Cyberstalking

[Sera_EX]

I've noticed there's been some cases of members adding other members or staff on social media (of any kind) without their permission. This can be potentially dangerous, especially if it's something private (perhaps a Facebook) where personal information is. Yes, this is the internet so we must he responsible and protect ourselves but it's different when someone can just find you and think it's okay to just add you/message you or whatever.

Now if you are good friends with someone, you can talk to them wherever you want. But to just add someone on Steam without their permission, follow someone on Twitter without their permission, etc. is different. We have message walls and staff have ff.net accounts. If we wish to communicate outside these means that is our choice, but at least ask for permission. Someone asked me to add them on Facebook but after they already spent hours trying to find me via search.

As human beings on the internet, we can be all over the place. Be it another wiki, Discord, some other vs community site, or Google Hangouts. However one should ask permisso before even considering of doing so outside those barriers.

This worries me because we have cyberstalkers already "patrolling" our wiki and I find it weird that this is happening but no one brought it up yet. This isn't just one person doing this.

What do you all think about this?

 

[Promestein]

I absolutely agree.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I'd prefer if people ask me for permission before adding me anywhere. I'd also consider it nice if people didn't try to find me on things such as FB, Twitter etc. because it's very private.

I don't mind talking via FF.net but anywhere else is a serious no no unless I'm comfortable talking to you and I give you permissio to do so.

TL;DR I agree wholeheartedly about asking permission first above all else.

 

[Eroij]

Why was my reply removed? It's a serious question, I need to know how people are able to find out what my name is.

 

[Lina_Shields]

If you are having serious concerns about people finding you on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, etc, you are better off not mentioning/hinting that you have an account there at all. Anything else is just going make people curious to find more about you, really.

It would be smart to keep your FB/Youtube/etc a secret if you don't want people finding more about it.

 

[Promestein]

You don't have to say anything about that for people to look for you there.

 

[Eroij]

So basically people are somehow able to track me down without me even giving any information about me, but simply by having an account and posting ?

 

[VenomElite]

@Eroji message me on my wall, we can talk there. This is a staff only thread, sorry.

For what purpose would someone read your Twitter 24/7 if it isn't anything wikia related?

Change your privacy settings? Shouldn't have to do that if it's already set up privately to suit my everyday needs. No one can see my friends list on Facebook. Doesn't mean make everything private because somebody decided to keep going to my profile to see what I'm doing in my personal life. (For the record I actually share some of this with you anyway so it's not like I'm against it).

 

[Sera_EX]

Well LordAizenSama, The Everlasting, Matthew Schroeder, and others in chat disagree.

 

[VenomElite]

Is it so hard to simply ask someone permission? I'd love to hear their arguments on this thread. Because they seem to confusing simple usage of social media and potential cyberstalking.

 

[VenomElite]

If you go to my sister's twitter and read her tweets. Fine. But if you start saving her pictures to your computer and start posting them all over the internet or on wikis or whatever, it becomes a much bigger deal. Am I making this clear? I don't want to confuse anyone.

We are well aware of that possibility. That is not the issue. We'e focusing on our borders. As in people of this wiki, not someone out in web because then, the possibilities are endless.

 

[Sera_EX]

Can we just close this? It's going nowhere...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

First of all, it's pathetic that people were pushed and pressured into closing a serious discussion by others who simply weren't willing to have a conversation.

Aside from that, I will give my thoughts on the matter:

Firstly, we need to create a distinction between following / liking someone online, and actual stalking. After all, people have social medias, and things such as Twitter and Instagram are created to be public. Should you follow someone on either, or even subscribe to people on youtube, you are accompanying someone's life, even if just a slight slice of it, but often daily and dedicatedly.

This is not stalking, however. In all ocassions, the user of such websites has willingly shared and published all the content relating to themselves in their account. Watching Pewdiepie on youtube daily, or following J.K Rowling or Neil Gaiman on twitter, and as a result learning a whole large deal about their lives, is not the same as stalking them.

A stalker would be someone who would go actively out of their way to search for the person they are stalking online, across all social media and websites possible. Of course, the line blurs with incredibly famous figures, like the three I mentioned, but it is very clear cut with common people.

With the matter of Sera Loveheart herself, she willingly shares certain aspects of her life, talks about it openly, and has no problem mentioning that she has private accounts on Facebook on whatnot. And if she wants to remain anonymous on most of the internet, while also being open to a smaller circle of people, she has all the right to do so. And if she wishes to share more about herself, or her family with people she trusts more, either through pictures, videos and whatnot, that is also 100% okay.

What is not okay would be if I simply saved every picture that Sera showed me, stalked her every message on wikis, and also did extensive research online until I found her private facebook account, and without her knowing also followed it, and then at a later date exposed all of this to everyone. That would be stalking. It is my responsibility as a friend to respond to Sera's trust and privacy, rather than maniacally ignoring it and pushing even further.

And this is not an issue merely of Sera, a lot of people here have suffered this. Antvasima is very much aware of a certain individual who likely keeps Ant on his thoughts 24/7, given his nearly daily stalking of Antvasima and our wiki as a whole. Stalking can also be done with authors on twitter, such as when Hideki Kamiya was being bombarded by Vs.Debating questions following the release of Screwattack's Dante Vs Bayonetta video, and more recently the same happened with Jin Haganeya.

Do I have a solution for it? Not really, but I won't deny that it is something that deserves awareness / importance, and that we as a community should discourage and reprimand this type of behavior with extreme prejudice. It's not something we can control, yes, but it is worth discussing.

Oh, one more thing: I won't pretend that it is the victim's fault for having social medias in the first place, because that is one of the most fallacious things you could ever say. It'd be akin to affirming that if you had your car stolen, that it was your fault for owning one, or that if you were robbed, it was your fault to have left home with your wallet, or that if you were ran over by a car it was your fault to have crossed the street.

 

[Promestein]

If you are having serious concerns about people finding you on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, etc, you are better off not mentioning/hinting that you have an account there at all. Anything else is just going make people curious to find more about you, really.

It would be smart to keep your FB/Youtube/etc a secret if you don't want people finding more about it.

Now that this has been reopened...

This argument makes no sense to me.

People should be able to mention that they have a twitter, or Facebook, or whatever. That doesn't matter; people who creep around and seek out other people's social media are the issue here. I haven't ever mentioned any of my social media here, as far as I can remember, and people from this wikia have tried to find pictures of me and my social media before. It'll happen whether you mention social media or not.

You may as well say that if you don't want to get followed home you shouldn't mention that you have a home. The person who's doing the stalking is the person who's in the wrong here.

There's not much else to say here; I agree with everything that Matt has said.

 

[Antvasima]

That is true, BeyonderGod seems absolutely obsessed with me and this wiki, and has harrassed, and incited hatred towards us for 3 years running, including publicly exposing my Twitter address.

He also sent me a few threats on Twitter, after being warned by Wikia's staff to leave me alone, but deleted them afterwards.

 

[VenomElite]

It is a matter of trust and willingness to share with others. The six-seven people Sera and I have added to a Google Hangouts chat are our most trusted friends on the internet. I can share a picture without feeling like they will be stolen. I can tell them about my life and vice versa. Instead of being caught up in nonsensical accusations of paranoia, instead we should look deeper into the situation.

We know what kind of people our wiki attracts. To deny so would be ludicrous. We've had stalkers and hackers. Therefore it is imperative we protect ourselves while at the same time, maintain the ability to be open to our beloved friends. A simple matter of permission should not be dismissed under any circunstances. Yes you could reject friend requests but who is stop that person from stalking your page? Sera has over 4,000 friends on Facebook. She can't add anymore and on top of that she has two of them. Both with maxed out friends count. It is redundant to tell her to change her privacy settings just because someone on wikia is trying to stalk her. We have our privacy locked to the best of our ability to suit our individual needs as I posted above. And the use of said social media is for communication with family, co workers, friends, etc. Not people of this wiki. And mentioning one does have such social media does not change that.

Using Sera as an example again, she is very well liked and many people favor her. Who is stop someone from harassing Sera about translations or reading some manga offsite where she doesn't remotely speak or think of these things? When done in excess, it becomes harassment.

 

[Lina_Shields]

People should be able to mention that they have a twitter, or Facebook, or whatever. That doesn't matter; people who creep around and seek out other people's social media are the issue here.

What I meant was that even if you have a Twitter, or Facebook, it is your responsibility to share that exact link to the person in question, or not. People who are going to actively hound your Twitter/Facebook even though they don't know what the actual link is are going to be few and between anyways.

So you can say that you have Facebook/Twitter/etc, but just don't share the exact address unless you are comfortable with sharing it.

But anyways, a rule should be proposed in regards to cyberstalking, if it is turning out to be harassment:

• Please do not make an excessive attempt to actively find/stalk any of the members here on the Wiki through Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, etc. or harass them in order for them to share their personal info. This will be considered an invasion of privacy on your part, and it will be met with the appropriate consequences.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with adding a rule, as Lina suggested.

 

[Promestein]

That rule sounds fine.

 

[Antvasima]

I can add it, if everybody are okay with it.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I have added it to the Site Rules page.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Kavpeny]

Agree with the premise, and solution (the rule) as well.