Dark Tower: High 1-A Content Revision

[Firestorm808]

Here right now?

If you are able. There is no rush.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

If you are able. There is no rush.

Now I will explain them all in order. But I have to say that I will not add evidence because all the evidence is on page 1.

Modified Message
(I'm changing this message because I've completely changed this content revision. So the cosmology page should be read instead of what I wrote here before.)

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I see. Which of the requirements of High 1-A do you believe we need better proof of?

He says what he says but I’m not in the mindset that it makes a difference in getting a higher tier.

So here’s all the illogicalities on why High 1-A+ that the verse hadn't inquired but he claims it does:

You've shown what is needed for High 1-A+, but I’ll reemphasize what's needed for the specific tier:

The apex of this tier, represented also by a "+" modifier in their Attack Potency section (High Outerverse level+), corresponds to characters whose power encompasses meta-qualities, meta-meta-qualities, and any and all conceivable extensions of this process, being on which in which their power influences the space of all logically possible worlds ("Logical space," where the laws governing it are the three laws of thought), being characters who either have the ability to actualize arbitrarily large worlds, or embody the framework of such worlds itself.

That said, characters who embody the framework of all possible worlds properly speaking may be rightly considered more powerful than those that can simply create arbitrarily big possible worlds while nevertheless existing in one.

As such the tiers rely less on hierarchy, but encompassing it and working through logistic possibilities.

So here are the points of the OP which I see as a bit concerning.

The Dark Tower, Roland compares the trillions of grains of sand in the Mohaine Desert to universes and explains that there are infinite universes encapsulated within these trillions of universes.

This portion is purely quantitative and I rather think that either 2-A or Low 1-C suffice here. The craziness in how it sounds doesn't deter it from getting higher ratings.

These universes become more apparent in the novel Insomnia and it is confirmed that each of them is an inaccessible structure. Again in the same book, Ralph, who ascends through a channel opening to some of these universes, says that the levels below are like a mirage. (universes are named according to level) This is a consistent hierarchy because the fact that the universes appear like mirages clearly proves that they are not real compared to the higher levels, while in the same book, the fact that these universes are inaccessible would cause this hierarchy to be 1-A+.

I don't see much of a stronger case here either. The “mirage” information is albeit all but weak, given how the floweriness surrounding it can be more metaphorical than literal.

I've already discussed with the OP that inaccessible literally holds little to no meaning. To which replies that isn't the only context, yet I still fail to see comparing the “levels” as inaccessible and adding that it felt like life was mirages as indefinite proof of R>F.

At the same time, this hierarchy is also addressed in different novels such as Talisman and the qualitative superiority between them is emphasized once again with Decrees such as " There is enough transcendence here to drive a Tibetan living in a cave mad ". On the other hand, in the book Fair Tale, it confirms R>F that the stories are poured into universes. Again, in the book Talisman, a child named Jack Sawyer feels that the moment he takes possession of the Talisman, it covers the axis of all the existing Possible Worlds and that he experiences all the possible incarnations of himself at the same time. In the same book, it is said that these possible worlds can cause interconnected events. Just like an action taken by Morgan Sloat in Jack's world can lead to the same result as separate planes in other worlds. If Sloat dies in one world, he will die for a different reason in the other, because they are all interconnected worlds. These worlds are called " Coherent Worlds " of the network of regularity produced by The Dark Tower. In the novel 22/11/63, the word "Wave" means universe. (probably a word from the sea of premiums) Every action we take creates a new wave/universe, many things like the heartbeat of each child create a different wave/universe. Possible Worlds are discussed repeatedly in Talisman and many of Stephen King's novels.

Again, this has no relevance to 1-A. To be precise, it’s baseless and it's covered with the structure and confine of 2-A as “creating new universes” and repeatedly is already defined within 2-A.

The thing about an endless number of stories pouring into our universe inclines me to believe that it has “less” to do with qualitative superiority and more to do with poetic language. Either way, it doesn't further amply anything for 1-A.

I've said previously that the Tibetan transcendence part is the strongest case, but the problem is even within the scripts and structure of questioning the nature of reality, they sometimes only go through the process that one can leave everything in spiritual enlightenment, but that hardly covers whats need for 1-A; a grounded establishment baseline reality being transcended through means of conceptual transcendence or R>F. Usually, with these spiritual awakenings, most time do not refer to ontological states of existence, just pure bliss and serenity.

You could still argue for 1-A based on the weak evidence surrounding “mirages” and “transcendence” and whatnot, but the next portion that includes High 1-A+ is completely wrong:

The Dark Tower holds the entire multiverse together that I mentioned. It powers the six Beam members inside the Tower and establishes a meta-qualitative superiority over the entire multiverse. While it is defined as a structure outside of time/reality at the center of Middle Earth, it is a timeless structure that provides the time flow of the multiverse. It is the source that distributes all its laws to the universe and is the source of things like time, space, dimension, and dimensions, but it is completely independent of them, which is a pretty good definition for the term Meta.

This has nothing to due with being High 1-A in correlations of the universes. I think this is a better example of where the R>F hierarchy starts since the simplistic notion of the Dark Tower is the conjoined points of all time, space, and dimensions. That it exists outside said concepts while empowering the universes below it.

I don't know where the “meta” parts come in, but I suppose that's from the previous scaling, which was anything but to scoff at.

When Roland talks about the Tower, he says that it holds all existence together, that it is the key point of time and dimensions. Basically, everything that exists in the universe - I am talking about a certain segment - is surrounded by the Tower. In other words, if the Tower is destroyed, everything that depends on it will either be destroyed or collapse in on itself upon the disruption of the balance of existence. Therefore, the Tower is the fulcrum of the entire universe and completely encompasses everything that lies beneath it. Roland said here, " The dimension encompasses life and encompasses the dimension in the Tower. " He expresses this when he says this in a sentence. Also, in the comic book Sheemie's Tale #2, it is declared that the Tower, which seems finite from the outside, actually rises infinitely. In the book The Musketeer, Walter says that there is a staircase in the Tower that leads to divinity. This description of the staircase is suggested by Walter in the last quarter of the first novel. Again, in the last quarter of the first book, when Walter is talking about the Tower, he asks, "Could there be a room above everything in the eternal reality?" and addresses Roland. The important part here is that Walter is talking about the Tower containing the eternal reality. These realities are the universes governed by the "Consistent Possible Worlds" that I mentioned earlier. The Tower forms a nexus point for all the chains of possibility here. Finally, the term "A place above everything" that Walter uses means that the room in question is somewhere beyond the infinite staircase. Basically, since this room is located inside the Tower, it also makes it on a level equivalent to the Tower itself. Therefore, the Tower will enter the same level as the room.

Again, the final statement would be more so another layer into 1-A+ rather than a jump that's completely separate from the Tower, which is yet contained in said Tower.

However, as I stated earlier with the explanation of High 1-A+, the Tower isn't treated as the cosmological apexes as it’s surpassed by other structures such as Todash Darkness, which is all possible spaces since there are no furthers than that.

So the use of possible worlds to gather High 1-A+(type 1) is rather fallacious and weak altogether. The rest I don't need to cover, but the only thing I agree with is the Todash Darkness being High 1-A+(Type 2).

The short form is already listed for structures that as supposedly High 1-A+:

Naming-dropping possible worlds holds no merit in tiering when it's not the cosmological apexes. I don't have a problem with the Todash Darkness being the second variant since it more or less fills the niche. However, if you describe the Sea of Prim as a drop-in the infinity that is the totality of darkness beyond it then the Tower rising from that Sea that does not scale to the Todash Darkness. It’s not on the same plane as the Todash Darkness if it’s consider as non-existence to it in size.

• Is the Sea of Prim some sort of actualized form of the Todash Darkness or is it completely separate? From what I’ve seen it’s different and completely overshadowed by it in size trivializing it as a small drop in the ocean that it is.
• Are the possible worlds functioning on pure logistic possibilities? From what I’ve seen they don’t, at least not how they’re contained within Dark Tower and superseded by things outside of it.
• Is the Dark Tower all encompassing where the physical body that is represented by Gan just an emanation of some sort from a truer being? Based on what I’ve read of this OP, I can’t be sure, but based on reasoning it doesn’t seem to be the case.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

This portion is purely quantitative and I rather think that either 2-A or Low 1-C suffice here. The craziness in how it sounds doesn't deter it from getting higher ratings.

Yes, here we go again...
Okay, let's give 2A from here, but I'll consider it as QUANTITY for now.

I don't see much of a stronger case here either. The “mirage” information is albeit all but weak, given how the floweriness surrounding it can be more metaphorical than literal.

Have you ever wondered why I keep repeating the term inaccessible? Because, as I've said many times, these are things that are in the same book. This mirage analogy is indeed poor context on its own, but the fact that they are mentioned as inaccessible in the same story proves that the upper levels do indeed view the levels below as mirages. Oh, and before I forget, in the same story, Ralph observes one of the lower levels with binoculars. In this case, interestingly, he explains that what he saw did not resemble a human being or any other realistic living creature, but looked as if it had been drawn with a felt-tip pen. In short, what I mean is that these are creatures that truly appear as a mirage/dream/Fiction rather than a poetic expression.

I've already discussed with the OP that inaccessible literally holds little to no meaning.

Yes, inaccessibility alone does not really work. But using this against the layers that are likened to a mirage increases the consistency of the Hierarchy.

Again, the final statement would be more so another layer into 1-A+ rather than a jump that's completely separate from the Tower, which is yet contained in said Tower.

So wrong
In previous posts you said that the multiverse was the first level of the Tower or something like that.That's probably why you don't accept it: "A 1A+ hierarchy and an H1A structure cannot be intertwined." This is quite wrong. Multiverse ≠ Layer 1 of the Tower. The multiverse and the Tower are separate locations. The only connection is this: The tower aligns the multiverse like a cable. But this hierarchy is independent of the levels of the Tower.

which is yet contained in said Tower.

The 1A+ hierarchy is not inside the Tower.

However, as I stated earlier with the explanation of High 1-A+, the Tower isn't treated as the cosmological apexes as it’s surpassed by other structures such as Todash Darkness, which is all possible spaces since there are no furthers than that.

Is the tower surpassed by todash darkness? You'll have to prove it because by my definition Todash is just a separate place beyond the Tower that makes the Tower/Prim smaller than a blob. In this case, as we discussed with you before, the Tower should cover some of the possible worlds, making it a Type 1, while Todash should be a Type 2 since it covers all of them. Apart from that, you need to prove that Todash ontologically transcends the Tower or Prim.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

All points are covered. Your misunderstanding of what I said is frustrating, but as I said this is for the mods to decide now. Please, read what I said carefully.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

All points are covered. Your misunderstanding of what I said is frustrating, but as I said this is for the mods to decide now. Please, read what I said carefully.

So for now we have no choice but to wait.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

@Antvasima
Well I need some help here. Could you tag a few people to see this post? Because even if I don't know why, this is the third CRT to ascend Dark Tower and almost none of the admins wrote anything for all three. We look forward to supporting you soon, goodbye.

 

[Radman69]

@Antvasima
Well I need some help here. Could you tag a few people to see this post? Because even if I don't know why, this is the third CRT to ascend Dark Tower and almost none of the admins wrote anything for all three. We look forward to supporting you soon, goodbye.

Yeah this is frustrating, I don't want this CRT to be left in the dust like others

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

@Antvasima
Well I need some help here. Pls

 

[Radman69]

I will keep bumping this thread until Ultima or another mod take a look at it

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

Unsure but I am neutral

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

I will keep bumping this thread until Ultima or another mod take a look at it

 

[Antvasima]

He says what he says but I’m not in the mindset that it makes a difference in getting a higher tier.

So here’s all the illogicalities on why High 1-A+ that the verse hadn't inquired but he claims it does:

You've shown what is needed for High 1-A+, but I’ll reemphasize what's needed for the specific tier:

As such the tiers rely less on hierarchy, but encompassing it and working through logistic possibilities.

So here are the points of the OP which I see as a bit concerning.

This portion is purely quantitative and I rather think that either 2-A or Low 1-C suffice here. The craziness in how it sounds doesn't deter it from getting higher ratings.

I don't see much of a stronger case here either. The “mirage” information is albeit all but weak, given how the floweriness surrounding it can be more metaphorical than literal.

I've already discussed with the OP that inaccessible literally holds little to no meaning. To which replies that isn't the only context, yet I still fail to see comparing the “levels” as inaccessible and adding that it felt like life was mirages as indefinite proof of R>F.

Again, this has no relevance to 1-A. To be precise, it’s baseless and it's covered with the structure and confine of 2-A as “creating new universes” and repeatedly is already defined within 2-A.

The thing about an endless number of stories pouring into our universe inclines me to believe that it has “less” to do with qualitative superiority and more to do with poetic language. Either way, it doesn't further amply anything for 1-A.

I've said previously that the Tibetan transcendence part is the strongest case, but the problem is even within the scripts and structure of questioning the nature of reality, they sometimes only go through the process that one can leave everything in spiritual enlightenment, but that hardly covers whats need for 1-A; a grounded establishment baseline reality being transcended through means of conceptual transcendence or R>F. Usually, with these spiritual awakenings, most time do not refer to ontological states of existence, just pure bliss and serenity.

You could still argue for 1-A based on the weak evidence surrounding “mirages” and “transcendence” and whatnot, but the next portion that includes High 1-A+ is completely wrong:


This has nothing to due with being High 1-A in correlations of the universes. I think this is a better example of where the R>F hierarchy starts since the simplistic notion of the Dark Tower is the conjoined points of all time, space, and dimensions. That it exists outside said concepts while empowering the universes below it.

I don't know where the “meta” parts come in, but I suppose that's from the previous scaling, which was anything but to scoff at.

Again, the final statement would be more so another layer into 1-A+ rather than a jump that's completely separate from the Tower, which is yet contained in said Tower.

However, as I stated earlier with the explanation of High 1-A+, the Tower isn't treated as the cosmological apexes as it’s surpassed by other structures such as Todash Darkness, which is all possible spaces since there are no furthers than that.

So the use of possible worlds to gather High 1-A+(type 1) is rather fallacious and weak altogether. The rest I don't need to cover, but the only thing I agree with is the Todash Darkness being High 1-A+(Type 2).

The short form is already listed for structures that as supposedly High 1-A+:

Goofy seems to make sense to me here, but I am not the best person to ask.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ultima_Reality

Your help is still needed here.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Goofy seems to make sense to me here, but I am not the best person to ask.

Frankly, I think I responded to most of what he wrote. And I'm tired of repeating myself on many issues. All the arguments are that he is using the terms I mentioned figuratively or poetically rather than in their literal sense. And on the first page, he accepted that the Tower was H1A+ type 1 and the macroverse was Type 2. But now it seems like he has changed his mind. His biggest argument is that the macroverse transcends the Tower, but he hasn't provided any evidence for "transcendence", even though I dispute that.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Frankly, I think I responded to most of what he wrote. And I'm tired of repeating myself on many issues. All the arguments are that he is using the terms I mentioned figuratively or poetically rather than in their literal sense. And on the first page, he accepted that the Tower was H1A+ type 1 and the macroverse was Type 2. But now it seems like he has changed his mind. His biggest argument is that the macroverse transcends the Tower, but he hasn't provided any evidence for "transcendence", even though I dispute that.

I’ll explain this horrible misunderstanding. The first time I never agreed to High 1-A+ for the Tower, I said it may be High 1-A, but I don't see where the “+” modifier comes from:

You would say the Tower itself would consider the Multiverse as the first level of existence or is it disconnected entirely and starts with a different one? If its the latter then High 1-A is fine but I don't see where the “+” modifier is coming from.

As you can see above I didn't agree with the proposal of Type 1.

As for the Macroverse transcending the Tower which I've read the OP and I figured that the Tower is a smallness in its infinity which makes sense for High 1-A+(Type 2). If he claims it's not transcendent and I'm leaning towards a 1-A+ Tower then obviously it also is just higher into 1-A+, with a possible High 1-A rating.

I also don't think this person knows that I was giving the benefit of the doubt for a possible High 1-A+(Type 2) place but if its only outside and not transcendent at all as he claims then it's just at best High 1-A for me or just more into 1-A+.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

I’ll explain this horrible misunderstanding. The first time I never agreed to High 1-A+ for the Tower, I said it may be High 1-A, but I don't see where the “+” modifier comes from:

I remember we talked about this before; the Tower had to be a Type 1 and the macroverse had to be a Type 2, since the Tower covered a fraction of all possible worlds and the macroverse covered all of them.

As you can see above I didn't agree with the proposal of Type 1.

“Because it covers some of the possible worlds that are possible.”

If he claims it's not transcendent and I'm leaning towards a 1-A+ Tower then obviously it also is just higher into 1-A+, with a possible High 1-A rating.

Like I said, you may not agree with this.
The tower is independent of the laws of space and time and is beyond them. The plane where the tower is located (END WORLD or MİD WORLD) is independent of the laws of space and time.

The Dark Tower exists at the heart of End-World. —End-World Almanac

[End-World] exists in a pocket where the normal rules of time and space have no hold. —Dark Tower: The Long Road Home

Although it appears finite, the Tower is, in actuality, infinite. It is the nexus of all worlds and all realities, and the voices of the dead and damned murmur in its stairwells. —Sheemie's Tale

As can be seen, the tower is governed by an algorithm that is independent of the flow of the multiverse.

Climbing up it was like entering a conch shell. Each of its narrow twisting stairways led to a different level of creation - a distant time period, an alternative reality, even a completely unimagined and unimaginable version of now. —The Gunslinger Born

When I think about the differences between the novels and the comics - and there are many of them - I always keep in mind Jake Chamber's famous phrase, "there are other worlds than these." The Dark Tower contains many levels, and within those levels are parallel worlds which mirror each other, but which are not exactly alike.

I always view the Dark Tower comics in one of these parallel worlds. If the Dark Tower novels exist in Tower Keystone, then the Dark Tower comics exist in a spinoff world, one which is very similar to, but not exactly the same as the one where The Gunslinger, The Drawing of the Three, The Waste Lands, Wizard and Glass, and the rest of the Dark Tower novels take place. —The Gunslinger Born

Novels/Comics is the multiverse that I previously gave a 1A+ to. The “Keystone” mentioned in this text is the Tower and the Rose itself. As you can see, Dark Tower contains all the novels/comics. These novels/comics are works of fiction written for the Tower. (This is directly said by Stephen King, who also quotes the same thing —A fictional Stephen King within the novels)

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I remember we talked about this before; the Tower had to be a Type 1 and the macroverse had to be a Type 2, since the Tower covered a fraction of all possible worlds and the macroverse covered all of them.

“Had” is a strong word without any basis here. It does not have to be High 1-A+ with the description you gave and those in the OP.

“Because it covers some of the possible worlds that are possible.”

Like I said, you may not agree with this.
The tower is independent of the laws of space and time and is beyond them. The plane where the tower is located (END WORLD or MİD WORLD) is independent of the laws of space and time.

That's 1-A, I don't see anything special in this regard.

As can be seen, the tower is governed by an algorithm that is independent of the flow of the multiverse.

Again that's not High 1-A or High 1-A+.

Novels/Comics is the multiverse that I previously gave a 1A+ to. The “Keystone” mentioned in this text is the Tower and the Rose itself. As you can see, Dark Tower contains all the novels/comics. These novels/comics are works of fiction written for the Tower. (This is directly said by Stephen King, who also quotes the same thing —A fictional Stephen King within the novels)

What you sent me should be overlooked carefully since it does support my notion quite a bit for 1-A+.

Climbing up it was like entering a conch shell. Each of its narrow twisting stairways led to a different level of creation - a distant time period, an alternative reality, even a completely unimagined and unimaginable version of now. —The Gunslinger Born

This to me sounds like its talking about the Tower and that each level has its own parallel universes and realities that's on different levels of Creation. You claim that the Multiverse is separate of the tower and said all alternate versions of worlds and universes are separate yet this doesn't seem to be the case. So how do you explain this?

It fits the bill of 1-A since there's a baseline level of existence and then the levels that go up that's transcendent of the level below. So if I'm reading that right another “world” isn't the same as below but it occupies itself in a hierarchy system within the Tower which is again supported by the tier: 1-A+.

When I think about the differences between the novels and the comics - and there are many of them - I always keep in mind Jake Chamber's famous phrase, "there are other worlds than these." The Dark Tower contains many levels, and within those levels are parallel worlds which mirror each other, but which are not exactly alike.

I always view the Dark Tower comics in one of these parallel worlds. If the Dark Tower novels exist in Tower Keystone, then the Dark Tower comics exist in a spinoff world, one which is very similar to, but not exactly the same as the one where The Gunslinger, The Drawing of the Three, The Waste Lands, Wizard and Glass, and the rest of the Dark Tower novels take place. —The Gunslinger Born

What here is High 1-A? It seems to be taken all in the same place, the Tower.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

So how do you explain this?

In the previous explanations I meant that the “physical universe” or “hierarchy” are things independent of the Tower. But the situation here is different. These are reflections or doors. Each one contains doors that open to a different world. What I mean to say in short is that while the physical universe is independent of the Tower, the “alternative possibilities” exist within the Tower. Portals in the tower teleport beings to other alternative possibilities.

That's 1-A, I don't see anything special in this regard.

If it were alone, yes it would be 1A, but when the multiverse is taken into account, we already have a 1A+ structure. In this case, Dark Tower is beyond the algorithm of the multiverse, which is 1A+. And since he sees them as works of fiction, they should be High 1-A. And it is already stated in the first novel that it is a structure beyond all levels of reality. The High 1-A+ situation can be explained as follows: Dark Tower should be a High 1-A+ type 1 since it includes all possible worlds/novels regardless of comics. Because the peak is the second structure.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

So if I'm reading that right another “world” isn't the same as below but it occupies itself in a hierarchy system within the Tower which is again supported by the tier: 1-A+.

No, this hierarchy does not exist within the Tower. It is located in an independent location outside the Tower. Here is a cosmological visual. The things around him are multiverse stories, and the Tower is on a separate plane in the middle of creation.

Dark Tower

The reason I'm showing you this image is because the hierarchy is rumored to be located inside the Tower. And that's not true.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

In the previous explanations I meant that the “physical universe” or “hierarchy” are things independent of the Tower. But the situation here is different. These are reflections or doors. Each one contains doors that open to a different world. What I mean to say in short is that while the physical universe is independent of the Tower, the “alternative possibilities” exist within the Tower. Portals in the tower teleport beings to other alternative possibilities.

That's literally just saying that the alternative possibilities are just different versions of the universes which is common across all fictional verses.

If it were alone, yes it would be 1A, but when the multiverse is taken into account, we already have a 1A+ structure. In this case, Dark Tower is beyond the algorithm of the multiverse, which is 1A+. And since he sees them as works of fiction, they should be High 1-A. And it is already stated in the first novel that it is a structure beyond all levels of reality. The High 1-A+ situation can be explained as follows: Dark Tower should be a High 1-A+ type 1 since it includes all possible worlds/novels regardless of comics. Because the peak is the second structure.

The Multiverse isn't 1-A as you've shown earlier to agree with the my statement that most of the things in the OP are quantitative. You can argue about your “mirages” thing which is hardly at all anything special, but you denying these worlds don't exist within the Tower seems to go against what was said. If the doors lead to these worlds then they're still connected through the levels of the Tower, I don't know why your trying to make a distinction based on location and not their nature.

As for your point on High 1-A+(Type 1), it doesn't fit the bill just because it name-drops possible worlds. All possible worlds would be Type 2 and that only can apply to one character or place. Based on what you said about the Marcoverse then either it gets Type 2 alone without the rest being 1-A+ since you can still have the same hierarchy of transcendence that isn't just High 1-A which needs context of being functionally different and higher because it operates outside the R>F hierarchy which all you said literally still are within that same framework.

Since I clarified my positioning already, I’ll leave it here but I don't agree with the ratings.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

That's literally just saying that the alternative possibilities are just different versions of the universes which is common across all fictional verses.

Not really, but even if it did, I don't see any problem. Or even if there is a problem, I don't quite understand what you mean.

The Multiverse isn't 1-A as you've shown earlier to agree with the my statement that most of the things in the OP are quantitative. You can argue about your “mirages” thing which is hardly at all anything special, but you denying these worlds don't exist within the Tower seems to go against what was said. If the doors lead to these worlds then they're still connected through the levels of the Tower, I don't know why your trying to make a distinction based on location and not their nature.

Frequent arguments made only to make me repetitive.

The Multiverse isn't 1-A as you've shown earlier to agree with the my statement that most of the things in the OP are quantitative.

These structures are not quantitative, and each is beyond the grasp of the previous one. These are not quantitative constructs. If you have a different opinion, feel free to provide evidence.

There are endless worlds, your dinh is correct about that, but even when those worlds are close together - like some of the multiple New Yorks - there are endless spaces between. —DARK TOWER VI: SONG OF SUSANNAH

In one sense he was not in the Agincourt at all, not in Point Venuti, not in Mendocino County, not in California, not in the American Territories, not in those other Territories; but he was in them, and in an infinite number of other worlds as well, and all at the same time. —Talisman

Worlds also mean universe and as you can see they are endless. (2-A)

For a moment nothing happened, and then the doors of the Portosans at the foot of the hill opened in perfect unison. Clotho stepped from the one marked MEN, Lachesis from the one marked WOMEN. Their auras, the brilliant green-gold of summer dragonflies, glimmered in the ashy light of day's end. They moved together until their auras overlapped, then walked slowly toward the top of the hill that way, with their white-clad shoulders almost touching.They looked like a pair of frightened children. Ralph turned to Lois. His aura still blazed and burned. —Insomnia

The street is a carnival of energy, Ralph thought. The juice thrown off by those two boys during the ninety seconds they were mixing it up looked like enough to light Derry for a week, and if a person could tap the energy the watchers generated the energy inside that mushroom cloud you could probably light the whole state of Maine for a month. Can you imagine what it would be like to enter the world of auras in Times Square at two minutes to midnight on New Year's Eve?

He couldn't and didn't want to. He suspected he had glimpsed the leading edge of a force so huge and so vital that it made all the nuclear weapons created since 1945 seem about as powerful as a child's cap-pistol fired into an empty peach can. Enough force to destroy the universe, perhaps... or to create a new one. —Insomnia

Above these planes, inaccessible to us but connected to the tower of existence, live other beings. Some are wondrous and wonderful; others, not to mention yours, are hideous beyond our ability to comprehend. —Insomnia

As you can see, the existence of levels that are inaccessible to beings with the power to destroy or create the universe is confirmed here. In this case this means ontological inaccessibility.

Lois: ["How did you get us up to this level in the first place? It was the insomnia, wasn't it?"]

Lachesis, cautiously: [Essentially, yes. We're able to make certain small changes in Short-Time auras. These adjustments caused a rather special form of insomnia that altered the way you dream and the way you perceive the waking world. Adjusting Short-Term auras is delicate, frightening work. Madness is always a danger.] —Insomnia

Here Ralph is elevated to a higher level by beings of transdimensional and universal power.

But wasn’t it at least possible that the phenomenon was real? That his persistent insomnia, coupled with the stabilizing influence of his lucid, coherent dreams, had afforded him a glimpse of a fabulous dimension just beyond the reach of ordinary perception? —Insomnia

This level provides Ralph with extradimensional perception.

And, crazy as it seemed, part of him regretted it. Now it was real life-life as it went on on the floors below this level-that seemed almost like a mirage and he understood what Lachesis had meant when he told them that they would never be able to return to their normal lives if they stayed up here much longer. —Insomnia

And Ralph says that thanks to the extradimensional perception he has gained, all the levels below his current level appear like a mirage. The literal meaning of the word mirage is a dream or illusion appearing in the desert. As a result, the MIRAGE analogy meant here is not a poetic or ornate expression or a metaphorical meaning. This is a true mirage analogy and confirms that R>F exists between worlds. 1-A and 1-A+ To be honest, it's up to you whether you accept it or not. But I will do my best to eliminate all question marks.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Bump

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Bump

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Bump

 

[Radman69]

Besides IT, did The Other show up in any other books?

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Besides IT, did The Other show up in any other books?

No. But I previously thought that Other was not the same entity as Gan. I disagree now.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

@Antvasima
Can you help me?

 

[Radman69]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Agnaa @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @GrathOfLux @Dereck03 @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist

Your help would be appreciated here.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I may if I have a simplified summary.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

I may if I have a simplified summary.

Of course.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Bump

 

[Radman69]

BUmp

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Bump

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

@Antvasima Can you help me?

 

[Radman69]

To keep the thread engaged, I want to ask some questions. I've been curious about this for a while. In Insomnia, Clotho mentioned about Long-Time levels and Short-Time levels
Clotho: [Be content with this: beyond the Short-Time levels of existence and the Long-Time levels on which Lachesis, Atropos, and I exist, there are yet other levels. These are inhabited by creatures we could call All-Timers, beings which are either eternal or so close to it as to make no difference.

Short-Timers and Long-Timers live in overlapping spheres of existence-on connected floors of the same building, if you like-ruled by the Random and the Purpose. Above these floors, inaccessible to us but very much a part of the same tower Of existence, live other beings.

Some of them are marvelous and wonderful,-others are hideous beyond our ability to comprehend, let alone yours. These beings might be called the Higher Purpose and the Higher Random... or perhaps there is no Random beyond a certain level,we suspect that may be the case, but we have no real way of telling.

We do know that it is something from one of these higher levels that has interested itself in Ed, and that something else from up there made a countermove. That countermove is you, Ralph and Lois.] - Insomnia

Short-timers are beings like humans, Long-Timers are Random and Purpose like Clotho, Lachesis, Atropos
Obviously, these levels are concepts different from floors in size mentioned by Randall Flagg in Gunslinger:
"Imagine the sand of the Mohaine Desert, which you crossed to find me, and imagine a trillion universes - not worlds by universes - encapsulated in each grain of that desert; and within each universe an infinity of others. We tower over these universes from our pitiful grass vantage point; with one swing of your boot you may knock a billion billion worlds flying off into darkness, a chain never to be completed."

Later in Insomnia, Ralph "stepping down" from a long-time level. He simply shifting one plane to another, while remaining within the same universe

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/f/f6/Ralph_steps_down_from_Clotho_%26_Lachesis%27_plane.png/revision/latest?cb=20180405094404

So this means that every floor in size (mentioned by Randall), and every physical universe in the dark tower have higher realities (long-time levels) within them, right?

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

So this means that every floor in size (mentioned by Randall), and every physical universe in the dark tower have higher realities (long-time levels) within them, right?

Probably yes.This also means there are trillions of 1A+ hierarchies in Dark Tower. Because inside trillions of capsules there are an infinite number of universes with their own space and time. And these universes are the 1A+ hierarchy that I have been talking about since the beginning of the revision, but even though there are trillions of them, it can be said that there is no difference between them in the tier system.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Bump

 

[Radman69]

Bump