DBS Possible Resistance Scaling

[Therefir]

If Frieza was the only one who resist the EE, I accept that wouldn't be able to scale to anyone, but Goku resist it, while in base.

 

[Kaltias]

Without feats? No.

We never did the "It's obvious that if X fought this fodder they would win so they resist the haxes". Or "this fodder resisted this technique so there is no way it would work on this guy who is stronger"

 

[Therefir]

But frieza resist it by powering up, later come beerus and just blow it with a breeze.

 

[Kaltias]

So? It could mean that the Golden Form resists EE. Did Wish needed to resist the Hakai in order to OHKO Beerus? No, he didn't. Because stomping someone can easily be done via AP advantage and speed. Hax resistance isn't necessary.

 

[Therefir]

And the greatest problem is how Goku is able to resist existense erasure in the first place?, the only way to answer this is that he resist the EE with Ki, and Frieza was able to overcome it because he was transformed in golden.

 

[Kaltias]

Or he could resist it via gaining a resistance out of nowhere just like 80% of the resistances on the wiki.

 

[Therefir]

*snip*

"He die before he get to use the hax" is not a argument.

 

[Therefir]

Or he could resist it via gaining a resistance out of nowhere just like 80% of the resistances on the wiki.

In dragon ball doesn't work like that, if has been numerous times that characters resist haxes with raw power, that ones should be scale to everyone.

 

[Kaltias]

Except that it is?

You know why we don't give to every "omnipotent" (read as "massively above everyone else") of their verse resistance to absolutely everything in their verse even if they would utterly demolish everyone? Because we assume that people would die before using their hax

 

[AguilaR101]

eh, that's a poor example because omnipotent characters are by definition capable of enduring absolutely everything without exception.

 

[Kaltias]

Then we are back to the beginning. Either there is an explicit statement "It's because he is strong" or no scaling

 

[Therefir]

First in this verse needs to be this hax can be resisted with raw power, only with that the most powerful being should be able to resist this hax because he is vastly stronger than the guy who resist the hax with Raw power (And with this I refers that he resisted with Ki for example, or a common energy of the verse).

 

[Kaltias]

@Aguila

Well I meant it more as "in-verse omnipotent which is immensely above everything in the setting". Not tier 0

 

[Therefir]

Also, if vegeta wasn't able to break absolute zero in his base form, but broke the ice transforming into super saiyan, the ssj form only gives power and speed, meaning that he overcome the AZ with raw power alone.

 

[Kaltias]

Except that it doesn't work that way and it could. mean that the SSJ gives resistance to AZ, for example

 

[Therefir]

Ssj doesn't give resistance to AZ, who allows vegeta resist AZ is his raw power.

 

[Therefir]

It's simple, if Vegeta was naturally resistant to AZ, why gaining more power transforming into ssj will give him a better resistance?, easy, because it was the raw power that the ssj gives to him.

 

[AguilaR101]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRn4v7HzAhw

The assumption that raw power is what helped him avoid is faulty because it's never stated to be the reason he resisted it.

He could've resisted it because of his suit which is supposed to give him special protection. He could've resisted it because he had his ki shield up before he got hit by the attack.

 

[Therefir]

The suits giving special protection is even more assumption and he clearly doesn't have the ki shield, since you can see it when he is using it, also makes more sense that was the raw power that helped him to break the ice, since he transformed into ssj.

 

[AguilaR101]

No, he clearly has his shield before he gets hit.

 

[Golden_Void]

Don't ruin the thread with crackpot theories..

Vegeta's ki shield wasn't active when he got hit by the AZ, and even if it was, it doesn't change the fact that it was still directly on his arm.

 

[Therefir]

Before, you said it, after that he doesn't have it, anyway vegeta clearly says: Did you thinks such a thing would keep my power in check?, later he transforms into ssj and broke the ice, meaning that was his power who helps him to resist the AZ.

 

[Golden_Void]

http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/tv/dragon_s/chara/chapter4/no09.html

Also Hyssop's body itself is absolute zero, and Vegeta continues to pummel him as a Super Saiyan.

 

[AKM sama]

I can't imagine a scenario where Hyssop attacks both Goku and Vegeta, and while Goku cries in pain and dies, Vegeta stands there laughing and saying "HAHAHA, I resisted Absolute Zero because I have the royal blood. I am the prince of all saiyans!!!".

Anyone here thinks that this would've happened? Honest answers only.

 

[Therefir]

*snip*

Lol, that means if anyone who isn't vegeta, attack hyssop, would be ******* dead..., according to others logic.

 

[Kaltias]

Honest answer? I think that it never happened so we can't know. If we can't know we can't give the resistance to everyone.

 

[Golden_Void]

Anyone here thinks that this would've happened? Honest answers only.

-crickets-

 

[Golden_Void]

1. As the ice builds, his shield is gone

2. It literally doesn't matter, and further strengthens the resistance argument if it were to be used.

@Aguila

 

[AKM sama]

Honest answer? I think that it never happened so we can't know. If we can't know we can't give the resistance to everyone.

But I thought we were allowed to make reasonable assumptions especially when the counter assumption makes no sense given the circumstances and mechanics.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Characters do not need to have resistances in order to defeat weaker opponents, Angels for example could whoop the asses of their GoD's before they even got a chance to use Hakai, they don't necessarily have to be able to resist all of their techniques.

Unless there is a explicit relation shown between powerlevels and these resistances they should not be scaled.

Exactly my point. Stronger charactets wouldnt really need the resistances to fodders hax if they're able to curb them without even trying. And in DBS's case we're also talking about Low 2-C's, who're stronger by literally an infinite number of times. Getting rid of all logical scenerios of what would happen when fodder faced non-fodder is just suiting the purpose of the argument. Not to mention we could apply this reasoning to so many verses.

By this logic, all legendary pokemon would get the resistances non-legendaries have. Or in Naruto, Kaguya gets the resistances that weaker shinobi have. And moee.

 

[Therefir]

That's true, but there are relation between power and certain resistances.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Maybe, but even in the verse itself the notion of DB characters resisting hax with power is very inconsistent.

 

[Mania568]

saying you cant give resistences to all that are stronger than said character when they simply power up to get out of the hax and we know their power up itself has 0 ties to getting immunities&resistences as ssj doesnt do that and was never inplied it did, one thing people are doing is comparing db verse to all the others, db verse is all about power and powering up out of any hax if the power is great enough, as an exception if should be treated as such, people finding excuses that it isnt power when all vegeta did was enter ssj that isnt right, im not saying give it a go this thread without giving it a though but people are disreguarding it when it was stated and proven that db verse it always happens like that, hax have a limit they can take before they stop working, so powering up above said levels breaks/stops the hax.

now the creator needs to have all the peanut gallery say "he resisted because of power" by 3 different people for someone here to believe it? the powering up to get out of the hax should be proof enough as the hax worked, then said character power up and stopped working, were's the difficulty here? he could have gotten resistance in that moment would only work on EE here.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

First point is very wrong because there are multiple examples of hax>power in DB itself.

Second, we're using other verses as examples to show why this wouldn't work, plus whats stated above. Heck we don't even do this for Bleach or Saint Seiya when Reitsu/Cosmos>whatever for them.

 

[Therefir]

I don't think we should use other verses, since Dragon ball hax its weird.

 

[HrishikeshM]

I'll just give my views on this even if they don't matter much lol
1. As the feat suggested, base Goku was struggling to resist EE while True Golden Frieza did it relatively very easily. So it does suggest that it is linked with power and anyone above base Goku would have replicated the feat under those circumstances. And that's why OBD decided to give others resistance to EE too. But that doesn't mean anyone above base Goku or even True Golden Frieza can resist Zeno's EE. Like I said in that other staff thread, every hax has a limit and it should be established everytime. Similarly one can't say Vegeta wil be affected by a 8-C's EE if the 8-C has never shown to do it on a 3-A. I know it makes things very complicated, but that's how it is.

2. As Absolute Zero is a fixed quantity and it can't vary from user to user, I strongly agree with this point. I can't imagine a scenario where Hyssop attacks both Goku and Vegeta, and while Goku cries in pain and dies, Vegeta stands there laughing and saying "HAHAHA, I resisted Absolute Zero because I have the royal blood. I am the prince of all saiyans!!!". Seriously, Absolute Zero affects the target only physically. So if Vegeta being at a certain physical calibre can lolnope its effects, anyone who is physically as capable as Vegeta should be able to do it too.

3. It is true that Goku resisted Hit's time stop just by powering up, but then Hit affected Goku again by powering up himself. My opinion about this is same as 1.

4. I would also like to add a point which HrishikeshM brought up. Buu successfully transmuted everyone who were considered fodder, but when he tried to transmute someone like Vegito, he failed...somewhat. This insinuates that if Buu did it on anyone of Vegito's level, same thing would've happened. Again, I can't imagine a scenario where Buu turns both DBZ Vegito and Beerus into candies and while Vegito mauls Buu, Beerus gets eaten.

i also 100% agree with this

 

[Golden_Void]

Don't quote such long messages ƒæÇ

 

[Golden_Void]

Also I'm pretty sure that we established comparing one verse to another isn't a valid argument.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes but that also cannot mean they can't be put in the same boat as DBS to show why it wouldn't work. It goes 50/50.

 

[Golden_Void]

Because they aren't DBS.