Dark Samus mid-godly

[JJSliderman]

“Likely Mid-Godly. Even as near end-game Dark Samus, she was shown to be potentially able to survive complete essence destruction, and given that her Regeneration scales to the amount of Phazon she has, she has likely reached the ability to completely regenerate from it”

Could I maybe receive a bit of clarification regarding this, I don’t exactly remember the specific evidence saying that DS could come back from essence destruction.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@SomebodyData is probably the one who knows the details best.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well the ending of echoes has the added confirmation from the scan of Dark Samus during her last fight with Samus in that game:

"Dark Samus has temporarily become a being of pure yet unstable Phazon energy. She can generate a shield that is invulnerable to all attacks, save one -- blasts of Phazon energy itself. Use your Charge Beam to collect Phazon energy that she expels, then fire it back at her. Direct hits will overload and disrupt her essence."

And the temporary scan of Metroid Prime states something similar about fighting her essence:

"Morphology: Metroid Prime
The core essence of Metroid Prime."

 

[JJSliderman]

Ah, I see.
It’s arguing that Dark Samus’s essence was destroyed by the Phazon attacks and her regenerating is a result of gaining new essence.

 

[Imaginym]

Bumping for interest.

 

[JJSliderman]

I got an answer, apparently it’s because Dark Samus came back after being blasted by essence destroying Phazon attacks and essence includes aspects like mind and soul.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So is this concluded?

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah, thanks

 

[Eficiente]

Why is the soul objectively being treated as part of the essence?

 

[JJSliderman]

I guess because Phazon has destroyed Chozo ghosts before

 

[Eficiente]

If I turn my body into [random substance], and it has NPI then that doesn't inherently mean my soul was turned into it too, anything can have NPI. And what would stop me from referring to my body in that state as "essence", without including my soul? Essence is a pretty vague word.

 

[Theglassman12]

Chozo ghosts are literal souls, they’re part of the essence that Phazon can affect, it’s not much of a stretch to say essence includes the soul here.

 

[Eficiente]

Yeah but that's not really connected by any solid logic that would make one conclude that. Many characters can harm souls, that doesn't mean that the weird energy beings they fight are more likely to also be souls. If one's made of literally anything, not even something with elemental intangibility, and all of their body is made of that, brain included, it wouldn't be wrong to call their body their essence. Imagine being made of pretty much water, plasma, or slime, that your body is callled your essence, and you get destroyed by someone can harm souls, does this objectively mean your soul was mixed in with the rest of you and thus got destroyed too? No, that's nonsensical as one thing doesn't connect with the other.

I believe Dark Samus should at least have "Low-Godly, likely Mid-Godly" regen, as it's not that I say that Mid-Godly can't be correct based on what we have, but that it's as vague as the word essence.

 

[Theglassman12]

What’s vague about Phazon being able to connect to the soul? That’s not vague whatsoever when literal souls exists as Phazon infected beings. If her entire essence was gone, meaning all of the phazon that’s a part of her being, her soul would be gone as well as her body. The latter being flat out shown with her body disappearing into nothingness. And the former from Phazon lore on the infected beings.

 

[Eficiente]

I didn't deny Phazon being able to connect to the soul. By that logic any character who can connect to the soul/harm souls would always be destroying the body and soul of enemies when they make them disappear, which is not the case, it needs to be proven that they destroyed the soul too, regardless of how if they weren't the soul should have just been visible after the body was destroyed. I don't see how Dark Samus has it any different, it's not like "essence" simply means

If her [body, mind & soul] was gone, meaning all of the phazon that’s a part of her being, her soul would be gone as well as her body.

Which would make perfect sense for Mid-Godly to be the case, but essence just makes the sentence mean this

If [Dark Samus] was gone, meaning all of the phazon that’s a part of her being, her soul would be gone as well as her body.

Which doesn't make sense on its own and I more so have to trust that what you're saying is correct in order to be it. If I'm being understood this far then we would at least agree that the wording used for her Mid-Godly needs to be touched on.

---

If in a verse magic is physical and can be physically attacked but then later souls can be messed up with magic and they need to be destroyed, and if the final boss turns his body into pure magic, then destroying it into visually nothing wouldn't mean the soul was destroyed too, because yes while magic could go non-physical, it doesn't mean it always is or is so in this case. Replace "magic" with any other word and it would be the same.

And why do we assume it disappears "into nothingness"? That would be something that would need to be stated rather than we interpreting so, likewise we don't give Low-Godly to anyone who just blows up into nothing visible, but a lower regen. When Dark Samus was destroyed we still see blue parts of her body raining around and we know she has come back from cells before, it would kinda make sense that she once more came back from super tiny bits of her body.

Furthermore, in the final fight her body is referred to as "bioessence", so why would her referred essence not be something biological/physical based on this?

 

[Theglassman12]

Ok, and Samus has shown to do that numerous times against numerous souls and spirits by being able to destroy them. On top of the fact that Dark Samus' body vanishes when Samus beats her in every single fight, and add the phazon ability to control or flat out destroy souls this comparison is moot.

If the soul wasn't destroyed then Dark Samus would only exist as a literal spirit like the Chozo ghosts and would still keep on fighting Samus at the end of MP2 because of the nature of Phazon.

Cellular regneration is from an inferior version of Metroid Prime so that's not even a point to bring up, secondly it's flat out stated her atoms were destroyed in the scan logs of Dark Samus, so it would easily check off Low godly unlike the "lower ratings" you claim to be.

Oh idk, the fact that her entire body vanished into Dark Aether where the entire dimension is deleted from existence because Samus took the last remaining thing that kept the dimension from fading into nothing? We literally see her particles fly away into the atmosphere of a dimension that's ceasing to exist and the post credits scene shows her regenerating from that level of destruction.

Idk where you got the information that it's stated to be a bioessence when even Metroid Prime 2 just says it's her "essence", not bioessence, and again this wound was far more severe cause she not only lost all of her atoms like she did for the 3rd time but the dimension ceased to exist, meaning she came back from nothing, which would qualify for mid godly regeneration.

 

[Eficiente]

Ok, and Samus has shown to do that numerous times against numerous souls and spirits by being able to destroy them. On top of the fact that Dark Samus' body vanishes when Samus beats her in every single fight, and add the phazon ability to control or flat out destroy souls this comparison is moot.

Those 2 facts don't naturally connect to each other, you say that as if Dark Samus being a soul too was a conclusion, but then by that logic Samus should always see and destroy Dark Samus' soul in her prior forms. Phazon can do that to souls, but there is no evidence that it did so in this case.

If the soul wasn't destroyed then Dark Samus would only exist as a literal spirit like the Chozo ghosts and would still keep on fighting Samus at the end of MP2 because of the nature of Phazon.

This are whole new powers speculated for Dark Samus to possess and speculated that it would be her only option to take. You don't know if Dark Samus would also gain the ability to survive as a soul while still having her powers to put up a fight against Samus and not mind about all the damage she just took after being defeated. You have no reason to dismiss how maybe she didn't put Phazon in her soul, or if she did, how maybe she's still defeated & stunned, or how opt to regenerate first is smarter or the only real option.

Really affect a floating soul one may see=/=affect the soul inside the body of a target or oneself, one adds layers of speculation.

Cellular regneration is from an inferior version of Metroid Prime so that's not even a point to bring up, secondly it's flat out stated her atoms were destroyed in the scan logs of Dark Samus, so it would easily check off Low godly unlike the "lower ratings" you claim to be.

Ok then, didn't see that in her profile.

Oh idk, the fact that her entire body vanished into Dark Aether where the entire dimension is deleted from existence because Samus took the last remaining thing that kept the dimension from fading into nothing? We literally see her particles fly away into the atmosphere of a dimension that's ceasing to exist and the post credits scene shows her regenerating from that level of destruction.

and again this wound was far more severe cause she not only lost all of her atoms like she did for the 3rd time but the dimension ceased to exist, meaning she came back from nothing, which would qualify for mid godly regeneration.

Is this our interpretation of what's going on or what it stated that the dimension entire dimension is deleted from existence/faced into nothing/ceased to exist?

Idk where you got the information that it's stated to be a bioessence when even Metroid Prime 2 just says it's her "essence", not bioessence,

When Dark Samus fuses with Aurora Unit 313 it's stated that it was fused with "the bioessence of Dark Samus". So if we wanted to still say that her essence is her body+soul then our take would look like this:

"Dark Samus' [body and soul] became Phazon energy, use Phazon energy to disrupt her [body and soul]. Now Dark Samus' body fused with a monster"

Rather than simply: "Dark Samus' [body] became Phazon energy, use Phazon energy to disrupt her. Now Dark Samus' body fused with a monster"

 

[Theglassman12]

Said prior forms were when either Dark Samus retreated as she was destroyed or Samus just moved on because she just blew up. Except for the fact that she used Phazon against Dark Samus at the end of MP2 in their final fight, that's the only way you defeat her, which is what caused her to go and fade away as opposed to her normal deaths which was violent explosions.

Oh I DON'T KNOW?? Despite the fact that we flat out see Dark Samus in Metroid Prime 3 as a non corporeal entity that can move around just fine with other phazon corrupted beings so your whole you don't know argument falls flat because of it. Except for the fact that Phazon corrupts the soul, that's how the chozo ghosts came to be, the chozo got corrupted down to their very soul and end up haunting the ruins despite being dead from the results of Phazon exposure. The more you're commenting on this the more I severely doubt you've played any game from the Prime Trilogy.

Again, we have proof phazon can affect souls despite being in bodies so that argument is moot.

We literally see all traces of Dark Aether no longer existing, even the dark atmosphere around normal Aether that was there because of Dark Aether's existence no longer exists because of what Samus does, so yeah, there's proof that it no longer exists otherwise that dark atmosphere around Aether would still be floating around.

Ok? What exactly does this prove here? Because I already explained to you how Dark Samus' soul would still be affected as well as her body numerous times here, especially with Phazon when Samus has access to the PED suit.

 

[Eficiente]

Said prior forms were when either Dark Samus retreated as she was destroyed or Samus just moved on because she just blew up. Except for the fact that she used Phazon against Dark Samus at the end of MP2 in their final fight, that's the only way you defeat her, which is what caused her to go and fade away as opposed to her normal deaths which was violent explosions.

You're giving this more value than what it has. You pointed out how if only Dark Samus' body was destroyed she would keep on fighting as a soul and I pointed out how 1 of the reasons that's wrong is because we don't see her soul when defeated and her body being gone before, but now it supposedly isn't the same as here she fades away and before she blew up violently. Neither of the 2 ways she dies gives us more information of how much of she is being destroyed, and if anything it makes sense that her energy-like body would fade away, but that's not the same as her soul doing so too.

Oh I DON'T KNOW?? Despite the fact that we flat out see Dark Samus in Metroid Prime 3 as a non corporeal entity that can move around just fine with other phazon corrupted beings so your whole you don't know argument falls flat because of it. Except for the fact that Phazon corrupts the soul, that's how the chozo ghosts came to be, the chozo got corrupted down to their very soul and end up haunting the ruins despite being dead from the results of Phazon exposure. The more you're commenting on this the more I severely doubt you've played any game from the Prime Trilogy.

I don't see Incorporeality in her profile. Can you show evidence that chozo/living beings got corrupted down to their very soul? That's not the same as the Soul Manip shown. Yes I haven't played those games, I see profiles, disagree with what doesn't seem to be correct and I'm suspicious with what has no evidence and appears to need a further look into, as any user should, not having played those games is just some piece of trivia.

We literally see all traces of Dark Aether no longer existing, even the dark atmosphere around normal Aether that was there because of Dark Aether's existence no longer exists because of what Samus does, so yeah, there's proof that it no longer exists otherwise that dark atmosphere around Aether would still be floating around.

This for instance is very suspicious, what stops our take of "the entire dimension of the Dark Aether was deleted from existence" to rather just be Dark Aether having gotten some lesser form of destruction? Like being in ruins, collapsing while it would be wrong to say that there is 0% of that left. It's not like some lesser destruction would still make the dark atmosphere be still there and so it had to be totally erased, there is no reason to believe that it having taking a whole lot of damage (being destroyed) wouldn't remove the dark atmosphere.

Ok? What exactly does this prove here? Because I already explained to you how Dark Samus' soul would still be affected as well as her body numerous times here, especially with Phazon when Samus has access to the PED suit.

You should have noticed that if you at least agree that "Dark Samus' [body and soul] became Phazon energy, use Phazon energy to disrupt her [body and soul]. Now Dark Samus' body fused with a monster" is a nonsensical take on what we're being told, then you agree that Dark Samus' Mid-Godly saying that she survived (bio)essence destruction is a false thing to claim. The profile should be saying what we really claim on how we see things, that her bioessence and soul what was destroyed, as that's what you're claiming. Otherwise you got users like the one shown above thinking that essence may as well mean body+soul in this context.

That ignoring the fact that even with her soul being affected, it didn't show up after her body faded away and so she could have regenerated from it.

 

[Theglassman12]

Yes, her fading away as opposed to the last two times she got her ass kicked by Samus is proof she had a different death to occur, otherwise she would just explode violently like she did the last two times she fought. No it definitely would make sense that her soul would also fade away because when anyone of the beings she possessed with Phazon appeared in Metroid Prime 3 she immediately comes out in a ghostly form to absorb their essence into herself.

Her page is outdated as with many other pages on metroid compared to more recent pages, but there's onscreen proof of her being a non corporeal being in MP3.
Also the entire chozo lore in Metroid Prime 1 has multiple statements on the chozo being corrupted by phazon and being corrupted to the point that their souls are taken over.

The entire plot point of Metroid Prime 2 of both Dark and Light Aether needing their energy source to keep their planets from disappearing forever stops your take, we can play the assumption game all day here dude, that's not gonna get anywhere, what actually boils down to is something factual, not "what if this happened instead", and what's factual is either planets without their energy source will cease to exist. Dark Aether is in another dimension, that entire dimension no longer exists thanks to what Samus has done. For proof, the entire atmosphere that's dark and destructive on Normal Aether is caused by the dimensional split of both planets, If there was some trace of Dark Aether remaining, the atmosphere would've stayed intact despite Dark Aether's destruction, but it vanished, because Dark Aether no longer exists, if you put 2 and 2 together, you'll realize that the vanishing dark atmosphere on normal Aether is a sign that Dark Aether no longer exists, further proven by the fact that no other game in the later part of the timeline ever mentions, let alone flat out shows that Dark Aether still exists.

Ok, like I said above, the pages aren't as recently edited as others, and we plan on revising the verse soon.

No that's false, Dark Samus flat out died in MP3, Samus permanently killed her to the point that none of the phazon existed, even the part of Phazon that existed inside of her body throughout the entire game.

 

[Theglassman12]

Since there’s nothing else to say here, I’m gonna close this thread.