DBH and Conceptual Manipulation

[Remus1998]

I've seen externally arguments for DBH characters such as Demigra & Goku having concept manipulation due to interacting/harming Toki Toki whose existence is important for all dimensions. If so, Why don't characters in the verse have conceptual manipulation?

Also have other arguments been brought forward regarding CM in DBH and if so, why were they rejected?

 

[Bernkastelll]

I've seen externally arguments for DBH characters such as Demigra & Goku having concept manipulation due to interacting/harming Toki Toki whose existence is important for all dimensions. If so, Why don't characters in the verse have conceptual manipulation?

Toki Toki controls all space and time, but harming him doesnt means nothing

 

[Delta333]

There will be an upgrade for type 1 concept of DB

 

[Delta333]

I don't joke btw

 

[Everything12]

Yeah sure/s

 

[Orange]

Toki Toki controls all space and time, but harming him doesnt means nothing

Actually demigra harmed toki which caused some timeline ish mash were multiple people from different timelines got transported into one timeline. plus he is responsible for the existence of all dimensions.
take it as you will

 

[Bernkastelll]

Actually demigra harmed toki which caused some timeline ish mash were multiple people from different timelines got transported into one timeline. plus he is responsible for the existence of all dimensions.
take it as you will

I remember that, thats a chain reaction of affecting toki toki, thats why demigra absorbed him, to have the power of space and time, but it is not conceptual, not with these evidences

 

[Everything12]

Toki Toki is neither a Concept nor does it interact with Concepts. Dimensions, Space-Time, and Timelines are not Concepts or Conceptual.

 

[Orange]

Toki Toki is neither a Concept nor does it interact with Concepts. Dimensions, Space-Time, and Timelines are not Concepts or Conceptual.

In dbz? Sure. Are they actually concepts? Technically everything can be a concept

 

[Everything12]

Sure everything has a Concept (not getting into Nonexistent Physiology Type 2 and Transduality), but just manipulating Space-Time is not a Concept. Just as beings, phenomenon, and locations all having Concepts does not make then Concepts. Dragon Ball Z, Super, Xenoverse, and Heroes shows no proof they are manipulating the Concepts of Space-Time instead of just manipulating Space-Time.

 

[Orange]

I literally just said time isn't a concept in db
tho if it's stated to manipulate "the very concept of space and time" then yeah it would be conceptual manipulation

 

[Everything12]

You post wasn't very clear on what it was saying.

 

[Orange]

You post wasn't very clear on what it was saying.

Hahahahahahha
I just realized it and now I feel like a failure

 

[Everything12]

It's why one word sentence aren't a thing people use often, especially posts made solely of multiple of them.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Also interacting and harming conceptual beings is just non-physical interaction, you have to affect the concept they embody by harming them to have concept manip.

 

[ProudLearner]

This is what I found:

Conceptual Manipulation (Toki-Toki controls time to this degree. When all of time was sealed away with Mechikabura, Toki-Toki created a brand new flow of time for the multiverse)

Abstract Existence (Type 2; Toki-Toki's existence is important for all dimensions. Him being used in experiments caused a giant rift in time and time being affected directly affects Toki-Toki. Resurrects through his eggs which hold time meaning he can resurrect as long as time exists)

Toki Toki is the abstract embodiment of time itself, any damage done to Toki Toki would inflict damage to time itself.

 

[Everything12]

This has been denied in the past, theirs no proof that Toki-Toki controls the Conceot of Time and not just Time and the evidence used for its Resurrection and Immortality because of Time was highly questioned and ultimately rejected as Toki-Toki birthing a entirely new Toki-Toki and not reincarnation/resurrection.

 

[Remus1998]

This has been denied in the past, theirs no proof that Toki-Toki controls the Conceot of Time and not just Time and the evidence used for its Resurrection and Immortality because of Time was highly questioned and ultimately rejected as Toki-Toki birthing a entirely new Toki-Toki and not reincarnation/resurrection.

Which thread?

 

[Everything12]

Beats me, it was months ago. Too many Dragon Ball threads to search through to find it.

 

[Thelastmlg]

also you don't need NPI or conceptual manip to harm someone with AE type 2

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Toki-Toki created a brand new flow of time for the multiverse

Tell Ryu this is just Space-Time Manipulation on a multiversal scale.

Resurrects through his eggs which hold time meaning he can resurrect as long as time exists

See, that is not how this works. I can resurrect through my big, red bowls, and those bowls also happen to hold water within them. That does not mean that I can resurrect so long as water exists though. And even then, that is just a type of Immortality.

 

[sanicspood]

Tell Ryu this is just Space-Time Manipulation on a multiversal scale.

i like how ur assuming its ryu who wrote that text

 

[Remus1998]

Is Toki Toki ever even referred to as an embodiment of time?

Also, did time exist before Toki Toki's conception?

 

[sanicspood]

No

 

[Remus1998]

No

No for...?

 

[sanicspood]

Wdym for? It’s not stated that toki toki embodies time

 

[Everything12]

Statements of embodying something alone doesn't give anything anyway. You can embody something without being immaterial, gaining Immortality, or even the ability to manipulate the thing you embody.

 

[Remus1998]

Wdym for? It’s not stated that toki toki embodies time

I was asking if No was your answer to the first of second question.

Ok, the other question, did time exist before TokiToki's conception?

 

[Ningenron]

"DB" and "Conceptual Manipulation" aren't something i'd use on a same sentence tbh.

 

[Dominodalek]

I was asking if No was your answer to the first of second question.

Ok, the other question, did time exist before TokiToki's conception?

Yes, in fact multiple generations of Tokitoki have existed since the beginning of time.

 

[Remus1998]

Yes, in fact multiple generations of Tokitoki have existed since the beginning of time.

So time precedes Tokitoki?

 

[Dominodalek]

So time precedes Tokitoki?

Yes.