- 25,093
- 27,267
Continued from here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-comics-the-legendary-dc-heralds-upgrade.147343/
Any derailing will be deleted. You have been warned.
At Firestorm's suggestion, moving the Green Lantern stuff here for cohesion.
Any derailing will be deleted. You have been warned.
At Firestorm's suggestion, moving the Green Lantern stuff here for cohesion.
3-C
- Flodo encompasses and destroys an evil Galaxy(Green Lantern Corps Vol. 1 #219, December 1987)
High 3-A
Green Lantern- Hal's ring is a conduit to Infinity(Green Lantern Vol. 3 #1, June 1990)
- Mogo is also said to have Limitless Power (Green Lantern Vol. 3 #159, April 2003)
- Hal Jordan created Willworld, an entire Universe inside his ring that's described as an Infinite Sea(Green Lantern: Willworld, July 2001)
- This is said to be something in all Lantern's rings (Green Lantern: Willworld, July 2001)
- Kyle Rayner is also stated to have a world with no end inside his ring (Green Lantern Vol. 3 #80, November 1996)
- Hal Jordan having a Universe inside his ring was brought back up in Rebirth (The Green Lantern Vol. 1 #7, July 2019)
- Ion has Infinite Power(Green Lantern Vol. 3 #146, March 2002)
- Nero with Ion's power also had the power of the Universe (Green Lantern Vol. 3 #145, February 2002)
- The Human Lanterns were able to fight Guardians with the powers of the Emotional Entities (Green Lantern Vol. 4 #67, August 2011), with Entity-level scaling overall being consistent
- Hal Jordan sent tremors across the entire Emotional Spectrum (Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps September, 2016), which has been called an infinite web of interlinked planes and realms (The DC Book: A Vast and Vibrant Multiverse Simply Explained, November, 2021)
- Hal Jordan stops a bomb that could affect all matter in the Universe and destroy it (The Green Lantern Vol. 1 #6, June 2019)
Low 2-C
Green Lantern- The GLC Central Battery can become as large as and destroy the entire Universe(Green Lantern Corps Vol. 1 #224, May 1988)
- Hal Jordan has survived attacks from Sinestro possessing the Central Battery (Green Lantern Corps Vol. 1 #224, May 1988)
- Superman survived attacks from and matches Molly (Justice League Vol. 4 #19, May 2019) with the power of the Central Battery and other sources (Justice League Vol. 4 #17, April 2019)
- Ganthet creates a construct to shield himself from the Big Bang (Green Lantern: Ganthet's Tale, November 1992)
- Kyle Rayner survives being blasted by the Zero Hour Big Bang (Zero Hour: Crisis in Time #0, September 1994)
- Guardians and Controllers have Big Bang level power(Justice League: A Midsummer's Nightmare Vol. 1 #3, November 1996)
- As mentioned before, human Lanterns have fought Guardians when they were amped. They also fought and overpowered the Controllers before being mind controlled (Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps Vol. 1 #36, March 2018). Hal also believes he could defeat someone who defeated the Guardians (Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps Vol. 1 #32, January 2018), with Guardians being compared in power to individual power batteries (Doomsday Annual, December 1995).
- Kyle Rayner and Anarky reverse the warping of the universe. (Anarky Vol. 2 #3, July 1999)
- Ion could remake the Universe (Green Lantern Vol. 3 #145, February 2002)
- The Guardians believed Kyle Rayner could kill Alan Scott possessed by the Starheart, (Justice League of America Vol. 2 #47, September 2010), and fought an Obsidian/Jade merge (Justice League of America Vol. 2 #48, October 2010), both the halves of the light and dark of the Starheart(Justice Society of America Vol. 3 #42, October 2010), while gradually losing power
- The Starheart can obliterate reality (DC Comics Official Website)
2-C, possibly 2-A
Hal Jordan- Hal Jordan knocks off Spectre (Crispus Allen)'s jaw, staggering him and freeing the Guardians, and stabs him with help from the Guardians (Green Lantern Vol. 4 #50, March 2010)
- Hal Jordan defeats Krona (Green Lantern Vol. 4 #67, August 2011), who had the power of the Emotional Entities (Green Lantern Vol. 4 #64, May 2011)
- Tier 2 Peak (Via Butcher Encounter) < Krona (Feels pain from Atrocitus' Napalm breath and bite to his neck) < Peak Hal (Blew through Krona's chest)
Next up is Krona scaling. The first thing to note is this refutation:
As for Hal being on this level being an Outlier, he harmed Black Lantern Crispus, and normal Crispus has fought the Butcher, a weaker Hal has taken attacks from a possessed GLC power battery, he fought the Predator, multiple GLs fought the Guardians with the Entities, Atrocitus fought the Butcher, Hal survived Krona attacking him with the Entities, etc. It's pretty consistent for them to scale to this level, especially in Geoff John's run.
Just to keep in mind, at this point, Hal has fought Sinestro, Lobo, Atrocitus, Larfleeze, Predator, and Parallax Flash, with some of these being extended fights where Hal is clearly harmed, so it should be fair to say this isn't Hal at his full power, and this would explain why Hal does so much better later in the arc. As for this:
This is quite blatantly not true. We literally see Hal make the plan to contact the entities to remove them from the Guardians, which Hal gets Kyle to do by drawing in Krona's book, with Krona still overriding their usage of the rings. At this point, we see Krona get all the rings, and he seemingly attacks Hal with all the entities on panel. On top of this, the entities are only freed after Hal defeats Krona, so it's pretty clear Krona was still controlling them.
As for Hal being on this level being an Outlier, he harmed Black Lantern Crispus, and normal Crispus has fought the Butcher, a weaker Hal has taken attacks from a possessed GLC power battery, he fought the Predator, multiple GLs fought the Guardians with the Entities, Atrocitus fought the Butcher, Hal survived Krona attacking him with the Entities, etc. It's pretty consistent for them to scale to this level, especially in Geoff John's run.
Now I'll look into two other controversial Hal feats that could be used for this upgrade.
Starting off, we have Hal Jordan knocking off Black Lantern Crispus Allen's jaw in Green Lantern #50. Let's take a look at why this is rejected:
Starting off, we have Hal Jordan knocking off Black Lantern Crispus Allen's jaw in Green Lantern #50. Let's take a look at why this is rejected:
This is kind of hilarious, as obviously it takes lot of power to knock someone's jaw off, and is clearly recoiling as well. Saying that "Lanterns attacked him to no real effect" is also odd, as one of the scans linked has Spectre being stabbed through and yelling. At the very least, Hal does better than the Big Bang level Guardians, who get overpowered pretty quickly and easily. Also, the Lanterns needing Parallax can just be because Crispus was endlessly regenerating, not because he was more powerful than them. Next we have the feat of containing the Universe-threatening U-Bomb in The Green Lantern #6.
Limiting this feat to Large Star level is a bit odd. We know the detonation would've affected all matter in DC's Infinite Universe, so it likely should be a High Universal feat. The recorded output being 10^44 joules doesn't really limit much, as it's phrased as limited information and it's said to be "an energy output" rather than "the energy output", so it could be one of many. And while it is true that Hal used energy from the Central Power Battery, it's unlikely this is much of an amp, considering previously mentioned scaling.
Are all the Green Lanterns together really only Galaxy level? Feat here comes from Green Lantern #25. Let's take a look.
First thing to look into is the statement for it being Galactic. This is legit, but it's really questionable if this is the maximum range of it, or at least the maximum potency. Let's take a similar example with Monarch, after Superboy Prime breaches his armor, a Universe destroying explosion comes out, and knocks out the 2-C, possibly 2-A Prime. The wiki reasonably treats this as a 2-C, possibly 2-A feat on Atom's page, showing the Wiki excepts the idea of explosions like these having potency greater than their range. Not only this, but something that envelops the Universe would also cover the Milky Way Galaxy, so while nothing states this to be higher, there's no real reason to say this is the limit to it either.
On top of this, let's look into the Lanterns involved. While there's a lot of big names there, Hal and Kyle are off fighting Sinestro, so it's not like literally every Lantern was there. Not to mention, they're literally in the middle of a war against the Sinestro Corps. Hal and Kyle even approach 0% energy, and the Lanterns that contain it are all seemingly scratched up. On top of this, many of the Green Lanterns still had energy left and continued to fight Prime, so they clearly didn't use all of their energy to do this.
In conclusion, nothing actually caps the bomb at Galaxy level. Its range is never limited, and even if it was only Galactic, its potency could be higher. It's also important to take into consideration the state of the Lanterns performing this feat, as many of them were at low levels, or would at least want to conserve energy, which would be a good reason to have as many contribute as possible. Even with this, some big names like Hal and Kyle were absent from this, and many of the ones who were didn't exhaust all their energy.
First thing to look into is the statement for it being Galactic. This is legit, but it's really questionable if this is the maximum range of it, or at least the maximum potency. Let's take a similar example with Monarch, after Superboy Prime breaches his armor, a Universe destroying explosion comes out, and knocks out the 2-C, possibly 2-A Prime. The wiki reasonably treats this as a 2-C, possibly 2-A feat on Atom's page, showing the Wiki excepts the idea of explosions like these having potency greater than their range. Not only this, but something that envelops the Universe would also cover the Milky Way Galaxy, so while nothing states this to be higher, there's no real reason to say this is the limit to it either.
On top of this, let's look into the Lanterns involved. While there's a lot of big names there, Hal and Kyle are off fighting Sinestro, so it's not like literally every Lantern was there. Not to mention, they're literally in the middle of a war against the Sinestro Corps. Hal and Kyle even approach 0% energy, and the Lanterns that contain it are all seemingly scratched up. On top of this, many of the Green Lanterns still had energy left and continued to fight Prime, so they clearly didn't use all of their energy to do this.
In conclusion, nothing actually caps the bomb at Galaxy level. Its range is never limited, and even if it was only Galactic, its potency could be higher. It's also important to take into consideration the state of the Lanterns performing this feat, as many of them were at low levels, or would at least want to conserve energy, which would be a good reason to have as many contribute as possible. Even with this, some big names like Hal and Kyle were absent from this, and many of the ones who were didn't exhaust all their energy.
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