DBZ speeds

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

You're GTgokussj4 right?...

I remember saying that and by disagreeing with that method you mean you disagree with using cinematic time right?...

 

[AllanSaiyan]

You're GTgokussj4 right?...
I remember saying that and by disagreeing with that method you mean you disagree with using cinematic time right?...

Yea basically.

 

[Jeune_fou]

Found the old calc we used for piccolo's moon bust (Credit goes to KuuIchigo for finding this). Only thing that needs to be done is making some changes on the profiles using this calc...
We should wait for Lord Kavpeny's reply on this before doing anything though...

Also just wanna put this out here. Currently I have no interest in explaining why the timeframe from the manga should be used nor do I wish to have a debate for using cinematic time so I'll let everyone else handle that...

I didn't know he used something precise like that http://www.mrmont.com/teachers/physicsteachershelper-proj.html to calculate the time frame. If the 17.84 seconds is correct then I have nothing to say.

I wanted to know how he did the calc (because I didn't have the link to that calc) for the time frame. it seems accurate so the best thing to do is to keep using this as a reference for speeds in dbs.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Alrighty then... I'm glad this is going peacefully then...

All that's left now is Kav's input here on upgrading the AP stats...

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

ok if we use 17.84 seconds, then we will also have to revise AP, subbing in 17.84 seconds instead of 60 seconds in chaos's calc gives almost 3.49*10^32 J

so mid training piccolo = planet level... ( ͡o ͜ʖ ͡o)

 

[AllanSaiyan]

ok if we use 17.84 seconds, then we will also have to revise AP, subbing in 17.84 seconds instead of 60 seconds in chaos's calc gives almost 3.49*10^32 J
so mid training piccolo = planet level... ( ͡o ͜ʖ ͡o)

Yep -__- and the funny thing is that we have to revise the Saiyan Saga stats again, this is like the 3rd or 4th time.

 

[Alexcar3000]

ok if we use 17.84 seconds, then we will also have to revise AP, subbing in 17.84 seconds instead of 60 seconds in chaos's calc gives almost 3.49*10^32 J
so mid training piccolo = planet level... ( ͡o ͜ʖ ͡o)

Yep -__- and the funny thing is that we have to revise the Saiyan Saga stats again, this is like the 3rd or 4th time.

*cough* inb4 another DBS flashback amps them again *cough*

Why would that happen? I dunno.

Well, I have a question... does that put the Ginyu Force at 5-A?

 

[AllanSaiyan]

• cough* inb4 another DBS flashback amps them again *cough*

Why would that happen? I dunno.

Well, I have a question... does that put the Ginyu Force at 5-A?

Maybe Captain Ginyu only.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

• cough* inb4 another DBS flashback amps them again *cough*

Why would that happen? I dunno.

Well, I have a question... does that put the Ginyu Force at 5-A?

IF mid training piccolo gets recalced to 5-B, thhen i wud hope that ginyu force goes back to 5-A

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

• cough* inb4 another DBS flashback amps them again *cough*

Why would that happen? I dunno.

Well, I have a question... does that put the Ginyu Force at 5-A?

Maybe Captain Ginyu only.

bruh mid training pickle man wud be like 1.4 x earth level u only need to be like over 33x stronger than that to be 5-A

i think IF piccolo gets boosted, then 5-A ginyu force wud be fair

 

[Alexcar3000]

• cough* inb4 another DBS flashback amps them again *cough*

Why would that happen? I dunno.

Well, I have a question... does that put the Ginyu Force at 5-A?

Maybe Captain Ginyu only.

bruh mid training pickle man wud be like 1.4 x earth level u only need to be like over 33x stronger than that to be 5-A
i think IF piccolo gets boosted, then 5-A ginyu force wud be fair

Mmm, how does this sound?

• Guldo = Planet level (maybe add a + since he's like, x10 stronger than post training Piccolo)

• Recoome, Jeice and Burter = at least Planet level+

• Ginyu = Large Planet level

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

• cough* inb4 another DBS flashback amps them again *cough*

Why would that happen? I dunno.

Well, I have a question... does that put the Ginyu Force at 5-A?

Maybe Captain Ginyu only.

bruh mid training pickle man wud be like 1.4 x earth level u only need to be like over 33x stronger than that to be 5-A
i think IF piccolo gets boosted, then 5-A ginyu force wud be fair

Mmm, how does this sound?

• Guldo = Planet level (maybe add a + since he's like, x10 stronger than post training Piccolo)

• Recoome, Jeice and Burter = at least Planet level+

• Ginyu = Large Planet level

... lets talk about that later on in a future thred

rite now we need to see which time frame is fixed and then when that is done, i will post a calc regarding AP changes

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

ok.. so are we using the 17.84 seconds as we are so far... and if so, then can i make a formal re calc based on that time ?

 

[Antvasima]

You will have to wait for Lord Kavpeny.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

There no need to re calc the feat. All that needs to be done is to modify the AP stats using this calc (Oh and this is the calc we used before Naruto Forums crashed.)...

But as Antvasima said we should wait for Lord Kavpeny...

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

There no need to re calc the feat. All that needs to be done is to modify the AP stats using this calc (Oh and this is the calc we used before Naruto Forums crashed.)...

^^^^^^ basically what i meant

the result wud be 5-B piccolo and hence a visible upgradde

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Ho alrighty then...

Well I guess this thread can be closed soon...

Although I do wonder what would happen if someone brought up the few iffy things about that calc though...

 

[LordAizenSama]

This is kind of silly how we've changed this specific lot up and down for the last 2 weeks. I think this is the fourth revision.

So let's make it absolutely clear that we're going with this one and that no other changes are needed.

And of course make sure that this one is the right one.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree that Dragon Ball tends to take up 10x as much of our time as any other franchise. It is turning extremely tiresome.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

I agree that Dragon Ball tends to take up 10x as much of our time as any other franchise. It is turning extremely tiresome.

this wudnt have happened if we used a consistent time for speed and AP

 

[Kavpeny]

With help from Azathoth, I have now understood the issue in its entirety.


There are problems with accepting Chaos' calc, namely:

• The time-frame is a blind assumption.
  • Hence, the result could be anything, from an accurate value (unlikely), to extreme low-end, to extreme high-end (it's likely an extreme low-end).
  • There is no justification as to why we're selecting a time-frame of 1-5 minutes, instead of any other random value.
  • It requires believing that Piccolo meanders about without doing anything for 1-5 minutes, as Oozaru Gohan rampages freely.
• Accepting the calc would mess up DBZ Saiyan Saga speeds completely.
  • Accepting the calc for AP, but not for Speed would also be illogical.
• Most importantly however, it might cause fans of other franchises to also request accepting calcs involving random time-frame assumptions, on the premise that we accepted Chaos' calc. That in itself would cause an endless amount of debating about the validity of aforementioned assumptions (for every such calc, at that), and bring into question the validity of every calc result.

That is not to say however, that the 17 second calc is perfect. It also has some ambiguities, namely:

• What was assumed in the calc to be debris could also very easily be stars (simply little white dots against the night sky), and the larger chunks which were assumed to have been thrown up by Piccolo's attack could also have been from Oozaru Gohan's hand in the previous panel.
• Another potential issue was the assumption that Oozaru Gohan would not begin to transform back until the moon was completely destroyed, and that it happened almost instantly, while others argued that he easily could have begun to revert as soon as the moon began to break apart and explode.
• Also, the blast speed would be an obvious outlier due to nothing else coming close to it for like another saga and a half.

In essence, both calcs have certain flaws, and accepting either of the two would result in us conceding as much. However, accepting Chaos' calc would be a green-light to accepting blind assumptions, which could be catastrophic in terms of the accuracy and credibility of calc results.
We cannot implement the 60-second calc due to the sheer irrationality and vagueness of the base premise (although it is perfectly accurate as a minimum low-end assumption).

As such, we will accept the time-frame of 17.84 seconds, while conceding the potential flaws of the calc (in the form of a note on the Verse page). It's not a perfect solution, but the 17 second calc, while based on some (valid) assumptions, yields discrete values on the basis of concrete principles, instead of values derived from principles marred by guess-work.

Two things which should be noted in particular, for accepting the 17-second calc:

• The first three assumptions (a.k.a. white dots being debris, the larger chunks being thrown up by Piccolo's attack and Oozaru Gohan's transformation reverting as soon as the soon as the moon began to break) are presumed to be true.

Also note that:

• The 4 second time-frame using cinematic time also suffers from the same problems as the 17 second calc, hence it will not be considered in place of the 17 second calc for either speed or AP.

The upgrades post accepting the 17 second calc are listed here.

P.S.: To all members waiting for a verdict, I thank you for your patience.

P.P.S.: There is nothing else to be discussed in this thread, hence I will be closing it.