Boom Tube? If there is evidence that it is completely unreachable by other beings of the multiverse, than Pre-Crisis Fourth World could be 1A.
There is no such a thing as Low-1A+ only Low-1A. The problem is that the universes do not have evidence of being Low-1A. They are High-1B in their entirety. The multiverse of course contains infinite universes. On top of that there are infinite levels to the multiverse with the aforementioned High-1B universes being just the first level. While this is quite extreme, even with infinite levels which themselves have infinite levels, this is not enough to get to Low-1A. This is solidly High-1B+. Neither the universe or the multiverse are transdimensional in nature nor do they contain a structure that is equivalent to a Von Neuman universe as such it is limited to High-1B+.
Nice. There are probably multiple such examples in Pre-Crisis continuity. They just need to be found and complied in order to have consistency for a 1A rating.
I know that in the example you provided from Justice League of America Vol1 #183 that the JLA and JSA only made it to New Genesis via the machinations of Metron which adds more credence to it being unreachable by any other means.
The problem is that the universes do not have evidence of being Low-1A. They are High-1B in their entirety. The multiverse of course contains infinite universes. On top of that there are infinite levels to the multiverse with the aforementioned High-1B universes being just the first level. While this is quite extreme, even with infinite levels which themselves have infinite levels, this is not enough to get to Low-1A. This is solidly High-1B+. Neither the universe or the multiverse are transdimensional in nature nor do they contain a structure that is equivalent to a Von Neuman universe as such it is limited to High-1B+.
Multiverse contains the space that is also beyond those universes as well, since there is the possibility to travel between Globular/Spherical Universes by breaking the dimensional barrier and "changing your hyperspatial unit"
#The first layer of material reality [https://ibb.co/TxpHLQ3d is known as the Spherical Universe, and can be accessed by going to measures far beyond the speed of light. There are other cosmos, and other globular universes; green, blue, white, purple, etc...], and in a conversation with Captain Bill Martin, it is revealed that [https://ibb.co/rGPNTyT0 the Multiverse comprises a hierarchy of universes in which another universe is referred to as a next dimension of space and an outer space. Globular universes are different from parallel universes like Earth-2], as they are invisible and [https://ibb.co/jPBFypjX require the dimensional barrier to be broken to be accessed]. To enter here, [https://ibb.co/84fV7yp3 the being would have to change its "hyperspatial" unit, which refers to spaces with more dimensions than the traditional three spatial dimensions]
##Mystery in Space (1951) #49 & #52
So inside Multiverse there are infinite High 1-B structures layered upon one another and low 1-A space, which can be traversed for someone to travel between those High 1-B structures, then how is it not Low 1-A by definition?
If this space between them was also beyond the multiverse this would have to be stated as well, much like the Transcendent Realms are
Then Multiverse and Transcendent Realms are both Low 1-A by virtue of being beyond High 1-B but definetely not 1-A
Multiverse contains the space that is also beyond those universes as well, since there is the possibility to travel between Globular/Spherical Universes by breaking the dimensional barrier and "changing your hyperspatial unit"
So inside Multiverse there are infinite High 1-B structures layered upon one another and low 1-A space, which can be traversed for someone to travel between those High 1-B structures, then how is it not Low 1-A by definition?
If this space between them was also beyond the multiverse this would have to be stated as well, much like the Transcendent Realms are
it is refering to changing the hyperspatial unit, not to go from spatial to hyperspatial
"change the hyperspatial unit" is quite literally meaning changing in which space-time you are, which is totally what i am saying because one doing that would be doing the "travel between High 1-B structures" i talked about
