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Dandadan speeds (particle beams)

HammerStrikes219 said:
The link used for the first Cyclotron is broken, but I do have a different source on the scientific side.



www.sciencehistory.org

Accelerating Oncology

How a machine used to create atom bombs became a tool for healing.
www.sciencehistory.org www.sciencehistory.org

“Their celebration was premature. The primate research, along with experiments from several international labs, showed that the Harvard cyclotron accelerated protons to half the speed of light”
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I've fixed the link.

That's talking about a later cyclotron, from 1938.
 
Agnaa said:
I've fixed the link.

That's talking about a later cyclotron, from 1938.
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Fair enough, and I still agree with you that particle accelerators still and can varied in speed even in the present day.

After all, it take so many experiments to even achieve results closer to SOL and all
 
Last edited:
I think again, the more important issue, is that particular accelerators aren’t about light speed at all innately to begin with. We use them for that, but the entire purpose is purely to accelerate a particular, you can do that to any speed.
 
Erm, no, cus the subject of speed is a slew of issues by itself, due to the hard speed caps given in the series.
Agnaa said:
I don't like this usage of particle beams, since particle beams inherently vary a LOT in the terms of the speeds of their particles.

The first working Cyclotron, built in 1931, brought Protons to an energy of 80 KeV. Doing some quick maths, I believe that involved accelerating them to ~36,000 m/s, close to 10,000x slower than the speed of light.

Since fundamentally, all "particle beam" means is "device that makes mass move quickly", they don't start being called that once they hit 99.99% SoL or something. I think assuming any speed is weird, and assuming a speed comparable to modern ginormous particle accelerators is very very weird.
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Do you agree with me that we should have a guide line for Particle Beam related feats (Idea from a seperate topic)
 
Please leave the discussion of proposed Particle Beam standards for a thread dedicated to that.

I think this should more stick to other Dandadan speed feats, and whether they outweigh any statements limiting speed.

(and tbh, even if we don't treat the particle beam here as calcable, I think it's probably still showing to be faster than a bullet, so it's A Feat in some sense)
 
Newendigo said:
Erm, no, cus the subject of speed is a slew of issues by itself, due to the hard speed caps given in the series.
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Which again would likely just be travel speed really and again for the most part every single arc has had numerous combat and reaction feats far faster than 100kmh, again we've got various missile, laser, and explosion dodging feats like many dozens of them consistently


Turbo granny just runs at 100kmh and can travel even faster when going through wires otherwise there are even outside of our main goons are many characters with showing outright reaching the supersonic~super+ ranges as well casually for combat feats
 
No, it would be very strange. Okarun uses All Out to push his power to the maximum, and its speed is only 100 km/hr. There are very few characters who can deal with that speed. For example, Evil Eye can't even dodge the All Out punch. If Evil Eye had a combat ability or reaction speed higher than 100 km/h, why can't he dodge it? The feats that show speeds beyond 100 km/h should be considered outliers.
 
I don’t particularly like the 100 km/hr thing. I think it’s more an issue of the artist not having much knowledge about the speed of things. We should rely more on the statement than the calculation anyway.
 
Second22 said:
No, it would be very strange. Okarun uses All Out to push his power to the maximum, and its speed is only 100 km/hr. There are very few characters who can deal with that speed. For example, Evil Eye can't even dodge the All Out punch. If Evil Eye had a combat ability or reaction speed higher than 100 km/h, why can't he dodge it? The feats that show speeds beyond 100 km/h should be considered outliers.
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I agree.
 
Dalesean027 said:
Which again would likely just be travel speed really and again for the most part every single arc has had numerous combat and reaction feats far faster than 100kmh, again we've got various missile, laser, and explosion dodging feats like many dozens of them consistently


Turbo granny just runs at 100kmh and can travel even faster when going through wires otherwise there are even outside of our main goons are many characters with showing outright reaching the supersonic~super+ ranges as well casually for combat feats
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Yeah I already gave an example of Okarun's combat speed being vastly above 100km/h, literally right when he unlocks his cursed form for the first time and blitzes the sumo alien.

Unless the sumo alien has reaction speeds far lower than a human (which makes no sense as he already blitzed Momo, a human), the statement should not cap that category, pretty obvious to me

Second22 said:
No, it would be very strange. Okarun uses All Out to push his power to the maximum, and its speed is only 100 km/hr. There are very few characters who can deal with that speed. For example, Evil Eye can't even dodge the All Out punch. If Evil Eye had a combat ability or reaction speed higher than 100 km/h, why can't he dodge it? The feats that show speeds beyond 100 km/h should be considered outliers.
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When was it stated that Okarun's speed was capped att 100 KM/H? Turbo Granny and Okarun are different people, one being cursed by the other doesn't mean the victim gets capped by the curse user, that's like saying Naruto caps at town level cause Kurama was destroying Konoha in episode 1 and Naruto uses Kurama's power. The feats being considered as "outliers" is not how the outlier section works, if there are several feats severely contradicting statements, then the statement is an outlier and you can justify atleast 3-4 speed feats in every single arc of the manga being vastly above 100km/h using human reaction speed alone. This very sentiment is why we have CW Flash at massively faster than light speeds even though they have statements capping Flash at Mach 3 (said statements are inconsistent with other statements and showings in-verse, same principle would apply here)

Furthermore, as I've alr stated before, Okarun already debunks his own speed being capped at 100km/h by implying as such when they're talking about moving through telephone lines. And even without all of these arguments, combat speed and travel speed aren't correlative
 
Saqphire said:
Yeah I already gave an example of Okarun's combat speed being vastly above 100km/h, literally right when he unlocks his cursed form for the first time and blitzes the sumo alien.

Unless the sumo alien has reaction speeds far lower than a human (which makes no sense as he already blitzed Momo, a human), the statement should not cap that category, pretty obvious to me
Click to expand...
The issue isn’t about reaction speed; in the end, Okarun’s All Out is explicitly stated to be just 100 km/h. No matter what speed feat you bring up, it can’t be applied here. I know well that many feats in the story exceed 100 km/h because I’ve calculated every page of this verse. But that doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t override the story’s official statement.
Saqphire said:
When was it stated that Okarun's speed was capped att 100 KM/H? Turbo Granny and Okarun are different people, one being cursed by the other doesn't mean the victim gets capped by the curse user, that's like saying Naruto caps at town level cause Kurama was destroying Konoha in episode 1 and Naruto uses Kurama's power. The feats being considered as "outliers" is not how the outlier section works, if there are several feats severely contradicting statements, then the statement is an outlier and you can justify atleast 3-4 speed feats in every single arc of the manga being vastly above 100km/h using human reaction speed alone. This very sentiment is why we have CW Flash at massively faster than light speeds even though they have statements capping Flash at Mach 3 (said statements are inconsistent with other statements and showings in-verse, same principle would apply here)
Click to expand...
Are you saying that Okarun is superior to Turbo Granny even though he can’t fully use Turbo Granny’s powers? Turbo Granny is stated and specified to have a speed of 100 km/h, so there’s no way Okarun could be superior.

The point is that the 100 km/h isn’t just about travel speed; his All Out mode, which he uses multiple times, is also for combat, like when he fought Evil Eye. His full power was repeatedly uppercutting Evil Eye, which is his All Out, and it’s stated to be only 100 km/h—no way it’s more than that. Or many times he reaches his maximum speed, 100 km/h, to kill enemies, and that’s his All Out or full speed. And you’re saying that his regular combat, when he’s not going full speed, is faster than 100 km/hr? That’s totally contradictory.
Saqphire said:
Furthermore, as I've alr stated before, Okarun already debunks his own speed being capped at 100km/h by implying as such when they're talking about moving through telephone lines. And even without all of these arguments, combat speed and travel speed aren't correlative
Click to expand...
In the end, the fact is that Turbo Granny stated that traveling through power lines is only 100 km/h. He might be faster through his Astral Body, which is mentioned to cross a city in just a few seconds, but that has nothing to do with his regular combat speed.
 
Second22 said:
Are you saying that Okarun is superior to Turbo Granny even though he can’t fully use Turbo Granny’s powers? Turbo Granny is stated and specified to have a speed of 100 km/h, so there’s no way Okarun could be superior.

The point is that the 100 km/h isn’t just about travel speed; his All Out mode, which he uses multiple times, is also for combat, like when he fought Evil Eye. His full power was repeatedly uppercutting Evil Eye, which is his All Out, and it’s stated to be only 100 km/h—no way it’s more than that. Or many times he reaches his maximum speed, 100 km/h, to kill enemies, and that’s his All Out or full speed. And you’re saying that his regular combat, when he’s not going full speed, is faster than 100 km/hr? That’s totally contradictory.

In the end, the fact is that Turbo Granny stated that traveling through power lines is only 100 km/h. He might be faster through his Astral Body, which is mentioned to cross a city in just a few seconds, but that has nothing to do with his regular combat speed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Okarun is stated to only be able to go faster than 100 km/hr inside the elctical cables because he's an astral body at that moment.
 
It doesn't make sense to separate travel and combat speed in this case. Because Okarun's strongest/fastest attack is when he uses 100 km/h to attack the enemy, and no one (as far as I remember) can dodge it.

Regarding the power of TG and Okarun being different, there is also no support. 100% of his power comes from TG, which is said several times to have maximum speed of around 100. The comparison with Kurama makes no sense because it is never said that his maximum power is to destroy a city. Besides, it is the power of Kurama + Naruto that makes the total power, unlike Okarun who is a "normal" human without the power of TG.
 
Characters having combat speed millions of times faster than 100km/h shouldnt be blitzed by Okarun under the vast majority of circustances yet they do. 100kh/m is for direct combat attack for all out.
 
Yeah this I fear is a case where the statement given is contradicted by every feat that actually happens in the story but is what they choose to go by ig so big rip there.


Its not like everyone doesn't have the feats as they do exist in a exceedingly large number but the Turbo Granny statement is just ******* anything beyond 100kmh which like good lord the author did not think that through at all but it is what it is

A car on the highway would just do numbers in the verse and we have to accept that😭😭💀
 
I do wonder how many feats there actually are above 100km/hr. This there a discussion thread that can be asked? I do find it funny there is an 80 km / hr feat by the author that scales to pretty much everyone yet everyone gets speed blitzed by 100.
 
I have been reading the manga since, idk, chapter 17? and I have gave up to do any kind powerscaling in this verse since the 100km/h cap

The author clarely doesn't care about powerscaling. You have the characters dodging sound attacks in a training arc and speedblizing the perception of superhuman characters with travel speed despiste the 100km/h cap, plus multiple other feats that are even above hypersonic

Its not a case like in JJK or Mashle where the cast is capped at subsonic and most of the feats are in that level, with just some exceptions which can be considered missinterpreted or just outliers. Here most of feats, even the most basic ones, are subsonic. 100km/h is such a small value that is almost impossible to have any supporting speed feat in the verse that can considered legit and not just a outlier.

You guys could go with both interpretations tho, like

"At least Superman (100km/h), likely/possible Supersonic combat speed (Calcs and such)"
 
Keeweed said:
I do wonder how many feats there actually are above 100km/hr. This there a discussion thread that can be asked? I do find it funny there is an 80 km / hr feat by the author that scales to pretty much everyone yet everyone gets speed blitzed by 100.
Click to expand...

There's a shit ton like every arc, as said above even the first feat against the sumo would be well above 100kmh since he's perception blitzing from a decent distance away.

Its like everyone would have worse than average human reactions by a decent bit
 
Dalesean027 said:
Yeah this I fear is a case where the statement given is contradicted by every feat that actually happens in the story but is what they choose to go by ig so big rip there.


Its not like everyone doesn't have the feats as they do exist in a exceedingly large number but the Turbo Granny statement is just ******* anything beyond 100kmh which like good lord the author did not think that through at all but it is what it is

A car on the highway would just do numbers in the verse and we have to accept that😭😭💀
Click to expand...
I don't like this either, as I agree that it will probably be contradicted if more calculations for speed are made.

But basically it is the central point of the power of one of the protagonists that is said at every moment of the manga.

And I don't know what the wiki's rule is when statements and deeds are consistent in contradicting each other, if the priority is that of the narrative (i.e., the 100km/h statements) or if it is the deeds themselves, disregarding this part of the narrative.
 
Yeah like if it was like said once I can understand being more willing to get rid of it, but for her it’s stated every other second pretty much lol.
 
Its the funniest thing literally for every one statement they say he's only 100kmh they have like 5 subsonic or higher feats performed but like yeah they say it too consistently despite them clearing having better feats so it's just ggs really
 
Yeah, that is some serious restrictions on the feats if the statements is too consistent to ignore in cases such as this. Also are we sure this is related to combat speed? I not exactly knowledgeable about this verse, but the statement provided by Damage gives me the impression of travel speed there as well
 
I mean the Flash TV show is in a similar thing where they gave god awful science slop statements that we ignore because very very consistently they are either outright wrong and/or are 100% blatantly contradicted to what the actual feat they are doing is.


I.e saying he mach 5 is impossible while having dodged light, lightning, and performed numerous MHS or higher feats. Or saying Mach 7 is impossible then in the same scene runs around the earth in a few seconds or some shit

For that we go by feats not statements but it's really case by case
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Also are we sure this is related to combat speed?
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If Orakun didn't use this speed in combat, I think it would be possible.

But... he uses 100km/h in combat, in the form of an attack, and this is basically his strongest/fastest attack.

So how could it only be combat speed, when Orakun's strongest/fastest blow, the "All-Out" is done using 100km/h?
 
Phsccarvalho said:
If Orakun didn't use this speed in combat, I think it would be possible.

But... he uses 100km/h in combat, in the form of an attack, and this is basically his strongest/fastest attack.

So how could it only be combat speed, when Orakun's strongest/fastest blow, the "All-Out" is done using 100km/h?
Click to expand...
If this is stated, that is some serious ridiculous cap there.
 
I think it’s best if we actually calculated the feats and see if they truly start to outweigh the statements by a ton. It could be a possibly rating.
 
I disagree with using calculated feats over the statements, especially when granny keeps bragging that 100 km/h is the top speed.
 
Yeah, I'm not in favor of wholly disregarding repeatedly stated lore like the Turbo-Granny being able to run at 100 km/hr.
 
Arkenis said:
Could their reactions not be higher at least?
Click to expand...
Even Seiko can’t react fast enough to a speed of 100 km/hr. If a character in the story has a reaction speed higher than 100 km/hr, it would still be strange. But I think it might be reasonable to allow certain giant characters to surpass 100 km/hr. Hmmm maybe
 
I just thought of something btw; why would Turbo Granny even tell Momo and co the truth about her top speed ? She's their enemy after all and considering the goals she has directly contrasts the goals the main cast has, it wouldn't make much sense for her to not lie about her speed in the off-chance they'll be fighting her again
 
Saqphire said:
I just thought of something btw; why would Turbo Granny even tell Momo and co the truth about her top speed ? She's their enemy after all and considering the goals she has directly contrasts the goals the main cast has, it wouldn't make much sense for her to not lie about her speed in the off-chance they'll be fighting her again
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Turbo Granny loves showing off her speed and is easy to be taunted in a contest of speed, lying about her speed when she's confident in it wouldn't make sense.

Btw, there's the scene where Granny's chasing the train and Momo says she can't catch up yet her jumping lets her, would this not show that its mostly travel speed and not overall?
 
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