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Darkseid vs Android 21

and if that isn't the case what is the number we are trying to reach, if there isn't what's the point of keeping track?

And how do we determine who wins, because it would be virtually impossible to try to get everyone to see your point of view.
 
Zensum said:
@Akreious Those things are out of the machines scope, they have only weakened ki/energy levels of characters I dont think they can affect empowerment that comes from higher realms/sources. As for incap, hes shown immunity to stimulti that would have induced fear through waves. I'm sure knockout waves wouldn't bother him much either.
Click to expand...
"I don't think" is a good argument here. Drawing power from a higher dimension is good and all, but if you yourself are put asleep/knocked out then it's useless. That's the point of haxes, to bypass specific abilities to achieve an end. Also it didn't "just" weaken ki/energy levels, it straight up made Goku unable to move at all even after awakening his soul and had to have the power of a Soul Linking with him AND Bulma's work to get Goku to be able to even move his body again.

The waves are shown to seal souls away and reduce one's consciousness to sleep inside, and would only awaken due to another soul possessing them. Until there's evidence that his connection to a higher dimension is somehow equivalent to another soul posessing him, the waves will indeed work. Inducing fear through waves is not the same as downright sealing the soul away. It's not "just" knockout waves like your'e implying.
 
Why is everyone voting Darseid? It would be an inconclusive at best for him, since he can't survive the powernull.
 
^Debatable. Darksei has been shown being able to bounce back after being drained.

Android 21 has never been shown to comeback from being erased from existence.

Also for darkseid it isn't equipment.

Darkseid also has time manipulation and Matter manipulation.

That is why we don't vote for 21.
 
Darkseid has NEVER resisted total soul sealing. Just drawing power from a higher dimension doesn't cut it. Having your soul and mind being sealed away =/= Power drained.

Again, Darkseid has never shown to resist the waves.

Also, it doesn't matter since she invented it and is therefore apart of her normal arsenal unless specified otherwise.

Both of which would get tossed away in favour of Omega Beams, which in turn is a question if it'd even work first as Android 21 could just as likely lolwave Darkseid.


So basically; ignoring everything Android 21 has in favour of her.
 
SHE ONLY HAS WAVES. WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN IGNORING EVERYTHING 21 HAS IN FAVOR OF HER. ITS JUST ONE DAMN THING.

NO ONE TOLD ME HOW SHE COULD GET AROUND THE BEAMS.

NO ONE TOLD ME HOW SHE COULD GET AROUND TIME MANIPULATION

NO ONE TOLD ME HOW SHE COULD GET AROUND MATTER MANIPULATION

THERE IS NO "EVERYTHING" ITS WAVES, WAVES, WAVES"

THE WAVES BARELY HAS RANGE, ITS PLANETARY AT BEST

IF DARKSEID WANTED TO HE COULD LITERALLY TELEPORT TO A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE AND USE HIS OMEGA BEAMS/ OMEGA SANCTION.

I will stop commenting on this post until I see an argument that I feel is actually in favor of 21 and does not seem like DBZ fanboyism.
 
Akreious said:
"I don't think" is a good argument here. Drawing power from a higher dimension is good and all, but if you yourself are put asleep/knocked out then it's useless. That's the point of haxes, to bypass specific abilities to achieve an end. Also it didn't "just" weaken ki/energy levels, it straight up made Goku unable to move at all even after awakening his soul and had to have the power of a Soul Linking with him AND Bulma's work to get Goku to be able to even move his body again.

The waves are shown to seal souls away and reduce one's consciousness to sleep inside, and would only awaken due to another soul possessing them. Until there's evidence that his connection to a higher dimension is somehow equivalent to another soul posessing him, the waves will indeed work. Inducing fear through waves is not the same as downright sealing the soul away. It's not "just" knockout waves like your'e implying.
Click to expand...
Effecting The Source and Omega Realm was only addressing the power null/weaken arguments it's way out of the scope for the machines waves. "Inducing fear through waves is not the same as downright sealing the soul away. It's not "just" knockout waves like your'e implying." I think you missunderstood my argument regarding the waves. I was saying Darkseid is immune to that type of stimuli. He was unaffected by waves delivering fear inducement, he will be immune to waves that put asleep or knockout as well. And besides the waves didnt effect Beerus or Whis because they were gods lol.. and

Looking further your saying "The waves are shown to seal souls away and reduce one's consciousness to sleep inside, and would only awaken due to another soul possessing them." You seem to be lacking the knowledge on the character and the kind of power Darkseid has. Darkseid/Uxas we are debating, is not the real Darkseid, or more specifically not the true form of Darkseid. It's is just an extension of the real/true essence. When you talk about putting the soul of Darkseid into a deep conscious sleep. That's going to be legit impossible. Darkseids spirit is abstract multiversal/higher form of existence his physicals manifestation is what appears in the multiverse. Its literal existence dwarfs reality and exist outside the normal dc multiverse. The wave machine does not and will not effect a soul of that caliber.

Darkseid otherwise just 1 shots with the Omega Effect.
 
..... But Darkseid DOES NOT have a counter to waves; and it's basically her game plan from the getgo to weaken her opponents.

She's just as likely to open her attack as Darkseid does his Omega Beams

Darkseid opts for Omega Beams more often not at the start, which is when Android 21 usually presses waves when she detects her enemy is actually a threat to her

Darkseid, again opts for Omega Beams which has an equal chance of being used as Android 21 and won't have a chance to use matter. It's lolwaves versus lolomegabeams.

If everything IS the waves, then yes. You're ignoring everything.


The waves were only shown to be planetary in range because THE ENTIRE GAME TAKES PLACE ON EARTH. Ever think of that?

Teleporting to a different universe is out of character and something he definitely wouldn't do if he just sees a character pushing a button.

In short; you ARE ignoring everything Android 21 because the waves are her only really powerful hax here that's as equally dangerous to Darkseid as his Omega beams are to her. You're viewing all our arguments as DBZ Fanboyism through a glass and completely ignoring how the waves actually work in the game as well as in the canon OF said game. Until you can explain to me how Darkseid apparently resists her waves (That operates MUCH differently from all the resistance feats people has given me for darkseid), her waves are a very viable option.
 
@Celestial

1. Chill out. This is just a debate over fictional characters, nothing to get overworked about.

2.The waves are Multi-galactic to universal range.

I'm not voting nor do I plan to but just wanted to clear up stuff.
 
Celestial Judge said:
^Debatable. Darksei has been shown being able to bounce back after being drained.
Android 21 has never been shown to comeback from being erased from existence.

Also for darkseid it isn't equipment.

Darkseid also has time manipulation and Matter manipulation.

That is why we don't vote for 21.
Click to expand...
That draining works on 3-As, which are really far above baseline.

And matter manipulation wouldn't matter because it's a one shot battle.
 
@Bepo

You're completely ignoring context. That is also a textbook proof by example fallacy.

1. Firstly, this game takes place in the same multiverse as DBH and DBX where it is stated that being a god gives you special resistances.

2. Secondly, Beerus and Whis are literally infinitely more powerful than Thanos. General rule is that you have to have feats of nullifying something on that level.

For example, if a 9-B has no feats of power nullifying a 5-A, it would be a NLF to say he can.
 
If we don't have proof of Android 21 resisting is it on a 2-A level, we shouldn't assume so

This is literally the basic principles of occams razor.
 
So.... we're arguing soul sealing; no mention of Consciousness dampening/putting the mind to sleep thing. Or how Darkseid would be weakened to fodder levels to the point that 21 can 1-shot him? the 3-A Goku was shoved all the way down to 4-B IIRC; Yamcha level.
 
I'd like to note on his profile, there is NO mention of any connection from Darkseid's lesser form and True Form. No type 8 immortality (Exists as long as his true self exists) or anything. So if what you're saying is in fact true, get it onto the profile with evidence in order to avoid future mistakes as well. I myself only have like two comics with Darkseid on them so...
 
Akreious said:
I'd like to note on his profile, there is NO mention of any connection from Darkseid's lesser form and True Form. No type 8 immortality (Exists as long as his true self exists) or anything. So if what you're saying is in fact true, get it onto the profile with evidence in order to avoid future mistakes as well. I myself only have like two comics with Darkseid on them so...
Click to expand...
No mention? It's more logic and deduction. His lesser forms are avatars he uses to physically manifest in the multiverse via host (Uxas, Dan Turpin). His true self is his abstract soul/essence which is on the profile. Immortality type 8 wouldn't be exactly accurate because they are just extentions they can still be defeated.
 
The profile doesn't mention anything. Abstract Existence doesn't refer to anything. The term "True form" doesn't refer to anything. SCP-682 has an Avatar, but he can't use his True Form because it's been locked off by God.


What I'm saying is; none of it is clearly described or explained. For a profile that should clearly explain and archive one's abilities and achievements, we shouldn't have to take a bunch of spread out texts to piece together explanations ourselves. We should be able to look at the ability in question, and either have an explanation for it or have a clear-cut reasoning in brackets. Abstract Existence (Is the literal Concept of Death) for example.
 
WHERE THE **** IS THE "WOO!"

YOU NEVER LEAVE THAT OUT! THAT IS A SACRED CODE!
 
Bluetrekking said:
@Bepo
You're completely ignoring context. That is also a textbook proof by example fallacy.

1. Firstly, this game takes place in the same multiverse as DBH and DBX where it is stated that being a god gives you special resistances.

2. Secondly, Beerus and Whis are literally infinitely more powerful than Thanos. General rule is that you have to have feats of nullifying something on that level.

For example, if a 9-B has no feats of power nullifying a 5-A, it would be a NLF to say he can.
Click to expand...
Should make a thread giving Demigra and Chronoa resistance to power null and soul manipulation
 
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